How can one know they have a soul or spirit?

[McBell]

I dont see them as interchangable. I dont know what a soul is.

A lot of what people call "supernatual" are based on personal experience, how we aee reality (our faith), how we interpret it (psychology), interact (sociology), how we attribute it/source (god, self, others, spirits, etc), and so forth. The spirit is our identity.

You have taken the time to define for yourself "spirit"; why not do the same for "soul"?

 

[Blastcat]

Nope.

Do you care at all to elaborate?

 

[Akivah]

Do you care at all to elaborate?

You've asked me several yes/no questions in a row with a snarky tone in your writing. But if you're sincerely interested in my opinions and beliefs, I'd be happy to elaborate. What specifically would you like elaboration on?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you. You will find people take things a bit personal when religion or supernatual isnconcerned while others mock it when some dont believe it at all.

IF you declare that "spirit" isn't supernatural, but that the "soul" is, you are just defining a problem out of existence.

I dont know what the soul is.

I didnt say the spirit is supernatual, I said:

So you say. Well, then... it must be so.

I didnt quote the link, but its the dictionaries definition. Christians have their definition. Hindu theirs. And so forth.

My family always treated supernatual as part of the natual world. As for Who we are, the traits I mentioned from nature and dictonary put together is the human mind and traits, interpretations, emotions, and such.

I know it sounds dull but then we arent aliens so Id assume the bolk of our experiences comes from how we perceive the world, ourselves, and others.

So you say. What do I do now.. just take your word for it?

Depends on your faith. My belief is spirit is the breathe of a buman being. The dictionary says its a collection of human emotions, traits, psych of the mind etc. Christians say its the spirit of jesus. Many Hindu say consciousness.

We arent making up or pretending X means something it is not. Its one of those words based on personal interpretation and to most confirmed by experience.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You have taken the time to define for yourself "spirit"; why not do the same for "soul"?

I dont know what soul means. I can use a dictionary? But it means nothing to me.

 

[Blastcat]

You've asked me several yes/no questions in a row with a snarky tone in your writing. But if you're sincerely interested in my opinions and beliefs, I'd be happy to elaborate. What specifically would you like elaboration on?

It would be non snarky to ASSUME that I am actually SINCERELY interested in your answers to EACH and every question I ask, instead of assuming the worst.

How did you arrive at these wisdomies?

 

[Akivah]

It would be non snarky to ASSUME that I am actually SINCERELY interested in your answers to EACH and every question I ask, instead of assuming the worst.

How did you arrive at these wisdomies?

It looks like you answered. Instead of asking a sincere question, you've elected to remain snarky. Good bye.

 

[McBell]

But it means nothing to me.

Why?
More to the point, why not take the time to define it for yourself like you did "spirit"?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why?
More to the point, why not take the time to define it for yourself like you did "spirit"?

Thats like defining what god is. Its a word. I dont see anything behind it other than what others define it as as well as the dictionary.

I honestly wouldnt know where to start.

 

[Blastcat]

It looks like you answered. Instead of asking a sincere question, you've elected to remain snarky. Good bye.

It's such a common debate tactic from the apologist to answer a difficult question by way of taking offense and running away as far as possible from the question. I am not surprised by common tactics, but notice avoidance when it happens.

People are happy to pontificate all day long, but are INSULTED if they are ever challenged.

 

[buddhist]

As I understand the Buddha, the "me" is the end-product of a "recipe" consisting of these combined "ingredients": 1. material body, 2. sensations, 3. perception, 4. mental formations, and 5. consciousness.

Which of these compose the "soul" or "spirit"?

 

[Blastcat]

Thank you. You will find people take things a bit personal when religion or supernatual isnconcerned while others mock it when some dont believe it at all.

Why shouldn't we mock religious beliefs? Those days are over.
We don't mock the PEOPLE.. we mock the ridiculous beleifs.

I dont know what the soul is.

I didnt say the spirit is supernatual, I said:

Oh I know what you said. You said the "spirit" is not supernatural.. it's an "energy" or a "breath"...

