How Can Anyone Not Accept This Biblical Prophecy as Real?

[Koldo]

The one prophecy the OP topic is about, qualifies on all points.

1. The whole world has been deceived by those that came after, claiming Yeshua was saying "I Am". The OP was specifically referencing the made up Gospel of John, as that is the most blatant, that everyone should be aware of, especially academics and atheists; as it is ridiculous that we have a textual document, where it can easily be shown the phraseology is not the same character presented in the Synoptic Gospels. To predict that all the world will be deceived by this, is accurate as Christians believe jesus is god because of these false texts.
2. All self contained, and clearly happened.
3. The only bit that is ambiguous, is due to a typo in Matthew, where it says 'Ego I-mee Christos' (I Am Christ), and instead of them seeing that both Mark, and Luke didn't have the word 'Christos' after, they added it to both of them, rather than remove it from Matthew. Thus some people have then intermingled 'there will be many false Christs', and assumed that is the contextual meaning. If we examine the Greek of the Synoptic Gospels though, we can clearly see Yeshua applied "Ego I-mee" to God specifically.
4. It's probable that Yeshua knew the Pharisees were accusing him of saying 'he was the great I Am' (Luke 22:70), even though he didn't speak that way... So his prediction in someway is probable, that the Pharisee/Sanhedrin will make up false statements about him after. What isn't probable is that the whole world will be deceived by it, and not notice how blatantly obvious it is.
5. Considering the world actually follows a made up idea, that jesus is someone who was claiming, "I Am the way, the truth, and life"; shows how little people pay attention, when that is the direct wording Yeshua prophesied would be used to deceive everyone.

It is ambiguous to the point that the vast majority of the world doesn't agree with your interpretation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Lol that was all done in the OP... Then in the last reply systematically explained each point, in context of the precise statements.

The OP provided your paraphrasing of what you think the passages say, not the passages themselves. Is your paraphrasing correct? We would need to look at the passages to tell.

The criteria "it must be in the Bible" can't be established as satisfied until you demonstrate that the meaning you're inferring really is in the Bible.

So quotes, please. The specific verses that you think are prophetic.

 

[pearl]

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts,

Jesus was perceived as God before the texts were written.

 

[wizanda]

it is ambiguous.

It is only ambiguous without examination of the Greek, using a Bible software like Esword; we can examine all instances of Ego I-mee, and see the difference in usage.

And it was a general concept at the time.

God being the great 'I Am' has been a concept throughout history, that isn't the issue; it is the phraseology being applied to Yeshua, when he doesn't speak that way in the Synoptic Gospels.

Please explain your rejection of said points a little better, as it is a very ambiguous reply.

You mean someone prophesied that people would claim something that wasn't God was God?! Since that kind of claim happens SO SELDOM...

Valid point, it does happen regularly, and in this instance we have textual evidence validating the whole case, that the world has been deceived by fabricated texts.

I hereby pronounce this text INFALLIBLE.

OK that is crazy, I'm busy trying to show why this text can be edited, fabricated, and proven; yet you then come out with some weird statement about trusting everything in books again.

None of it confuses me.This doesn't warrant serious discussion. Ridiculous is a generous term.

Which means you're clearly not understanding it, and have just posted from the ego, as it saves explaining, and justifying the lack of comprehension.

The strained complexity

This isn't strained, this is very basic, and simple... Yeshua didn't use Ego I-mee about himself, they've made up text saying he did, and the world follows it.

If they are so freaking obvious why aren't Christian theologians, the world over, discussing them ad infinitum?

Excellent point, there are numerous reasons, one is due to translation, and misconceptions in exegesis; so for instance as saying earlier most Christians commonly believe, that the statements listed were interlinking with the other statement, 'many false Christs shall come and deceive the elect if possible', so they've applied that to the ego i-mee warnings by Yeshua.

Because the Church was established on the writings of Paul, John, and Simon, it is heavily built on the idea jesus is the great "I Am", so why would a Christian scholar try to remove their own foundations?

Only theologians willing to question the authenticity of the cannon, are ever going to even approach the subject, and since you'd also need to systematically remove most of Christianity, an academic won't go that far.

It is ambiguous to the point that the vast majority of the world doesn't agree with your interpretation.

The whole world is deceived by it, is the point within the OP.

So quotes, please. The specific verses that you think are prophetic.

