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How can Christianity and Judaism both exist?

gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
nnmartin said:
I thought they shared the same God and also the Old Testament.
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There is no such thing as "Old Testament" in Judaism. That's a Christian thing.

Judaism have number of scriptures (or more precisely "books") that can be group together in 3 different category: Torah (Law), Nevi'im (Prophets) and Ketuvim (Writings). The entire Hebrew scriptures can be called Tanakh.

Christians borrowed the Hebrew scriptures. But it doesn't in any way means that it belong to them.

And yes, the Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah. Only Christians (and Muslims) accepted Jesus' status as Messiah, because IMO, Jesus failed to fulfill the so-called Messianic prophecies.

Christians say Jesus had fulfilled them, but the so-called fulfillment of prophecies is only based on extremely loose interpretations.

It is quite clear in the prophecy that the messiah would be king. Jesus was never king. He was only named King once - King of the Jews - when he was being crucified.

The messiah would save and rule an united Israel; the Christians equate Israel with "Christianity" or the "Church". Also, the other tribes of Israel had completely vanished from history.

The prophecy also say that there would be a thousand year of peace; was there ever peace for a thousand years since Jesus came?

Since Jesus didn't fulfill the prophecies as stated, Christians changed the messiah completely to suit their religion.

But back to the original question.

Yes, 2 different religions can exist.
 
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M

mohammed_beiruti

Active Member
Villager said:
I suppose that someone had the nerve to alter 'Jesus' to 'Abraham' within a quote counts as evidence.

There are few new Western religions that have not made reference to Jesus in the last two millennia.
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I don't understand?

please getdown to my level, and let me know what you mean?
 
Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
nnmartin said:
I thought they shared the same God and also the Old Testament.
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Thats debateable.


nnmartin said:
Also the Christians commonly refer to the OT. Much more similar than Hinduism.
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So what? Just because they try to be judaism makes them my buddies?


nnmartin said:
Why do we have the term Abrahamic religions then?
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Its a term invented be the believers of a religion that preaches that they are the continued old religion. Of course they have to usurp the roots of the original religion. So they invented this term.



mohammed_beiruti said:
don't the have the same O.T. ,do they?
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So? Christianity, Islam or the Bahai'i faith are not part of judaism.

Its really that simple.


Lets say i start a new religion.
Now i take your quran and call it the OT. After that I start a new book called the NT which becomes my basic theological base.

What would you think? I bet you'd be thrilled right?
 
Villager

Villager

Active Member
Flankerl said:
Now i take your quran and call it the OT. After that I start a new book called the NT which becomes my basic theological base.

What would you think? I bet you'd be thrilled right?
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Why not, if it referenced itself wholly to the Qur'an?

What has to be proved is that Messiah-ans are not the authentic followers of Abraham, as revealed in the Scriptures that Jesus claimed wrote of him. All of Jesus' statements refer to those Scriptures as their very basis, and all of the apostolic letters do so, too, and there were many contemporary Jews at close hand to contest all of these claims, but the belief survived and grew.

If the interpretations of those Scriptures by Messiah-ans cannot be proved impermissible, it cannot be said that their belief is invalid. And that has never been proved yet.
 
Tamar

Tamar

I am Jewish.
mohammed_beiruti said:
don't the have the same O.T. ,do they?
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Christianity took the Hebrew Bible and cherry picked what it needed to attempt to prove their theology.

Christianity only took what it needed it to give their belief system credibility and this is my opinion.

Islam did the same thing except instead of taking a book they just took the stories found in the Hebrew Bible and changed them around.

Both Islam and Christianity took from the Hebrew Bible.

Muslims took stories from the Old Testament/New Testament and Hebrew Bible and changing them around.

Christians have the Old Testament , New Testament.

Jews have the Hebrew Bible, Tanakh, not the Old Testament.
 
Villager

Villager

Active Member
Tamar said:
Christianity took the Hebrew Bible and cherry picked what it needed to attempt to prove their theology.
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What did they leave behind?

Or, Jews who did not recognise their Messiah had to give their Scripture meanings that it did not possess, and invent new 'scriptures'. As well as losing Ark, Temple, priesthood, sacrifices, Law, and Promised Land. Not too many cherries there.
 
Tamar

Tamar

I am Jewish.
Villager said:
What did they leave behind?

Or, Jews who did not recognise their Messiah had to give their Scripture meanings that it did not possess, and invent new 'scriptures'. As well as losing Ark, Temple, priesthood, sacrifices, Law, and Promised Land. Not too many cherries there.
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He wasn't a messiah, Jewish Scripture was already understood by Jews.
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
Villager said:
Or, Jews who did not recognise their Messiah had to give their Scripture meanings that it did not possess, and invent new 'scriptures'. As well as losing Ark, Temple, priesthood, sacrifices, Law, and Promised Land. Not too many cherries there.
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Jesus wasn't the messiah. Neither were the hundreds of other guys running around at that time claiming to be the messiah. The only reason Jesus is different is that Paul came along, redefined messiahdom into something entirely new, and created a theology to support that concept, which he had made with Jesus in mind.

Christians can retroject eisegetic Christological interpretations into the Hebrew scriptures all they like: doesn't mean Jews ever accepted or even considered those meanings themselves.

In any case, none of that has anything to do with the destruction of the Second Temple and the Roman Exile. And, just for the record, the priesthood was not lost, simply relegated to minimal ceremonial duties until the messiah does come and the Temple is rebuilt. Also, the Law was never lost. It was never even close to lost.
 
Villager

Villager

Active Member
Tamar said:
He wasn't a messiah, Jewish Scripture was already understood by Jews.
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Jews- Pharisees, priests and many others, accepted it as proving that Jesus was the Messiah. One has to prove them wrong, which contemporary Jews could not.
 
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