How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[shunyadragon]

As a thought experiment, if we imagine that the Scriptures did actually deviate from the original writings with the creation of the Masoretic Text, what evidence would convince you? What would be the proof you would require?

Specific comparative references from both that demonstrate deliberate changes to effect and change the text concerning prophecies.

As far as I am concerned it was the Christians that selectively changed text to justify the traditional Christian beliefs.

 

[Skywalker]

Simply not. Unity in terms of Adonai, Elohim or any other reference is One and only One God.

Terrible unethical corruption of the use of the Hebrew Yachid vs. Echad. In number there is only One.

The Old Testament never mentions God is one in the context of solitary oneness. The term for solitary oneness is yachid. Echad is the term for oneness used in the Tanakh verse Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear O Israel, Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one."

 

[shunyadragon]

The Old Testament never mentions God is one in the context of solitary oneness. The term for solitary oneness is yachid. Echad is the term for oneness used in the Tanakh verse Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear O Israel, Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one."

It still remains, that God is One and Only One in Yahweh, solitary Oneness, which is the synonymous with Adonai and Elohim for God.

Again, again and again the proper translation in Hebrew of Adonai, Elohim is singular One and only One God.

 

[Skywalker]

It still remains, that God is One and Only One in Yahweh, solitary Oneness, which is the synonymous with Adonai and Elohim for God.

Yahweh is one, meaning echad. Yahweh is never called yachid in the Bible.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yahweh is one, meaning echad. Yahweh is never called yachid in the Bible.

Yahweh does not have to called Echad to be the literal fact that the use in Hebrew the One and only One God had the titles Yahweh, Adonai or Echad.

Again, again and again the proper translation in Hebrew of Adonai, Elohim is singular One and only One God.

 

[Skywalker]

Yahweh does not have to called Echad to be the literal fact that the use in Hebrew the One and only One God had the titles Yahweh, Adonai or Echad.

Again, again and again the proper translation in Hebrew of Adonai, Elohim is singular One and only One God.

Yahweh and Adonai are not inconsistent with Deuteronomy 6:4 saying the Lord is one, has the term echad in it.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yahweh and Adonai are not inconsistent with Deuteronomy 6:4 saying the Lord is one, has the term echad in it.

No they are not, Ask the Jews. The Tanakh is their text and Hebrew is their language, and their text not yours.

 

[Skywalker]

No they are not, Ask the Jews. The Tanakh is their text and Hebrew is their language, and their text not yours.

The Hebrew word echad, not yachid, is used in Deuteronomy 6:4-9

 

[shunyadragon]

The Hebrew word echad, not yachid, is used in Deuteronomy 6:4-9

Ask the Jews. The Tanakh is their text and Hebrew is their language, and their text not yours.

You not need to use the word 'unity' if there is On and Only One Monotheistic Gof. Nothing to unite.

 

[Skywalker]

Ask the Jews. The Tanakh is their text and Hebrew is their language, and their text not yours.

You not need to use the word 'unity' if there is On and Only One Monotheistic Gof. Nothing to unite.

Deuteronomy 6:4-9 has the word echad that means unity, but echad doesn't mean unity as in solitary oneness.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... echad doesn't mean unity as in solitary oneness.

Let me guess: you're a Christian Biblical Hebrew scholar. Right?

 

[shunyadragon]

The Hebrew word echad, not yachid, is used in Deuteronomy 6:4-9

Ask the Jews. The Tanakh is their text and Hebrew is their language, and their text not yours.

 

[Skywalker]

Ask the Jews. The Tanakh is their text and Hebrew is their language, and their text not yours.

The term yachid, which implies solitary unity, is not used in Deuteronomy 6:4-9. Trinity: Oneness in unity not in number: Yachid vs. Echad

Yachid vs. Echad: The most important verse Jews memorized in the Bible was Deut 6:4: "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [Echad]!" There are a few words in Hebrew that the Holy Spirit could have used a word the has one exclusive meaning: the numeric, solitary oneness of God ("yachid" or "bad").

 

[Harel13]

Let me guess: you're a Christian Biblical Hebrew scholar. Right?

