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How can any true Christian not accept a gay Bishop?
- Thread starter Ordeet
- Start date
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
yes, but I didnt say they were 'practicing' homosexuals
they are (were) gay men who had made a conscious decision to refrain from what they knew was contrary to Gods standards....just as those who previously smoked cigarettes stopped smoking, or those who took drugs stopped taking drugs, or those who used to sleep around with many partners stopped sleeping around with many partners
Its the 'practicing' of such things that would prevent someone from being a member of the congregation...not simply having the 'tendency' toward such things for God is not bother by our tendencies to sin...he is more concerned with our actions.
jonman122
Active Member
how do you know what god is more concerned with? Have you spoken to him directly? Did he stand before you and tell you that he cares more for your actions themselves than what your actions seem to be born from?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
We know because God provided his son as a means of us gaining forgiveness for our wrongdoing.
Now i just want to show you this article from the 1970 WT May 15th entitled "Avoiding the Snare of Homosexuality"
"A person who is making progress in his desire to please God should not get discouraged if he cannot at once clear his mind and feelings from all wrong thoughts and emotions. He must keep on fighting, however, taking encouragement from the fact that even the apostle Paul confessed to not being able to do fully what he wanted to do. But he did not give up the fight. He did not yield to the flesh,"
The society are very clear here... they are telling those with homosexual thoughts and those fighting the tendency that they should not be discouraged if they continue to have homosexual thoughts and feelings....why would they say that if they felt that homosexual feelings and thoughts are worthy of condemnation or disfellowshipping from the congregation?
Its because God does not condemn us for our sinful tendencies....he will only judge us based on our 'actions'. I may be a person who enjoys smoking & taking drugs (in the past yes i was) and that desire never really goes away...i can still recall the times when i was taking recreational drugs and quite enjoying it...I know if I had something today i would enjoy it....but I refrain from it because I want to please God and that is what Jehovah wants to see from us. He wants us to refrain from wrongdoing...it matters not that we still have the tendency.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
So... we've established that the "Christian standard" is that we don't follow the holiness code any longer. Since the injunction against homosexual behavior is part of that code, you're saying that your church agrees that homosexuality is OK -- but you, personally, disagree with that stance.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Is this true ?
Jim Moon is webmaster of A Common Bond, an international support group for ex-Jehovah's Witnesses who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered. 1 Their web site states that:
"The Jehovah's Witness religion teaches its membership to believe that homosexuality is 'detestable', 'an abomination', 'abhorrent', and is caused by demon possession. Because of this, thousands of gay Witnesses are living lives of deeply closeted guilt, and fear of destruction by God. Those who choose to leave, or are expelled from the Witnesses face immediate isolation and shunning from family and friends. It is for this reason that 'A Common Bond' was created - to offer support and comfort to those who once thought they were alone and condemned...Gays and lesbians who have been kicked out of the JWs are in a special need for all the emotional and spiritual support they can get. If JWs don't conform completely to the sect's doctrines and practices, including a strict prohibition against merely being gay, they are disfellowshipped, which is a severe punishment. It amounts to total ostracism."
The Jehovah's Witnesses and homosexuality
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Romans 1- Talking about people born straight who choose to be gay, NOT gay people. People born gay cannot choose it, so how can they change something into something against nature, if being gay is their nature? Learn to use your brain Pegg.
AnnaTheBeast
Member
That kinda doesnt make sense Senedjem. Every person who is gay isn't born gay, it just developes that way. They realize they are attracted to men or if its a woman, to a woman. Can you see an 11 year old boy and say if he is gay or not? Or a 10 year old boy?
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Anna sure it makes sense. Romans 1 says they changed the natural use into that against nature. That can't apply to gay people, because being gay is their nature.
AnnaTheBeast
Member
Yes but why did you distinguish being born gay or turning out gay? They are two in the same.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Well Anna that's just one context you could take it in besides the popular gay bashing one. I think Paul was speaking hypothetically, putting forth that if a person could choose it, then it'd be against nature.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
There are many ways one can take it. Christian authors have written books about it. Gay Christians and their advocates. A friend of mine wrote a book about this very thing, and he's a gay Christian.
I will repeat myself. I do not know if homosexuality is truly a sin, there are so many ways to interpret scriptures that it can't be known- at for me. But even if it were a sin, how would it be any worse than any other sin. People sin everyday. I have seen men look at women in a leering way while in Church- Jesus said that was a no-no. I know of many divorced and remarried couples who go to Church every Sunday- Jesus that was a no-no (outside of abuse and adultery, that is). On top of that, Jesus preached to what Pharisees called "sinners". Jesus wasn't cruel to them, he didn't stone women caught in the act of adultery, He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. What makes any person who follows Jesus think he/she is better than Jesus Himself? And we, as followers of Jesus, are supposed to emulate Him.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
if you are calling the Mosaic Law the 'holiness code' then no, we are not obliged to live by that code any longer... but that is certainly not to say that immoral sexual activity was ok in the christian congregation.
Christians knew they did not have to abide by the Mosaic law, but they knew they still needed to abide by Gods standards of holiness.
2 Corinthians 7:1 "Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear"
what are the defilement's according to the Apostle Paul?
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God"
all of the above bolded acts constitute a defiling of the flesh...to be accepted by God one must renounce such things, as those christians had done whom Paul addressed these words to.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the scriptures do not make any distinction between one sin being worse then another...homosexuality is as much as sin as adultery or fornication on the part of hetrosexuals.... its as much a sin as being a drunkard or reviler or thief or murderer.... God views sin as sin whatever form it takes which is why they are all barred from entering into the kingdom of the heavens.
This reminds of someone who asked Jesus "Then, who can be saved" and Jesus replied "what is impossible for man is possible for God". Do you have an idea of what that means? In my view, that means that no one could be saved unless God wills it. God must will it, then. And I know what JWs teach, I nearly became one after studying with them for almost two years.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I could tell my nephew was gay when he was 9 years old. He did not figure it out till he was 14.
AnnaTheBeast
Member
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
He acted like he was gay. It was not about who he was attracted to. It was about him, his likes and dislikes. The way he played with girls. He just seemed gay to me. In my high school I had a friend who was teased about being Gay. Years later he told me he had no idea at the time he was Gay. There are human patterns that you can pick up if you are sensitive to them.
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TEXASBULL
Member
My brother in law is gay. You should see pictures of him when he was 6 years old. You could see it all of his life. He has always had very " girl like" mannerisms all of his life. He tried to play sports and be one of the "guys", but he eventually gave in an accepted his life.