How can someone be a male and be a feminist at the same time?

[uberrobonomicon4000]

We are the worst judges of our own work. Just 'cause you think you were clear doesn't mean you actually were.

Well, you are. You're saying that they SHOULD stay segregated until they've worked out their own gender-based issues. I question the necessity for that, and say that men and women can work out their gender-based issues with each other, that is, regardless of gender.

FTR, I'm not really reading your debate with Dustin.

Nope, never not once. I think they can too.

 

[oldbadger]

That's strange. It would difficult to explain how bands like Crass, which were co-ed, openly wrote pro-feminism music/albums in the 70's/80's, and were from Britian...

I guess that's a past UK is interested in repressing.

This was the opinion of a group of feminists as reported by a feminist. It's different to yours, so obviously you will call it strange. She called your version 'inappropriate'.

Please don'r wave a music-band in the air as 'the norm' for Britain. We are all as individual as our fingerprints.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

This was the opinion of a group of feminists as reported by a feminist. It's different to yours, so obviously you will call it strange. She called your version 'inappropriate'.

Please don'r wave a music-band in the air as 'the norm' for Britain. We are all as individual as our fingerprints.

I like women feminist. They are always interesting and easy to get a long with. I would like to meet some of the feminist you met up with badger.

 

[oldbadger]

Well, as I said, the situation in the UK is likely very different than here in the States.

Hello again....
Maybe....... I've never been to the States....... Individual States may have variation in cultures, our counties can show variation as well.

They are effectively the same thing. There's only one difference: egalitarianism goes beyond gender inequality and addresses other issues.

Yes......... it does. To embrace all humanitarian issues from a wider perspective, the egalitarian viewpoint is very important. I think a lot of people would prefer to be thought of as humanist before, say, feminist. One person actually said to me, 'I'm a humanist', in a conversation about feminism.

IOW, egalitarianism is an umbrella term, and I think all of us are egalitarian. Feminism is a form of egalitarianism, focusing primarily on issues of gender inequality.

We are not all egalitarian. Our Tribunals and Courts run full time on issues and cases where people were not........ So do yours. To find a person who never makes a 'core error' is unusual.

However, there's something that really needs to be clear: feminism doesn't have any cut-and-dry rules or sets of values beyond supporting gender equality. There are variations on how extreme that's to be taken, what constitutes gender inequality, etc.

Yes, there are extreme variations about this. Some feminists include many matters to do with equality outside of 'gender' as feminism. I have read them on RF. But none have ever taken feminism to encompass all humanitarian equality issues. The egalitarians reach far beyond the feminist horizon.

To take more examples from video games, there are feminists who have real problems with games like Dead or Alive, whose only major contribution to the world was its pioneering work on breast jiggle physics(which pretty much violate every single actual law of physics... I, as a heterosexual male, honestly find it gross), and its beach vollyball spin-offs that are pretty much nothing but girls in super-tiny bikinis doing homoerotic things and pole-dances. But I don't have a problem with those games exactly because they are softcore porn; they're not meant to be taken seriously. But I do have a problem with all the cleavage-exposed super-horny women in the Witcher games, since that's a series where I am supposed to take the story and characters seriously; it's kinda hard to do that when women are throwing themselves at me every which way for doing relatively minor favors, even after they had previously told me that they were "decent" women.

I have not read these points previously, because egalitarians and humanists would want to address these issues as well. This comes within the egalitarian horizon.......... ergo, it cannot address the thread title.

So there are always going to be differences in opinions.

Yes there will be, but egalitarians will be agreeing with equality issues like this as well. You would not distance yourself from an alien group which agreed with one of your tenets...... would you?

I know my first sentence doesn't make sense, but it's how I interpreted yours.
We generally feel just as strongly about equality.

Of course.

One thing is absolutely clear: we have the same goals (and, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Britain is closer to full egalitarian society than we are.)

