How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[YoursTrue]

There is no verse in Exodus that makes a distinction between the angel of the Lord and God. Gabriel spoke to Mary, for God, in the New Testament.

Are you saying that angels can be God????

 

[Skywalker]

I would like to ask you something at this point. Depending on translation you like and use, what does LORD in capital letters stand for?

Yahweh, the Triune God.

 

[Skywalker]

Are you saying that angels can be God????

The angel of the Lord was the title the Son of God used in the Old Testament. Jesus is not Michael the archangel.

 

[Skywalker]

Why would you say it was Jesus who said it?
A son can love his father, and a father can love his son.
Before Adam was created, there were no humans.

Jesus is a member of the Triune Godhead of Yahweh.

Jesus can be the everlasting Father because all fathers are also sons.

If Jesus was a mere man with authority given by God, how could he have existed before Adam?

 

[Skywalker]

Oh ... you think it doesn't mean that Adam was a SON OF GOD?
Anyway, son means son. It means the son CAME FROM, was given life BY his father. Adam lost out by being disobedient and unthankful . Jesus did not. One son was faithful and loyal. The other was not.

A believer is a son or a daughter of God.

What do you mean Jesus was given life by the Father? Jesus was God the Son. Son also has titles not related to being God's creation. Lucifer is called the son of the morning.

Adam never said anything like I and the Father are one.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yahweh, the Triune God.

NEVER SAYS "YAHWEH THE TRIUNE GOD." Unfortunately you made that up to justify yourself, just like others do when explaining scripture or interpretations. Never implies it, but apparently to you and other trinitarians, it does. It's sad, you are showing me many things, because you are moving away from knowledge and reality.
But It DOES mean that LORD in capital letters is the coverup by misleading translators for YHWH as demonstrated in the holy scriptures. Yahweh, or Jehovah is not spelled as Jesus. In English, Greek, or Hebrew. Lord is an entirely different Hebrew word from YHWH.

 

[Skywalker]

You're using philosophy to substantiate your deeply entrenched theory. A voice was heard from heaven at Jesus baptism. Jesus was the son of God and the son of Mary. Adam was also the son of God. Thank God for the Bible. And for holy spirit with understanding. Jesus said that he came from the realms above. He never said he was part of a group of godpersons called the trinity.

Do you think Jesus being born of a virgin is why He is the Son of God? Muslims believe that Jesus was born of a virgin but they reject the term the Son of God. Adam was not born of a virgin. Jesus came from the realms above and he was not a junior deity. During the baptism of Jesus the Son and Spirit were seen together.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I don't know what it means to you, but it means to me that God gave Jesus the name above all other names. Taken in context, if Jesus is God, do you think he give himself as an equal to God or one of the godpersons the name above other names?

In the light of Philippians 2:9-11, it's worth reading Isaiah 45:22-24.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus is a member of the Triune Godhead of Yahweh.

Jesus can be the everlasting Father because all fathers are also sons.

If Jesus was a mere man with authority given by God, how could he have existed before Adam?

Aside from the fact that Jesus was no "mere man." Although he was a man. He came from heaven, but was not God on earth, equal to two other godpersons. Of course he existed before Adam. He was with God. If you will discuss the scriptures as they are without saying that God is a trinity of three equal godpersons, or that YHWH means a trinity, maybe we can get somewhere. But until then -- it's probably HANN, And hope you keep learning. Good you know that LORD is really the coverup for YHWH. YHWH in Hebrew is not spelled lord or Yeshua (Jesus).

 

[dybmh]

Everyone knows from creation that there is one God. The Trinity is the details of who God is. Abraham not reading the details of Genesis during worshipping God doesn't mean that those details don't hint towards the Trinity

At best, all you can show is that there is a plurality in the forces of creation. And that ignores all the gramatical information coming from rosends.

The Trinity (Father+Son+HolySpirit) is NOT implied or hinted anywhere in Jewish scripture. It's a fabrication. Who ever is telling you this, pastor, websites, whatever. They are misinformed. Anytime you look for it in the text, it will be a failure.

Christians refer to God in the singular too. Abraham didn't talk about the Trinity because of progressive revelation. The verses in the New Testament that talk about the Trinity came in later. The Trinity doesn't contradict monotheism because all polytheists know that there is one God but they suppress it.

If it's in the New Testament, but not in the Torah, it's not Judaism. I'm not interested in it. You're welcome to continue the debate with non-trinitarians on it. Please let me know when you have it all sorted out.