Welcome back @Jayhawker Soule! Happy Pesach.

 

[shunyadragon]

The term yachid, which implies solitary unity, is not used in Deuteronomy 6:4-9. Trinity: Oneness in unity not in number: Yachid vs. Echad

Implies?!?!?!

Ask the Jews. The Tanakh is their text and Hebrew is their language, and their text not yours.

 

[dybmh]

The Old Testament never mentions God is one in the context of solitary oneness.

Yes there is...

Solitary.

Deuteronomy 32:39

New International Version
"See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.

New Living Translation
Look now; I myself am he! There is no other god but me! I am the one who kills and gives life; I am the one who wounds and heals; no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!

English Standard Version
“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Berean Study Bible
See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

King James Bible
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

New King James Version
‘Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

New American Standard Bible
‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can save anyone from My hand.

NASB 1995
'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

NASB 1977
‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

Amplified Bible
‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and I who give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from [the power of] My hand.

Christian Standard Bible
See now that I alone am he; there is no God but me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal. No one can rescue anyone from my power.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
See now that I alone am He; there is no God but Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal. No one can rescue anyone from My hand.

American Standard Version
See now that I, even I, am he, And there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; And there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Behold, behold that I am he, and there is no god beside me: I kill, and I will make to live: I will smite, and I will heal; and there is none who shall deliver out of my hands.

Contemporary English Version
Don't you understand? I am the only God; there are no others. I am the one who takes life and gives it again. I punished you with suffering. But now I will heal you, and nothing can stop me!

Douay-Rheims Bible
See ye that I alone am, and there is no other God besides me: I will kill and I will make to live: I will strike, and I will heal, and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

English Revised Version
See now that I, even I, am he, And there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I have wounded, and I heal: And there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Good News Translation
"'I, and I alone, am God; no other god is real. I kill and I give life, I wound and I heal, and no one can oppose what I do.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
See, I am the only God. There are no others. I kill, and I make alive. I wound, and I heal, and no one can rescue you from my power.

International Standard Version
"Look now! I AM, and there is no other god besides me. I myself cause death and I sustain life; I wound severely and I also heal; from my power no one can deliver.

JPS Tanakh 1917
See now that I, even I, am He, And there is no god with Me; I kill, and I make alive; I have wounded, and I heal; And there is none that can deliver out of My hand.

Literal Standard Version
See, now, that I [am] He, "" And there is no god besides Me; I put to death and I keep alive; I have struck and I heal; And there is not a deliverer from My hand,

NET Bible
"See now that I, indeed I, am he!" says the LORD, "and there is no other god besides me. I kill and give life, I smash and I heal, and none can resist my power.

New Heart English Bible
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god besides me. I kill, and I make alive. I wound, and I heal; and there is no one who can deliver out of my hand.

World English Bible
"See now that I, even I, am he, There is no god with me. I kill, and I make alive. I wound, and I heal. There is no one who can deliver out of my hand.

Young's Literal Translation
See ye, now, that I -- I am He, And there is no god with Me: I put to death, and I keep alive; I have smitten, and I heal; And there is not from My hand a deliverer,

 

[Skywalker]

Yes there is...

Solitary.

Deuteronomy 32:39

New International Version
"See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.

New Living Translation
Look now; I myself am he! There is no other god but me! I am the one who kills and gives life; I am the one who wounds and heals; no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!

English Standard Version
“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Berean Study Bible
See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

King James Bible
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

New King James Version
‘Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

New American Standard Bible
‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can save anyone from My hand.

NASB 1995
'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

NASB 1977
‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

Amplified Bible
‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and I who give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from [the power of] My hand.

Christian Standard Bible
See now that I alone am he; there is no God but me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal. No one can rescue anyone from my power.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
See now that I alone am He; there is no God but Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal. No one can rescue anyone from My hand.

American Standard Version
See now that I, even I, am he, And there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; And there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Behold, behold that I am he, and there is no god beside me: I kill, and I will make to live: I will smite, and I will heal; and there is none who shall deliver out of my hands.