Luke 21:8 He said, “Watch out that you don’t get led astray, for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am,’ (Ego I-mee) and, ‘The time is at hand.’ Therefore don’t follow them.

Mark 13:5-6 Jesus, answering, began to tell them, “Be careful that no one leads you astray. (6) For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am!’ (Ego I-mee) and will lead many astray.

Matthew 24:4-5 Jesus answered them, “Be careful that no one leads you astray. (5) For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ (Ego I-mee Christos) and will lead many astray.

In the fake Gospel of John we have 7 Ego I-mee statements:

1. I am the bread of life 6:35, 48, 51
2. I am the light of the world 8:12; 9:5
3. I am the door of the sheep 10:7, 9
4. I am the good shepherd 10:11, 14
5. I am the resurrection and the life 11:25
6. I am the way, the truth, and the life 14:6
7. I am the true vine 15:1

The idea this is prophetic is in the whole world follows this lie, which is blatant once we recognize the textual differences between the Synoptic Gospels Vs the Gospel of John.

Jesus was perceived as God before the texts were written.

Indeed some thought he was claiming that, and we could even say he was a physical manifestation of YHVH, that isn't the problem...

The issue is the speech shows what he stated, and what has been added after.

 

[Jumi]

1) they haven't heard of them
2) they have heard of them and categorize them as untrue in whole or part

 

[Altfish]

Thus because you don't believe in something external to a history book, you've ignore the facts of reality presented, that have shaped and change our whole world....

No, not at all. I have read the Bible and it is obviously a work of fiction written by stone age men. I find very little in it that I would call a 'fact'.

Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, haven't had that much affect on the real world, thus they're not the same.

I beg to differ, they have both had much affect on the real world, in fact to give an example, the new Scottish £10 is to have the Hogwarts express on one side.

The false "I Am" statements have created the church; thus you can pretend to yourself none of it is real; yet the evidence exists everywhere around us.

Show me some evidence - I and countless others have searched and found none.

 

[viole]

Fair enough some of the things are really ambiguous to discern, and are not very clear....

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

Then this is so blatant that the Gospel of John is made up, as it repeatedly (x7+1) uses 'Ego I-mee' as if Yeshua spoke that way, trying to make him seem like he was claiming to be God.

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts, the whole world has blatantly been deceived as specified, and because people listen to those deceived by said made up texts, everyone is seeing it as a joke, when it can be physically seen in the world that it has happened.

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

I accept Biblical prophecies as very real. Despite being a staunch atheist.

How that is possible, without being incoherent, is left as a simple exercise to the reader.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Underhill]

It's a tough question but I'll give it a shot.

Because it is a book of fairy tails which includes, but is not limited to, walking on water, multiplying loafs, raising people from the dead and a host of other nonsense.

Because the majority of the "prophecies" are either obviously always true (there will be wars and rumors of wars) or are self fulfilling.

Because faith is the evidence. This is not me talking. It's in the bible. Whenever someone tells me faith is the evidence, I immediately cry foul. People had faith in Hitler, Horus and the earth being on the back of a big turtle. Faith alone is evidence of nothing but a faulty thought process.

 

[wizanda]

Show me some evidence - I and countless others have searched and found none.

If you literally can't see what is being said, then not sure how to help you see the whole church is built on falsified texts, as prophesied would happen.

I accept Biblical prophecies as very real. Despite being a staunch atheist.

Glad someone can be logical.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Because it is a book of fairy tails

Alright so because of the distractions, like with missing the original topic, and only taking the title or within the Bible, getting waylaid by what are possible myths, caused you to miss the bits that have literally happened within history.

Honestly don't care if someone accepts every prophecy, as some are very hard to distinguish; yet when this is so shockingly simple, and really everyone should be able to see it, very disappointed by the responses so far.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

OK that is crazy, I'm busy trying to show why this text can be edited, fabricated, and proven; yet you then come out with some weird statement about trusting everything in books again.

I admit, this was a self-serving nod to all those others who do this same sort of thing regularly, and claim it points to the validity and even invincibility of the entire text of The Bible. That's not you, so I apologize.

However, I am now really interested in your choice of the bolded words above. If the text is prone to "edit" and you admit that (at least some of) it is "fabricated", then how can you ever expect anyone to trust anything from it to have been "proven?" Meaning, if people have screwed with it over time ("edited") and even initially some of it was entirely made up ("fabricated"), then how can we take a fairly obtuse and generalized claim from said text and ascribe modern day "proof" to that claim with any amount of certainty?