I asked what kind of energy it is and why not just use the word breath when you mean breath, instead of another, more religiously loaded word, such as "spirit"?

I didnt quote the link, but its the dictionaries definition. Christians have their definition. Hindu theirs. And so forth.

Oh, so you have a religious dictionaries. I'd be surprised, but the world is full of surprises.
So, what you are telling us what your religiously sanctioned dictionary says about "spirit".?

My family always treated supernatual as part of the natual world. As for Who we are, the traits I mentioned from nature and dictonary put together is the human mind and traits, interpretations, emotions, and such.

So, when your family says something, it's always true?
I am not convinced.

Your family might believe that ghosts are natural events. I can't possibly agree. I would call your family "wrong" about that.
IF we conflate meanings between two opposing words like "natural" and "supernatural".. both words become meaningless.

I know it sounds dull but then we arent aliens so Id assume the bolk of our experiences comes from how we perceive the world, ourselves, and others.

I don't see how this has anything to do with "spirit" or "soul" definitions.
You have a definition of "spirit" but not one for "soul".

You say that you found your definition for "spirit" in the dictionary, but you didn't find one for "soul" in the same dictionary. I suggest that you might take another look in the dictionary.

Or how about this.. let me make something up:

If SPIRIT can be "Breath"
SOUL can be "That which breathes"

Both are natural events.. breathing and the one breathing are natural, not supernatural.

Depends on your faith. My belief is spirit is the breathe of a buman being.

Breath is breath.. why not call it that instead of the religiously loaded word "spirit"? So, your definition for words is based on faith. I don't know what that could possibly mean. I take my meanings from a dictionary, or more precisely, from many. I also take my meanings from philosophers. They have good ones.

I think that your problem with knowing what a soul is.. due to a language difficulty and sloppy reasoning.
Both are very common.

I thought that YOU also took your definitions from dictionaries? I am confused now.
Do you base your language on faith or dictionaries?

The dictionary says its a collection of human emotions, traits, psych of the mind etc. Christians say its the spirit of jesus. Many Hindu say consciousness.

So, it's NOT faith, but dictionaries... ok.. My head is spinning.
You have Hindu and Christian dictionaries?

We arent making up or pretending X means something it is not.

I'm not. But I'm saying that you are.
You are pretending to know something that you really only imagine.

Its one of those words based on personal interpretation and to most confirmed by experience.

So, you use of the words "spirit" and "soul" are based on your personal interpretation and you confirm your personal interpretation by way of your experience. We call this kind of fallacious reasoning "Confirmation Bias". It's to be avoided.

But you are perfectly free to invent your own language if it pleases you.
Your definitions are your own.

Enjoy them.
Might be a bit difficult to have others adopt them. I don't.
They are vague at best, meaningless at worst.

People are so eager to tell us all about whatever passes through their heads.
It would be good if they were just as eager to think about these thoughts clearly.

 

[Blastcat]

Thats like defining what god is. Its a word. I dont see anything behind it other than what others define it as as well as the dictionary.

I honestly wouldnt know where to start.

Try starting at the same place where you got your "spirit" definition..

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When you mock peoples beliefs, you mock the people who follow them. You did both throughout your whole reply to me just now.

We don't mock the PEOPLE.. we mock the ridiculous beleifs.

Beliefs arent rediculous. religious. They are held by people that make these beliefs their identity. Whatever you think of other peoples beliefs no matter how ridiculous you say they are, be respectful to the people who follow them. We'd appreciate it.

I asked what kind of energy it is and why not just use the word breath when you mean breath, instead of another, more religiously loaded word, such as "spirit"?

Energy that keeps your body moving. Call it whatever you want. Some people use the word spirit others just energy. Regardless, I do not see it as different.

As other religious people, they do; I am not one of them.

Oh, so you have a religious dictionaries. I'd be surprised, but the world is full of surprises.
So, what you are telling us what your religiously sanctioned dictionary says about "spirit".?