Contemporary English Version
Don't you understand? I am the only God; there are no others. I am the one who takes life and gives it again. I punished you with suffering. But now I will heal you, and nothing can stop me!

Douay-Rheims Bible
See ye that I alone am, and there is no other God besides me: I will kill and I will make to live: I will strike, and I will heal, and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

English Revised Version
See now that I, even I, am he, And there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I have wounded, and I heal: And there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Good News Translation
"'I, and I alone, am God; no other god is real. I kill and I give life, I wound and I heal, and no one can oppose what I do.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
See, I am the only God. There are no others. I kill, and I make alive. I wound, and I heal, and no one can rescue you from my power.

International Standard Version
"Look now! I AM, and there is no other god besides me. I myself cause death and I sustain life; I wound severely and I also heal; from my power no one can deliver.

JPS Tanakh 1917
See now that I, even I, am He, And there is no god with Me; I kill, and I make alive; I have wounded, and I heal; And there is none that can deliver out of My hand.

Literal Standard Version
See, now, that I [am] He, "" And there is no god besides Me; I put to death and I keep alive; I have struck and I heal; And there is not a deliverer from My hand,

NET Bible
"See now that I, indeed I, am he!" says the LORD, "and there is no other god besides me. I kill and give life, I smash and I heal, and none can resist my power.

New Heart English Bible
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god besides me. I kill, and I make alive. I wound, and I heal; and there is no one who can deliver out of my hand.

World English Bible
"See now that I, even I, am he, There is no god with me. I kill, and I make alive. I wound, and I heal. There is no one who can deliver out of my hand.

Young's Literal Translation
See ye, now, that I -- I am He, And there is no god with Me: I put to death, and I keep alive; I have smitten, and I heal; And there is not from My hand a deliverer,

The term echad in Deuteronomy 6:4 doesn't imply solitary unity. Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Plurality in the Old Testament

Our examination of the use of plurals is not intended to stand on its own, that these plurals by themselves are sufficient enough to prove that God is a multi-Personal Being. Instead, the biblical use of plurals is intended to supplement the evidence already presented which conclusively demonstrates that the God revealed in both the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Scriptures is tri-Personal.

Basically, the existence of such plurals is actually what we would expect to find if the Bible does present a Triune God. In other words, if our arguments regarding there being more than one Divine Person existing as God are exegetically sound, then it should not come as a surprise to find the Holy Bible speaking of God in the plural, i.e. we would expect to find plural nouns, verbs, adjectives being used for God to denote the fact that he is a multi-Personal Being.

Someone may interject and claim that these plurals would actually prove that there are multiple Gods, not multiple Persons of God. This would be a valid objection had it not been for the fact that the Bible clearly and emphatically teaches that there is only one God (cf. Deuteronomy 32:39; Isaiah 37:16, 20; 46:9-11; Mark 12:29-32; John 5:44, 17:3; Romans 3:30; Galatians 3:20, 4:8; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19). What this suggests is that the Bible writers used plurals, not because they intended to convey the notion that there is more than one God, but because they were trying to communicate the truth that God exists as multiple Persons. They communicated this divinely revealed truth by expressing it in the thought patterns and categories of the Hebrew language.

 

[dybmh]

The term echad in Deuteronomy 6:4 doesn't imply solitary unity

You're choosing to ignore the solitary unity of Deuteronomy 32:39. "there is no god with me".

Also Isaiah 45:5. " I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me"

 

[metis]

I was commenting on the belief that Christmas and Easter are modeled around Roman and European pagan holidays. I meant in an earlier post that Christmas being based off Saturnalia doesn't mean that the New Testament is pagan, because the first Christians didn't celebrate Christmas or Easter and they were like Messianic Jews.

But it simply is a lie to contend that Christmas was "based off Saturnalia", and repeating that lie doesn't miraculously make it the Truth.

 

[rosends]

You're choosing to ignore the solitary unity of Deuteronomy 32:39. "there is no god with me".

Also Isaiah 45:5. " I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me"

there was an entire thread on "What does one mean" in which this idea of "solitary" vs. "compound" unity is blasted to heck. This is all reruns...