Just because the rabbis interpret the verses about Jesus in a certain way it doesn't mean that believing in Jesus is apostasy or rejecting the Torah or the Tanakh.

I'm not a Rabbi. I'm not depending on their interpretation. I'm basing it on the story in the New Testament, your scripture. Jesus both adds and removes from the law. He tempts people with god-like power if they follow him. Eating his flesh and drinking his blood for eternal life is an occult practice. God is Love is a greek concept. He was a guru starting his own religion, and it worked. That's not what it means to be the Jewish Messiah. The Torah says the Jewish messiah will bring world peace. If someone thinks that Jesus is the Messiah, they are denying that aspect. When there's world peace, let's talk.

I believe that those who reject Jesus and believe in other Messiahs will accept the coming Antichrist and one world religion.

I don't believe in an Anti-Christ nor in one world government.

 

[Skywalker]

NEVER SAYS "YAHWEH THE TRIUNE GOD." Unfortunately you made that up to justify yourself, just like others do when explaining scripture or interpretations. Never implies it, but apparently to you and other trinitarians, it does. It's sad, you are showing me many things, because you are moving away from knowledge and reality.
But It DOES mean that LORD in capital letters is the coverup by misleading translators for YHWH as demonstrated in the holy scriptures. Yahweh, or Jehovah is not spelled as Jesus. In English, Greek, or Hebrew. Lord is an entirely different Hebrew word from YHWH.

Yahweh is the name of the Godhead who created everything, and Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.

The title Lord applies to Jesus because he said why do you call me Lord Lord and not do the things that I say?

 

[Skywalker]

Aside from the fact that Jesus was no "mere man." Although he was a man. He came from heaven, but was not God on earth, equal to two other godpersons. Of course he existed before Adam. He was with God. If you will discuss the scriptures as they are without saying that God is a trinity of three equal godpersons, or that YHWH means a trinity, maybe we can get somewhere. But until then -- it's probably HANN, And hope you keep learning. Good you know that LORD is really the coverup for YHWH. YHWH in Hebrew is not spelled lord or Yeshua (Jesus).

Do you think Jesus was self existing like God? Jesus being the firstborn over all creation was a reference to his divinity.

YHWH is not the spelling of Yeshua. Yeshua is part of the Godhead that is Yahweh. The Bible doesn't mention the word Trinity but it mentions the Godhead.

 

[ayin]

NEVER SAYS "YAHWEH THE TRIUNE GOD." Unfortunately you made that up to justify yourself, just like others do when explaining scripture or interpretations. Never implies it, but apparently to you and other trinitarians, it does. It's sad, you are showing me many things, because you are moving away from knowledge and reality.
But It DOES mean that LORD in capital letters is the coverup by misleading translators for YHWH as demonstrated in the holy scriptures. Yahweh, or Jehovah is not spelled as Jesus. In English, Greek, or Hebrew. Lord is an entirely different Hebrew word from YHWH.

You Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. You deny that God came into the flesh, you say a created angel became flesh, as if that were not enough, you claim Jesus did not die on a cross.

 

[Skywalker]

At best, all you can show is that there is a plurality in the forces of creation. And that ignores all the gramatical information coming from rosends.

The Trinity (Father+Son+HolySpirit) is NOT implied or hinted anywhere in Jewish scripture. It's a fabrication. Who ever is telling you this, pastor, websites, whatever. They are misinformed. Anytime you look for it in the text, it will be a failure.

If it's in the New Testament, but not in the Torah, it's not Judaism. I'm not interested in it. You're welcome to continue the debate with non-trinitarians on it. Please let me know when you have it all sorted out.

I'm not a Rabbi. I'm not depending on their interpretation. I'm basing it on the story in the New Testament, your scripture. Jesus both adds and removes from the law. He tempts people with god-like power if they follow him. Eating his flesh and drinking his blood for eternal life is an occult practice. God is Love is a greek concept. He was a guru starting his own religion, and it worked. That's not what it means to be the Jewish Messiah. The Torah says the Jewish messiah will bring world peace. If someone thinks that Jesus is the Messiah, they are denying that aspect. When there's world peace, let's talk.

I don't believe in an Anti-Christ nor in one world government.

The Trinity is a plurality within the one God that we all know exists from nature. It's not polytheism.

The Jewish scriptures talk about the plurality of God.

The communion is symbolic of Jesus dying for our sins.

God was long-suffering in the Tanakh.

Jesus was not a guru. Most Jews and Gentiles who he preached to rejected him.

Daniel mentioned that the Son of Man (a term for Jesus) coming on the clouds, will have dominion in the future. Jesus wasn't meant to fulfill abc and xyz in one coming. He will fulfill more when he arrives on the Mount of Olives.