This is from a regular dictionary. Read it. Most people who write these dictionaries are bias in their interpretation. My aunt wrote dictionaries for a living. She is christian. I wouldnt be surprised if some of her bias influenced definition of words just as every other dictionary.

I never said it was a religious dictionary. Thats an assumption. I am not that type of religious person nor am I a fanatic or someone you may be familiar talking with. Dont treat me as such.

So, when your family says something, it's always true? I am not convinced.

Your family might believe that ghosts are natural events. I can't possibly agree. I would call your family "wrong" about that. IF we conflate meanings between two opposing words like "natural" and "supernatural".. both words become meaningless.

Case closed.

You say that you found your definition for "spirit" in the dictionary, but you didn't find one for "soul" in the same dictionary. I suggest that you might take another look in the dictionary.

The word means nothing to me. Why would I look it up? No one asked me for the definition. Im not doing a research paper. Its not a curiousity word for me. Why would Iook it up?

Which one, there are many regular (non religious) dictionaries I can quote from in addition to the one I just did for spirit. Whats your point?

If SPIRIT can be "Breath"
SOUL can be "That which breathes"

Both are natural events.. breathing and the one breathing are natural, not supernatural.

I never said they were supernatual. I dont see anything as supernatual. Please read my posts.

So, you use of the words "spirit" and "soul" are based on your personal interpretation and you confirm your personal interpretation by way of your experience. We call this kind of fallacious reasoning "Confirmation Bias". It's to be avoided.

But you are perfectly free to invent your own language if it pleases you.
Your definitions are your own.

Enjoy them.
Might be a bit difficult to have others adopt them. I don't.
They are vague at best, meaningless at worst.

People are so eager to tell us all about whatever passes through their heads.
It would be good if they were just as eager to think about these thoughts clearly.

The word spirit is used in religious context. Religion in and of itself is personal. People adapt words to what make sense to them. For example, the word god. Its used in countless different ways and definitions (just look at the DIRs). Polytheist say their gods are different than monotheist. Yet, I think, how are they two the same word but just different in numbers yet both inheritants have different definitions for this same word.

Anyway, its okay to have your opinion. Just dont do what a lot of religious do and put your opinions on others as if they are illogical or wrong in general. Thats your Personal opinion. Your bias. How you view reality.

We all have it.

If you are not interested in being in another persons shoes, dont ask questions....cause it seems like any answers you get, you will attack.

Thats mocking.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Try starting at the same place where you got your "spirit" definition..

Why?

Whats your point?

 

[Blastcat]

8

When you mock peoples beliefs, you mock the people who follow them. You did both throughout your whole reply to me just now.

Beliefs arent rediculous. religious. They are held by people that make these beliefs their identity. Whatever you think of other peoples beliefs no matter how ridiculous you say they are, be respectful to the people who follow them. We'd appreciate it.

I am NOTICING that people are more interested in attacking me for asking tough questions in a forum about discussing tough questions about religion THAN actually discussing tough questions about religions.

Notice that all of is is about me having to defend myself for asking tough questions. I am having to defend asking tough questions instead of getting answers to them, and discussing those.

Some people really think that their religious beliefs are so special that nobody should challenge them.. they come into a forum about ideas and don't expect to have to explain them when asked.

I would never say that all beliefs are ridiculous. But some are.. we should really know the difference. IF I mock an idea.. it's really just the idea that I'm mocking. People who have bad ideas should abandon them.

But I really don't even mock ideas. I ask tough questions, and I have a sense of humor. People are TOO QUICK TO TAKE OFFENSE. This is typical of the religious person who doesn't WANT to be challenged about her beliefs.

If we take our beliefs seriously, we should answer serious questions about them.

I don't want to help people KEEP false ideas.. What's the point of that?

All too many people mistake challenging questions for disrespect. The REASON that some might ask tough questions is that we respect the people who have these belief s ENOUGH to help them out.

