How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Harel13]

Psalm 82:6 saying I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High, is talking about while leaders are considered gods by the people, they are still under God's control. This doesn't change that Isaiah 9:6 calling the Messiah mighty God is a reference to the Messiah being God.

So in your version of Hebrew there are uppercase and lowercase letters?

 

[Skywalker]

So in your version of Hebrew there are uppercase and lowercase letters?

Psalm 82:6 was originally written in Hebrew. Hebrew differentiates between the one true God and idols.

 

[Harel13]

Psalm 82:6 was originally written in Hebrew. Hebrew differentiates between the one true God and idols.

Evidence?

 

[Skywalker]

Evidence?

Hebrew differentiates the one true God with lowercase gods. This supports the difference between the spelling God and gods. Psalm 82:1-8 - why is ELOHIM used differently during these verses?

Verses 6-7 speak of multiple gods because it uses plural pronouns (אַתֶּם) and verbs (תְּמוּתוּן, תִּפֹּלוּ): "You (plural) are gods"; "you will die (plural) ... you will fall (plural)."

אֲֽנִי־אָ֭מַרְתִּי אֱלֹהִ֣ים אַתֶּ֑ם וּבְנֵ֖י עֶלְי֣וֹן כֻּלְּכֶֽם׃ אָ֭כֵן כְּאָדָ֣ם תְּמוּת֑וּן וּכְאַחַ֖ד הַשָּׂרִ֣ים תִּפֹּֽלוּ׃

Verse 8 uses singular verbs (קוּמָה, שָׁפְטָה, תִנְחַל ) and pronouns (אַתָּה), and so it speaks of one God: "Rise (singular) ... judge (singular) ... you (singular) will inherit (singular)."

 

[Harel13]

Hebrew differentiates the one true God with lowercase gods. This supports the difference between the spelling God and gods.

Yes, there are singular and plural forms in Hebrew. What's your point?

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, there are singular and plural forms in Hebrew. What's your point?

God refers to the one true God. gods refer to idols. That same concept exists in Hebrew. That shows that Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6 is a reference to the Messiah.

 

[Harel13]

God refers to the one true God. gods refer to idols. That same concept exists in Hebrew. That shows that Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6 is a reference to the Messiah.

Evidence?

 

[Skywalker]

Evidence?

I mentioned on post 2224 how God and god having a differentiation has a Hebrew equivalent. That shows that mighty God in Isaiah 9:6 is a reference to the Messiah.

 

[Harel13]

I mentioned on post 2224 how God and god having a differentiation has a Hebrew equivalent.

No, what you brought pointed out the differences between plural and singular. The bold words were the plural and singular words, not the term referring to God,

 

[Rival]

I mentioned on post 2224 how God and god having a differentiation has a Hebrew equivalent. That shows that mighty God in Isaiah 9:6 is a reference to the Messiah.

So I call my God 'God' but He's not from the same religion at all.

Is He the same God?

 

[Skywalker]

No, what you brought pointed out the differences between plural and singular. The bold words were the plural and singular words, not the term referring to God,

Plural and singular words have to do with the lowercase gods, or idols that people have.

 

[dybmh]

That says: "If you do well, will it not be lifted up? If you don't do well, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it."

...nothing about salvation. But, perhaps you have some different meaning for salvation.

Salvation is described in the verse as ruling over sin

I have understood it means one’s sins are forgiven and so person is saved from the judgment that would come because of sin.

This is absolution not salvation because it doesn't prevent future sin.

 

[Harel13]

Plural and singular words have to do with the lowercase gods, or idols that people have.

So Moses and the people in Psalms are idols?

 

[Skywalker]

So I call my God 'God' but He's not from the same religion at all.

Is He the same God?

Judaism believes in God the Father.

 

[Rival]

Judaism believes in God the Father.

But if I call my God 'God', and the Jews call their God 'God', and the Christians call their God 'God', and the Muslims call their God 'God' is it the same God? I mean the word is exactly the same, right?

 

[Skywalker]

But if I call my God 'God', and the Jews call their God 'God', and the Christians call their God 'God', and the Muslims call their God 'God' is it the same God? I mean the word is exactly the same, right?

The essence of who God is matters. Calling God 'God' is different from the character of who God is. Judaism and Islam reject the belief of the Messiah is God.

 

[Rival]

The essence of who God is matters. Calling God 'God' is different from the character of who God is. Judaism and Islam reject the belief of the Messiah is God.

And you realise that in Hebrew the word for God and false gods, judges etc. can be the same, right?

 

[Skywalker]

And you realise that in Hebrew the word for God and false gods, judges etc. can be the same, right?

That doesn't mean that the essence of those beings is the same. Judaism believes in a Messiah but they believe he is a political figure and not God.

 

[Rival]

That doesn't mean that the essence of those beings is the same. Judaism believes in a Messiah but they believe he is a political figure and not God.

Exactly, so you need to stop conflating things and making up things that aren't there. There are no capitals in Hebrew at all. There is no difference between 'God' and 'god'.

 

[Skywalker]

Exactly, so you need to stop conflating things and making up things that aren't there. There are no capitals in Hebrew at all. There is no difference between 'God' and 'god'.

The differentiation between God and gods in Hebrew exists, without the capitals.