How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

Also God shows up to Manoach, and is a flame in the bush, and also a voice from Mt. Sinai. I just doubled your "trinity". I can find more if you want.

The voice from Mount Sinai was the Angel of the Lord.

 

[Skywalker]

As long as you rercognize that the person is a singular. The person is in the position of "Elohim"demonstrating that Elohim is a singular. Thanks.

What from the context of the verses about Elohim show the singular and not plural version of the term?

 

[YoursTrue]

The fullness of the Godhead dwelling in Jesus supports the doctrine of the hypostatic union. Similar to during the baptism of Jesus, God manifested himself to humanity as the Godhead. Who is God?

You're using philosophy to substantiate your deeply entrenched theory. A voice was heard from heaven at Jesus baptism. Jesus was the son of God and the son of Mary. Adam was also the son of God. Thank God for the Bible. And for holy spirit with understanding. Jesus said that he came from the realms above. He never said he was part of a group of godpersons called the trinity.

 

[Skywalker]

You're using philosophy to substantiate your deeply entrenched theory. A voice was heard from heaven at Jesus baptism. Jesus was the son of God and the son of Mary. Adam was also the son of God. Thank God for the Bible. And for holy spirit with understanding. Jesus said that he came from the realms above. He never said he was part of a group of godpersons called the trinity.

Do you think Jesus was an angel or self existing junior deity? There are no Bible verses to support that doctrine.

 

[dybmh]

Moses wrote the book of Genesis.

It doesn't matter. Any multiplicty in the divine creation process was not worshipped by Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob. That was the entire point of Jewish monotheism. Abraham looked at the natural world and determined that there was a higher power ruling over all the other mighty forces of nature. Note that forces is plural.

Worshipping the multiplicity of the mighty forces in the Genesis creation story is a down-grade from Jewish Monotheism developed by Abraham and practiced by Jewish people. Like I said before. Anytime in Tanach the God of Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob is referenced, it is singular. Asking a Jewish person to look for implied multiplicity in God based on the Genesis story is asking a a Jewish person to deny Jewish monotheism. You can stop using Gen 1 to make your case now. It's never going to work. You're preaching a reversal of Jewish Monotheism.

The Angel of the Lord appearing to the parents of Samson is an example of Jesus in the Old Testament.

I doubt it. If you want to discuss it, please bring the verses and show me where Jesus is mentioned.

Just because rabbis don't think Jesus was the Messiah doesn't mean that believing in Jesus is idolatry.

As far as I know, that's True. But it is apostasy. For a person in today's world to believe in Christ as the Jewish Messiah is only possible if a person is ignorant or denies Torah.

I believe that the Antichrist will be a false Messiah who will influence people to worship idols.

I hear you, and that's a very good reason for Jewish people to reject Jesus. Jesus is a false messiah.

 

[Skywalker]

It doesn't matter. Any multiplicty in the divine creation process was not worshipped by Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob. That was the entire point of Jewish monotheism. Abraham looked at the natural world and determined that there was a higher power ruling over all the other mighty forces of nature. Note that forces is plural.

Worshipping the multiplicity of the mighty forces in the Genesis creation story is a down-grade from Jewish Monotheism developed by Abraham and practiced by Jewish people. Like I said before. Anytime in Tanach the God of Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob is referenced, it is singular. Asking a Jewish person to look for implied multiplicity in God based on the Genesis story is asking a a Jewish person to deny Jewish monotheism. You can stop using Gen 1 to make your case now. It's never going to work. You're preaching a reversal of Jewish Monotheism.
I doubt it. If you want to discuss it, please bring the verses and show me where Jesus is mentioned.

As far as I know, that's True. But it is apostasy. For a person in today's world to believe in Christ as the Jewish Messiah is only possible if a person is ignorant or denies Torah.

I hear you, and that's a very good reason for Jewish people to reject Jesus. Jesus is a false messiah.

Everyone knows from creation that there is one God. The Trinity is the details of who God is. Abraham not reading the details of Genesis during worshipping God doesn't mean that those details don't hint towards the Trinity.

Christians refer to God in the singular too. Abraham didn't talk about the Trinity because of progressive revelation. The verses in the New Testament that talk about the Trinity came in later. The Trinity doesn't contradict monotheism because all polytheists know that there is one God but they suppress it.