And after all, maybe I can learn something.. it happens all the time when I ask challenging questions. I can't learn anything if everyone runs away insulted that I asked.

I ask everyone to pay attention.. I ASK QUESTIONS.. I don't DISRESPECT PEOPLE.

I respect people. I don't have to respect whatever dumb ideas they might have. Not ALL beliefs are ridiculous, of course.
I'm here to find out which is which.

If someone is right.. ok.. fine. Great!
IF not.. ok.. let's all learn as much as we can!

If some person has a good reason.. I want to know it.

HOWEVER, it's been my very unfortunate experience that all too many religious people are QUICK to take offense if I challenge their beliefs. They usually tell me that I've offended them... and then they run away. I call that "abdication". They are prepared to lecture us all day, but NEVER prepared to defend their ideas.

I get that all the time because I challenge people on their beliefs.

Energy that keeps your body moving. Call it whatever you want. Some people use the word spirit others just energy. Regardless, I do not see it as different.

Oh, so words aren't important. I thought you were giving us your definition for a word. I guess that didn't matter, then,
We can just go ahead and call anything anything we like, according to you. Well, now we don't have any MEANING, either.
It can "mean" anything we want.

I "call" meaningless talk .. "babble".

As other religious people, they do; I am not one of them.

Since you seem to believe in the supernatural, are you are a supernaturalist?

This is from a regular dictionary. Read it.

I wasn't the one giving a definition for spirit that doesn't include the supernatural... I think that most dictionaries also include supernatural definitions. You say so yourself when you say that the word is usually used in a religious context.

Most people who write these dictionaries are bias in their interpretation. My aunt wrote dictionaries for a living. She is christian. I wouldnt be surprised if some of her bias influenced definition of words just as every other dictionary.

So, let's throw out clear definitions. Great way to NOT be understood. This is making a case for babble.

I never said it was a religious dictionary. Thats an assumption. I am not that type of religious person nor am I a fanatic or someone you may be familiar talking with. Dont treat me as such.

It would be an assumption, if I had it. I don't.

I don't think of you as how you seem to assume that I do. I ask tough questions. Asking a question isn't making a presumption. All too many people take OFFENSE and avoid the difficult questions, instead of thinking about them seriously. I come into a religious forum to think seriously about religious beliefs.

Some people have to close that door, I guess some can't bear to have their beliefs challenged in any way. That's how religious beliefs are protected. By DEFENDING against the tough questions instead of addressing them.

Case closed.

And so, all discussion is ended. I would rather keep my mind open in case I might learn something new.
To each his own, I suppose.

To all too many, keeping their beliefs safe from challenge is more important than learning something new.

The word means nothing to me. Why would I look it up? No one asked me for the definition. Im not doing a research paper. Its not a curiousity word for me. Why would Iook it up?

If someone chooses to close their minds, they are free to do so.

Which one, there are many regular (non religious) dictionaries I can quote from in addition to the one I just did for spirit. Whats your point?

We can look up the word "soul" just as easily as we can look up the word "spirit".

I never said they were supernatual. I dont see anything as supernatual. Please read my posts.

If we can't tell the difference between two opposing concepts, they both have no meaning at all. But it seems that your family takes all events natural.. even ghosts and gods.. Most people would call those "supernatural" events.

The word spirit is used in religious context.

It's also used in other contexts.

But I agree. sometimes, it's used in religious contexts. I have no idea what they mean... you seem to mean "breath"... well, breathing is a natural event in living animals, that we have a word for already. Like... excreting or sweating or blinking. Why you chose breathing for "spirit" instead of any of those is mysterious so far.

Religion in and of itself is personal.

But we have here a very PUBLIC site where people are all too happy to tell us all about their religious beliefs.

Religion describes a group of people having the same set of beliefs, but each and every person interprets these vague concepts personally. They have to . The words themselves have no meaning.

People adapt words to what make sense to them.

Yes, you have adapted the word "spirit" and you have not adapted the word "soul". Do you think that your definition for "spirit" is true for anyone else but yourself?