 

[viole]

Glad someone can be logical.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

It would be highly illogical to deny the reality of the prophecies in the Bible.

I mean, you just have to read it to realize that there are prophecies in it.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Koldo]

The whole world is deceived by it, is the point within the OP.

So it is ambiguous to the point the whole world is deceived. Alright... I don't see how that helps your point.

 

[pearl]

Indeed some thought he was claiming that,

But not claimed for the Jesus in his ministry. It is the post resurrection community that worshiped him thus.

 

[fantome profane]

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

At the time this was written there were many people claiming to be the Messiah. There were people claiming to be the Messiah before this was written, and there were people claiming to be the Messiah after this was written. It would be plainly obvious to anyone living at this time that there would continue to be people showing up making this claim. Captian Obvious would not even accept this prophecy.

 

[LuisDantas]

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

I never thought of the Bible as something to take nearly so seriously as you seem to propose.

What I have learned of it through the years only reinforced by conviction that it is not a book to go out of one's way to consider.

Quite on the contrary, I have decided that religious scripture is inherently a far lesser thing to the practice, and it should be corrected and validated by the discernment of the practictioners. Never the other way around, despite it being a regrettably popular creed.

And frankly, as scriptures go, the Bible is nearly useless, while the Qur'an is worse than.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I came across these criteria for a valid prophecy a while back. I think they're very reasonable:



http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies#Criteria_for_a_true_prophecy

Do you know of a Biblical prophecy that meets all of these criteria? I don't.

To give an example that would meet all these criteria:

If there was a passage in the Bible, evident in the earliest existing copies of the text (Codex Vaticanus, for example) that said something to the effect of--

"In the 1,900th year after the death of Jesus, A man named Adolph Hitler will be elected leader of the country of Germany. Six years later, his actions will cause a war that involves most of the largest and most economically prosperous nations of the planet, including the Soviet Union, lead by Joseph Stalin, Great Britain, lead by Winston Churchill, and the United States of America, lead by Franklin Roosevelt."

A statement like that in the Bible would meet all of the the criteria:

1) turned out to be true and accurate
2) was in the Bible
3) is precise and unambiguous
4) is improbable that anyone could have known this, as the nations and people so identified did not yet exist
5) would have been otherwise unknown and could not have been predicted based on the knowledge of the people at the time the prediction was made.

There are no "prophecies" in the Bible, New or Old Testament, that meet all five of these traits, and indeed, most of what are identified as prophecies do not even meet any one of these.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't understand how a thinking person could accept biblical prophecy as real. Or, at least, accept it for what it actually is.

 

[Underhill]

Alright so because of the distractions, like with missing the original topic, and only taking the title or within the Bible, getting waylaid by what are possible myths, caused you to miss the bits that have literally happened within history.

Honestly don't care if someone accepts every prophecy, as some are very hard to distinguish; yet when this is so shockingly simple, and really everyone should be able to see it, very disappointed by the responses so far.

Okay, so you want us to understand that bits of it are true but most of it is nonsense?

 

[wizanda]

So it is ambiguous to the point the whole world is deceived.

It isn't ambiguous, people have to many private motives to examine it properly... As this thread is showing.

But not claimed for the Jesus in his ministry. It is the post resurrection community that worshiped him thus.

Exactly, and much of what they've written claiming it came from Yeshua, can be shown to be fraudulent in a court of law, where people's own beliefs are not taken into account.

If the text is prone to "edit" and you admit that (at least some of) it is "fabricated", then how can you ever expect anyone to trust anything from it to have been "proven?"

Because of the physical instances in the real world taking place, the text could have all sorts of changes; yet if the text says this will happen, and it blatantly has, then we'd be delusional to say it hasn't.

Meaning, if people have screwed with it over time ("edited") and even initially some of it was entirely made up ("fabricated"), then how can we take a fairly obtuse and generalized claim from said text and ascribe modern day "proof" to that claim with any amount of certainty?

Proof isn't the text, it is that it literally happens in the real world; what is the point in it being a prophecy, if it is just some fictional belief.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Your title and post seem to contradict each other. Whereas the title seems to pose that biblical prophecy is real and true, the post itself seems to draw criticism of it as made up. So which are you asking?