How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

But certainly no Christians because that would be wrong. Right?

How popular is the name Jesus?

Even if Christians named their kids Jesus, it doesn't change that the name of Jesus has connotations of salvation, because of its etymology.

 

[rosends]

Even if Christians named their kids Jesus, it doesn't change that the name of Jesus has connotations of salvation, because of its etymology.

And this claim has no relationship to your earlier claim about respect and naming children.

 

[Skywalker]

And this claim has no relationship to your earlier claim about respect and naming children.

People said that people named their kids after Caananite gods. They also didn't believe in having a personal relationship with those gods they believed in religious rituals and what God supposedly owes us, not what we owe God. If one believe in making God a part of their life and not in God as a distant religious figure, the type of respect you have for God is going to be different.

 

[blü 2]

There will be no perfect peace on earth until our present heaven and earth is replaced by a new heaven and earth [Revelation 21].

Do you read that as a metaphor or are you actually expecting a physical replacement?

Now is a time of division and war. The only real peace that exists, at present, is the peace that exists in the hearts of believers.

So you say that I, as an unbeliever, am incapable of being peaceful?

Don't be silly.

Those that are born again of the Spirit of Christ share an understanding of this inner peace and assurance.

So does anyone of goodwill, believer or nonbeliever.

 

[Skywalker]

Do you read that as a metaphor or are you actually expecting a physical replacement?
So you say that I, as an unbeliever, am incapable of being peaceful?

Don't be silly.
So does anyone of goodwill, believer or nonbeliever.

Adam and Eve weren't created on earth because people are meant to be physical beings.

Without putting God first, people find all sorts of idols. Indigenous people make gods out of wood and precious stone. Other people make idols of money, prestige, and relationships.

 

[rosends]

People said that people named their kids after Caananite gods. They also didn't believe in having a personal relationship with those gods they believed in religious rituals and what God supposedly owes us, not what we owe God. If one believe in making God a part of their life and not in God as a distant religious figure, the type of respect you have for God is going to be different.

So according to you, anyone who names a child "Jesus" doesn't have the (right kind of) personal relationship with his God, right?

 

[blü 2]

Adam and Eve weren't created on earth because people are meant to be physical beings.

Adam and Eve are characters from folktale, not from history. Human evolution is backed by an ever-growing body of evidence; there was never a moment when any particular Female A and her partner Male B were the first examples of modern H sap sap.

Without putting God first, people find all sorts of idols. Indigenous people make gods out of wood and precious stone. Other people make idols of money, prestige, and relationships.

Why not just enjoy reality and do your best for it while you're here? You only get one turn.

 

[Skywalker]

So according to you, anyone who names a child "Jesus" doesn't have the (right kind of) personal relationship with his God, right?

I don't know. That's between the person and God.

 

[rosends]

I don't know. That's between the person and God.

Well, and you. You wrote this in post #1271 "People who believe in having a relationship with God wouldn't name their kids after God because if you have a relationship with God there is a different standard of respect. "

 

[Skywalker]

Adam and Eve are characters from folktale, not from history. Human evolution is backed by an ever-growing body of evidence; there was never a moment when any particular Female A and her partner Male B were the first examples of modern H sap sap.
Why not just enjoy reality and do your best for it while you're here? You only get one turn.

All of those things are temporary and are not the meaning of life. Where does the concept of a "God-shaped hole" originate?

In 1670, Blaise Pascal published Pensées, which was a defense of the Christian religion. (It should be noted that this book was published after his death in 1662.)

In that book, he has a quote:

“What else does this craving, and this helplessness, proclaim but that there was once in man a true happiness, of which all that now remains is the empty print and trace? This he tries in vain to fill with everything around him, seeking in things that are not there the help he cannot find in those that are, though none can help, since this infinite abyss can be filled only with an infinite and immutable object; in other words by God himself.”
- Blaise Pascal, Pensées VII(425)

Since then, the concept has taken on a life of its own and the phrase "God-shaped hole," a close approximation of the concept, has been found throughout many Christian circles. (Recently, in 2002, a book was published with the title 'God-Shaped Hole'.)