The Antichrist is a reference to the future, not to Roman persecution. Preterism has less textual support than futurism.

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you think Jesus being born of a virgin is why He is the Son of God?

No. He is the son of God because his life was taken FROM heaven and put into the embryo. Jesus had to learn how to speak (despite the claims that some make as if Jesus spoke the moment he was in the cradle.) He learned a trade from Joseph.

Muslims believe that Jesus was born of a virgin but they reject the term the Son of God. Adam was not born of a virgin. Jesus came from the realms above and he was not a junior deity. During the baptism of Jesus the Son and Spirit were seen together.

Jehovah God and His Son were and are inextricably bonded in love. Remember that God wanted Adam (a son of God) removed from the garden of Eden because if he got to the tree of life, that would be a problem. Jesus was (and is) the SON of God. A son comes from his father.
Genesis 3 - And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever- (American Standard Version)
Again, that Jehovah God said the man has become as one of 'us,' does not mean Jehovah was talking to or is a trinity. I'll leave it there for the time being.

 

[Skywalker]

Since Jehovah is a jealous God, it doesn't make sense that he would create a junior deity.

 

[dybmh]

The Trinity is a plurality within the one God that we all know exists from nature. It's not polytheism.

But worshipping it is idol-worship. Father+Son+HolySpirit is an idol. If you can somehow divorce The Trinity from Father+Son+HolySpirit, let me know.

The Jewish scriptures talk about the plurality of God.

Jewish scriptures talk about egyptian sorcerers too. Just because they exist doesn't mean it's OK to worship them.

The communion is symbolic of Jesus dying for our sins.

It's an occult practice.

God was long-suffering in the Tanakh.

Whatever you say...

Jesus was not a guru. Most Jews and Gentiles who he preached to rejected him.

So I guess there weren't crowds of people following him like the Christian bible describes? Anyway, his popularity doesn't matter. He had disciples, he was their master. He promised eternal life if they would follow him. That's a guru.

Daniel mentioned that the Son of Man (a term for Jesus) coming on the clouds, will have dominion in the future. Jesus wasn't meant to fulfill abc and xyz in one coming. He will fulfill more when he arrives on the Mount of Olives.

... wishful thinking. Get back to me when it actually happens.

The Antichrist is a reference to the future, not to Roman persecution. Preterism has less textual support than futurism

I already told you, I don't believe in the Anti-christ. No one can prove that Jesus Christ is the messiah, nor that the Christian bible has any value for a Jewish person. That makes this whole anti-Christ concept completely worthless for me.

I'm done discussing this with you skywalker. I wish you only good things, and I'll let you have the last word if you want it.

 

[YoursTrue]

You Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. You deny that God came into the flesh, you say a created angel became flesh, as if that were not enough, you claim Jesus did not die on a cross.

The trinity is not upheld by scripture. Jesus, the SON of God, left heaven where he was beside the Father. He said the Father is greater than he is. Jesus died on a stauros, stake, or beam of wood. Anyway, have a nice night.

 

[Skywalker]

But worshipping it is idol-worship. Father+Son+HolySpirit is an idol. If you can somehow divorce The Trinity from Father+Son+HolySpirit, let me know.

Jewish scriptures talk about egyptian sorcerers too. Just because they exist doesn't mean it's OK to worship them.

It's an occult practice.

Whatever you say...

So I guess there weren't crowds of people following him like the Christian bible describes? Anyway, his popularity doesn't matter. He had disciples, he was their master. He promised eternal life if they would follow him. That's a guru.
... wishful thinking. Get back to me when it actually happens.

I already told you, I don't believe in the Anti-christ. No one can prove that Jesus Christ is the messiah, nor that the Christian bible has any value for a Jewish person. That makes this whole anti-Christ concept completely worthless for me.

I'm done discussing this with you skywalker. I wish you only good things, and I'll let you have the last word if you want it.

Jewish Scriptures talk about Elohim in the plurality, and we are supposed to worship Elohim.

The long-suffering of Elohim shows that he is a loving God. God being love isn't just a New Testament concept.

How could God give us eternal life without dying on the cross? A judge can't just let a criminal go free. We can't stand in the presence of God with our sin. We are not perfect. It would be an insult to the holiness of God if he just forgave us without dying for our sins. God died for us like a lawyer who would take the place of a criminal.

 

[rosends]

The voice from Mount Sinai was the Angel of the Lord.

No, it wasn't. See how easy that is?