For example, the word god. Its used in countless different ways and definitions (just look at the DIRs).

I have looked, and continue to look at many dictionaries, most of which, by the way, have the entry "soul" as well as "God".
You might be mistaking me for someone who needs to be lectured on the fact that people have many strange ideas about gods, or that words have more than one possible meaning. I have to ask people what they mean when they use the word "God", too.

It's all babble to me.

So is "soul"
So is "spirit"

Polytheist say their gods are different than monotheist. Yet, I think, how are they two the same word but just different in numbers yet both inheritants have different definitions for this same word.

Yes, people who believe different things, DO, in fact, believe different things. Thank you for pointing that out. However, I don't see how it relates to the truth of your beliefs.

A lot of people believe strange things.

Anyway, its okay to have your opinion. Just dont do what a lot of religious do and put your opinions on others as if they are illogical or wrong in general. Thats your Personal opinion. Your bias. How you view reality.

We all have it.

I agree that it's OK to have opinions.. everyone in here is quick to offer us their beloved religious opinions .. but they aren't so QUICK to explain what they mean, or how it makes any SENSE to an outsider. Their choice if they don't.

But let's not pretend that they do when they don't.

When I ask people to EXPLAIN their beloved religious beliefs, so many choose to get insulted and run away, instead.

I ask difficult questions. A lot of people don't like that. I'm used to it... it's not a surprise to me at all.
In fact, that people take offense so easily is one of the HUGE problems that humanity faces today.
Instead of debating in a civilized manner, some people go so far as violence to protect their ideas.

I say .. stick around and talk, instead.

Some people make a case for not answering any questions that they don't like. That's a sign that they are closed minded and don't really want to think about their beliefs in case that they would ever have to change them. I am all too accustomed to that evasive tactic.

People usually take to heel when they see me coming.

IF I have offer an opinion, I will defend it, if challenged.
It's pretty obvious to me that many people don't care to defend their beloved and protected opinions.

If you are not interested in being in another persons shoes, dont ask questions....cause it seems like any answers you get, you will attack.

Thats mocking.

I might attack IDEAS but never the person. I don't really "attack" in any case.. people think that's what I'm doing, but I am not. I am challenging beliefs. Some people take that as an attack and get offended and then avoid the problems.

It's never too late to think about our cherished beliefs.

When someone takes offense and runs away from a discussion.. it never makes their case seem more reasonable, but the very opposite.

I am here.. I ask questions.. now it's up to the others to decide if they have any intention of answering them seriously.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I hear what you are saying. Remember, religious beliefs are personal most who make it their lives. When you ask difficult questions, especially online in a religious debate forum, you will expect people to have preassumptions that you are attacking their faith not asking to make them think. As such, when you notice that your questions spark a specific reaction from people, it may be easier to reword it if you are interested in getting a respectful answer. Both of you may not understand everything; and, at least the common foundation of respect in language (remember, online is different). I notice I have to phrase my words different... put things like "many, some, a lot of" etc to soffen what I say because it sounds like generalizations and if you talked with me in person (heard my voice) that isnt so.

My point is to be aware of how other perceive what you say and if desired, reword your questions if they are patient to continue the conversation.

I am NOTICING that people are more interested in attacking me for asking tough questions in a forum about discussing tough questions about religion THAN actually discussing tough questions about religions.

Sometimes I put "this is a sensitive question" or you would see some people put what audience they are refering to etc in their OP, for example to avoid things of this nature. You will find many christians (which is what most people I know on RF use as a example for their arguments) not talk much in conversations not because of the tough questions but because of how they are worded and preassumptions of attack.

I would never say that all beliefs are ridiculous. But some are.. we should really know the difference. IF I mock an idea.. it's really just the idea that I'm mocking. People who have bad ideas should abandon them.

Some beliefs are rediculous, I agree. In my opinion, if I thought about it and said which ones Id feel like Im talking about the people not the beliefs. Especially if they are beliefs people still practice today.