While other answers show that the concept can be supported biblically, the concept that there is a void/vacuum/hole is actually a non-biblical one.

This is a great question, as in the fact that trying to trace these bibical origins are hard. First, let us look at the Acts 17: 22-27:

22 Then Paul stood before the meeting of the Areopagus and said, "People of Athens, I can see you are very religious in all things. 23 As I was going through your city, I saw the objects you worship. I found an altar that had these words written on it: TO A GOD WHO IS NOT KNOWN. You worship a god that you don't know, and this is the God I am telling you about! 24 The God who made the whole world and everything in it is the Lord of the land and the sky. He does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 This God is the One who gives life, breath, and everything else to people. He does not need any help from them; he has everything he needs. 26 God began by making one person, and from him came all the different people who live everywhere in the world. God decided exactly when and where they must live. 27 God wanted them to look for him and perhaps search all around for him and find him, though he is not far from any of us.

As you can see, when God created humans, he wanted them to look around for him and search for him. This is one of God's plans, and in doing so, he created this "hole" that cannot be filled by any other: in short, that "God-shaped hole" was created by God for us to look for him.

I have another verse as example; let us look at Ecclesiastes 3:10-12:

10 I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live.

 

[Skywalker]

Well, and you. You wrote this in post #1271 "People who believe in having a relationship with God wouldn't name their kids after God because if you have a relationship with God there is a different standard of respect. "

I was giving my feeling about how things work in general. I wasn't claiming that anyone doesn't have a relationship with God.

 

[rosends]

I was giving my feeling about how things work in general. I wasn't claiming that anyone doesn't have a relationship with God.

uh huh

 

[blü 2]

All of those things are temporary and are not the meaning of life. Where does the concept of a "God-shaped hole" originate?

God, being imaginary, has any shape you wish, no?

(Something went wrong with the rest of your post.)

You still haven't told me what other lies and deceits Jesus told, apart from pretending not to be God. Please clear that point up, because although you've already destroyed Jesus' entire credibility, it's be helpful to know the whole scope of it,

 

[Skywalker]

God, being imaginary, has any shape you wish, no?

(Something went wrong with the rest of your post.)

You still haven't told me what other lies and deceits Jesus told, apart from pretending not to be God. Please clear that point up, because although you've already destroyed Jesus' entire credibility, it's be helpful to know the whole scope of it,

Jesus said that he was the Messiah to the Samaritan woman and the Bible says that Jesus created everything. Jesus said that he was God indirectly.

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made... He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him." John 1:3, 10

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For BY HIM all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created BY HIM and FOR HIM. He is before all things, and IN HIM all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." Colossians 1:15-18

"but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him'... But about the Son he says... 'In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.'" Hebrews 1:2-3, 6, 8a, 10-12

"Israel is My Son, even my first born." Exodus 4:22

Response to Islamic Awareness: Is Jesus God?

John 9:38: "Lord, I believe, and he worshiped him."

Matthew 28:17: "they saw him, they worshiped him".

 

[blü 2]

Jesus said that he was the Messiah to the Samaritan woman and the Bible says that Jesus created everything.

Both Paul and John say (a) that Jesus pre-existed in heaven with God (b) that Jesus created the material universe and (c) that Jesus is not God.

There is no identification of the messiah with God in the the bible. If you disagree, quote me the passage.

Jesus said that he was God indirectly.

No, he did not. Instead Paul expressly states that Jesus is not God (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 15:28. Philippians 2:11) and John's Jesus expressly states he isn't God (John 5:19, John 5:30, John 6:38, John 10:25, John 17:3, John 20:17 &c)

So you are indeed claiming that Jesus is a deceiver and a liar, and the question is, what else do you say Jesus lied about or deliberately misrepresented?

 

[Skywalker]

Both Paul and John say (a) that Jesus pre-existed in heaven with God (b) that Jesus created the material universe and (c) that Jesus is not God.