Just because the rabbis interpret the verses about Jesus in a certain way it doesn't mean that believing in Jesus is apostasy or rejecting the Torah or the Tanakh.

I believe that those who reject Jesus and believe in other Messiahs will accept the coming Antichrist and one world religion.

 

[YoursTrue]

The voice from Mount Sinai was the Angel of the Lord.

I think you're getting your lords mixed up.f

God does everything with an order and a purpose. Why would there be a need for all members of the Trinity to incarnate?

Jesus became the son of man. As a man, he could not escape from his flesh. Therefore...he was not e----l to his Father. This so-called "hypostatic union" just doesn't work.

 

[Skywalker]

I think you're getting your lords mixed up.f

Jesus became the son of man. As a man, he could not escape from his flesh. Therefore...he was not e----l to his Father. This so-called "hypostatic union" just doesn't work.

Jesus being the son of man and the son of God are not mutually exclusive. Jesus not being able to escape from his flesh is why God incarnating is possible.

 

[YoursTrue]

Everyone knows from creation that there is one God. The Trinity is the details of who God is. Abraham not reading the details of Genesis during worshipping God doesn't mean that those details don't hint towards the Trinity.
...

You may say there are three persons comprising one God, all three persons equal and being one God, but nothing in the Bible substantiates that idea.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus being the son of man and the son of God are not mutually exclusive. Jesus not being able to escape from his flesh is why God incarnating is possible.

lol, "God incarnating..." Go back to the an angel speaking as if God, ok?

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus being the son of man and the son of God are not mutually exclusive. Jesus not being able to escape from his flesh is why God incarnating is possible.

Was Adam called a son of God?

 

[Skywalker]

lol, "God incarnating..." Go back to the an angel speaking as if God, ok?

The angel of the Lord is consistent with Jesus being the son of God in the Trinity, because angel means messenger. Jesus in the New Testament came down to people, not God the Father.

 

[Skywalker]

Was Adam called a son of God?

It means a child of God.

 

[dybmh]

Why would an angel tell Moses I am? I am is a reference to the self existing eternal Godhead.

From what I can tell, this happens frequently in the text. Angels speak on behalf of God. It's no biggie.

 

[YoursTrue]

The angel of the Lord is consistent with Jesus being the son of God in the Trinity, because angel means messenger. Jesus in the New Testament came down to people, not God the Father.

To be honest and frank with you, nothing in the trinity theory makes sense. Trinitarians themselves say it's a mystery, don't they? I'd rather go with what I understand in the Bible to say and intimate. Go back to the beginning. "Let us make man in our image." To trinitarians that means three persons, always there, without beginning, were probably talking at the same time to themselves, itself, or each other. But it doesn't necessarily mean that. See, I'm giving you clues.

 

[Skywalker]

To be honest and frank with you, nothing in the trinity theory makes sense. Trinitarians themselves say it's a mystery, don't they? I'd rather go with what I understand in the Bible to say and intimate. Go back to the beginning. "Let us make man in our image." To trinitarians that means three persons, always there, without beginning, were probably talking at the same time to themselves, itself, or each other. But it doesn't necessarily mean that. See, I'm giving you clues.

Why would Jesus say let us make man in our image if he was a junior deity?

 

[Skywalker]

From what I can tell, this happens frequently in the text. Angels speak on behalf of God. It's no biggie.

There is no verse in Exodus that makes a distinction between the angel of the Lord and God. Gabriel spoke to Mary, for God, in the New Testament.

 

[YoursTrue]

It means a child of God.

Oh ... you think it doesn't mean that Adam was a SON OF GOD?
Anyway, son means son. It means the son CAME FROM, was given life BY his father. Adam lost out by being disobedient and unthankful . Jesus did not. One son was faithful and loyal. The other was not.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why would Jesus say let us make man in our image if he was a junior deity?

Why would you say it was Jesus who said it?
A son can love his father, and a father can love his son.
Before Adam was created, there were no humans.

 

[YoursTrue]

There is no verse in Exodus that makes a distinction between the angel of the Lord and God. Gabriel spoke to Mary, for God, in the New Testament.

I would like to ask you something at this point. Depending on translation you like and use, what does LORD in capital letters stand for?