Why should they abandon the ideas you feel are bad? (remember, each person has a personal opinion not a fact)

Oh, so words aren't important. I thought you were giving us your definition for a word. I guess that didn't matter, then,
We can just go ahead and call anything anything we like, according to you. Well, now we don't have any MEANING, either.
It can "mean" anything we want.

I "call" meaningless talk .. "babble".

If I remember what what quote this was refering to, many religious have terms they define personally. Its not meaningless talk to us. Another thing people do here you will see more common is say "imho" or "imo" so whomever actually reads the post can step back and think this isnt about ME but about what the other person is saying.

Since you seem to believe in the supernatural, are you are a supernaturalist?

Haha.. I never heard of that before. I dont see anything supernatual. So, I guess thats your call?

And so, all discussion is ended. I would rather keep my mind open in case I might learn something new.
To each his own, I suppose.

To all too many, keeping their beliefs safe from challenge is more important than learning something new

Touch questions are fine but with my family, it takes on a different context. How you phrased your questions sounded more like mocking. As a result, it doesnt sound like questions about my beliefs about my family but an attack with our family beliefs.

They may seem rediculous or odd from an outsider; and, that doesnt disvalue it being logical to the person who holds that belief. I will need to reread what you post if youd like me to answer that particular question.

If we can't tell the difference between two opposing concepts, they both have no meaning at all. But it seems that your family takes all events natural.. even ghosts and gods.. Most people would call those "supernatural" events.

Exactly.

Yes, you have adapted the word "spirit" and you have not adapted the word "soul". Do you think that your definition for "spirit" is true for anyone else but yourself?

The definition of soul? I cant answer that. I dont understand what that means in context.

In my view, everyone has a spirit. However, I never tell people they are wrong based on how I see reality.

I have looked, and continue to look at many dictionaries, most of which, by the way, have the entry "soul" as well as "God".
You might be mistaking me for someone who needs to be lectured on the fact that people have many strange ideas about gods, or that words have more than one possible meaning. I have to ask people what they mean when they use the word "God", too.

It's all babble to me.

So is "soul"
So is "spirit"

I dont understand this comment? Whats it refering to?

I agree that it's OK to have opinions.. everyone in here is quick to offer us their beloved religious opinions .. but they aren't so QUICK to explain what they mean, or how it makes any SENSE to an outsider. Their choice if they don't.

The problem is that many outsiders may not ever understand it and that is something they have to accept. For example, I do not believe in any deities. I have tried wraping my head around different types of gods, definitions of gods, and so forth and it just doesnt figure into to my way of thinking of the world.

I asked my questions, tough to soft, and did my pondering and research and now I accept that that is one of many beliefs that I will never get. I dont say its rediculous, of course; and, I do find it quite odd, the idea in general. I do tell people that... but in a manner that hopefully they understand Im talking about the religion and not their faith or their relationship with the religion itself.

For example, instead of saying "god is rediculous. Why do you believe in something that doesnt exist"?

Id say more "I dont believe god exists. In my opinion, that is odd (for lack of better words), how did you come to belief this?"

or something to that affect.

Not everyone wants to keep it soft but online its best to lighten up a bit.



Also, I write long posts. I rather someone to take time reading my posts within the days they have time then pick and choose what they want to comment on. It makes it easier to explain my points without being misunderstood.

 

[atanu]

As I understand the Buddha, the "me" is the end-product of a "recipe" consisting of these combined "ingredients": 1. material body, 2. sensations, 3. perception, 4. mental formations, and 5. consciousness.

Which of these compose the "soul" or "spirit"?

Ingredients need to be known as ingredients. But does the story stop there? Let us find out.

 

[buddhist]

Ingredients need to be known as ingredients. But does the story stop there? Let us find out.

How do you propose that we should do that?

 

[McBell]

Thats like defining what god is. Its a word. I dont see anything behind it other than what others define it as as well as the dictionary.

I honestly wouldnt know where to start.

How did you start with spirit?