There is no identification of the messiah with God in the the bible. If you disagree, quote me the passage.
No, he did not. Instead Paul expressly states that Jesus is not God (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 15:28. Philippians 2:11) and John's Jesus expressly states he isn't God (John 5:19, John 5:30, John 6:38, John 10:25, John 17:3, John 20:17 &c)

So you are indeed claiming that Jesus is a deceiver and a liar, and the question is, what else do you say Jesus lied about or deliberately misrepresented?

Isaiah 9:6 calls the Messiah the Everlasting Father. A son can be a father. All father are sons.

Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

Messiah is the Son of God.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Psalm 2:7, I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Proverbs 30:4, Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
John 3:16, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Luke 3, ...a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Born of a virgin.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Isaiah 7:14, Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [meaning God with us-Matthew 1:23].

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
Luke 1:26-27, 31,34-35, ...the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, Named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David...(and the angel said)...behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS..Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (See Matthew chapters 1 and 2 and Luke chapters 1 and 2.)

(ASIDE: Catholicism has unscripturally exalted the role of Mary. She is not to be worshipped and neither are saints or statues).

His messenger sent before Him.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Malachi 3:1, Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 40:3, The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant

Matthew 3:1-3, In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, and saying, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Matthew 3:11 (John speaking), I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worth to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

When the Pharisees asked who he was, John explained in John 1:23, "I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias."

Body did not corrupt--rose from the dead.
Tenakh/Hebrew Scripture
Psalm 16:10, For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Br'it Chadashah/New Covenant
I Corinthians 15:3-4...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

 

[dybmh]

No No... It's a riddle.

Who or what:

1. pre-existed in heaven with God AND
2. created the material world AND
3. Is Not a God

???

Remember, Paul was Jewish; that's the last hint I'll give.

 

[Skywalker]

Adam and Eve are characters from folktale, not from history. Human evolution is backed by an ever-growing body of evidence; there was never a moment when any particular Female A and her partner Male B were the first examples of modern H sap sap.
Why not just enjoy reality and do your best for it while you're here? You only get one turn.

Why not spend that life knowing God? God desires a relationship with his creation. We are made in God's image. Wouldn't you want to know your parents? Where does the concept of a "God-shaped hole" originate?

John 7:37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.'" 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. NAS

The word "innermost being" is the Greek koilos, meaning hole or empty place. It is often translated belly or womb. In Jn 7, Jesus is describing a spiritual empty place in the heart of man, not a physical belly or womb. This empty place is the source of thirst and the divine solution to this hunger/thirst is to fill it with living water from the Holy Spirit.

Romans 1:20-23


For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Ecclesiastes 3:11

He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

Thomas, Pascal and CS Lewis are paraphrasing Augustine.

Fecisti nos ad Te, et inquietum est cor nostrum, donec requiescat in Te.
— St Augustine, Confessions 1.1.

Translated by Maria Boulding as,

You stir us so that praising you may bring us joy, because you have made us and drawn us to yourself, and our heart is unquiet until it rests in you.

We all want to live happily; in the whole human race there is no one who does not assent to this proposition, even before it is fully articulated.
— St Augustine, De moribus eccl. 1,3,4: PL 32,1312.



How is it, then, that I seek you, Lord? Since in seeking you, my God, I seek a happy life, let me seek you so that my soul may live, for my body draws life from my soul and my soul draws life from you.
— St Augustine, Confessions 10,20: PL 32,791.

 

[dybmh]

I believe that they didn't come to believe in Jesus not because God hasn't provided us sufficient revelation in Scripture and in general revelation. Something else-pride, sin, or hard-heartedness-may be obstructing their path.

fine. be that way.

 

[Skywalker]

No No... It's a riddle.

Who or what:

1. pre-existed in heaven with God AND
2. created the material world AND
3. Is Not a God

???

Remember, Paul was Jewish; that's the last hint I'll give.

How could Jesus not be God if he pre-existed in heaven with God and created the material world?

John 1:3-7

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.