Don't know....... some Brits are, some not.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Point out exactly what I said that was 'discriminating' against you. Go ahead, please. Do one quote of where I do. Take the 'blinders' off of me.

Criticizing your argument, and substance of threads is not discriminating against you. I talk to you in plenty of other threads.

... snip ... snip ... drop scissors ...

3/10 for trying. I know I score high, but I don't believe anyone deserve a 0, 1 or 2.

If there is anything else you would like for me respond to let me know.

 

[oldbadger]

I like women feminist. They are always interesting and easy to get a long with. I would like to meet some of the feminist you met up with badger.

The approach of (some) feminists on revious threads when I first joined RF totally screwed my head. It needled me so much that I started my own personal survey amongst people that I have met in my part-time job. (I am retired).

I have only met with one 'angry' feminist in several months. The attitude of most people has ranged from 'indifferent to careless'. It seems that most people here have relaxed away from the title 'feminist', partly due to some successful legislation, partly due to changes in attitudes.

The word that utterly banishes the title 'feminist' in most groups, (I have noticed) and in both sexes is 'Egalitarianism'. An egalitarian will seek equality and fairness within humanity wherever and whenever possible. So this word seems to be an immovable rock against a weaker force. Well.......this is what I have found so far. It has been really interesting, but feminism (as a force for change) does not seem to be as strong as equality legislation or egalitarianism. It seems to be fading....... That's what I have felt in speaking to people here.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

The approach of (some) feminists on revious threads when I first joined RF totally screwed my head. It needled me so much that I started my own personal survey amongst people that I have met in my part-time job. (I am retired).

I have only met with one 'angry' feminist in several months. The attitude of most people has ranged from 'indifferent to careless'. It seems that most people here have relaxed away from the title 'feminist', partly due to some successful legislation, partly due to changes in attitudes.

The word that utterly banishes the title 'feminist' in most groups, (I have noticed) and in both sexes is 'Egalitarianism'. An egalitarian will seek equality and fairness within humanity wherever and whenever possible. So this word seems to be an immovable rock against a weaker force. Well.......this is what I have found so far. It has been really interesting, but feminism (as a force for change) does not seem to be as strong as equality legislation or egalitarianism. It seems to be fading....... That's what I have felt in speaking to people here.

Yeah, and now that you mention it, I would actually describe myself as an Egalitarian. I don't have a problem with feminism, but it just doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Riverwolf]

Nope, never not once. I think they can too.

You said so right here:

Women can handle their own issues and men can handle theirs. As in women can debate other women on topics that concern them just like men can. If there is to be some common ground between two subjects based on equality, then men shouldn’t interfere with the progress of women and women shouldn’t interfere with the progress of men.

Perhaps I misunderstood?

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

You said so right here:

Women can handle their own issues and men can handle theirs. As in women can debate other women on topics that concern them just like men can. If there is to be some common ground between two subjects based on equality, then men shouldn’t interfere with the progress of women and women shouldn’t interfere with the progress of men.

Perhaps I misunderstood?

So, is there a problem with that?

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

I think me and you are on the same page riverwolf.

 

[Riverwolf]

Hello again....
Maybe....... I've never been to the States....... Individual States may have variation in cultures, our counties can show variation as well.

Yes......... it does. To embrace all humanitarian issues from a wider perspective, the egalitarian viewpoint is very important. I think a lot of people would prefer to be thought of as humanist before, say, feminist. One person actually said to me, 'I'm a humanist', in a conversation about feminism.

We are not all egalitarian. Our Tribunals and Courts run full time on issues and cases where people were not........ So do yours. To find a person who never makes a 'core error' is unusual.

Yes, there are extreme variations about this. Some feminists include many matters to do with equality outside of 'gender' as feminism. I have read them on RF. But none have ever taken feminism to encompass all humanitarian equality issues. The egalitarians reach far beyond the feminist horizon.

I have not read these points previously, because egalitarians and humanists would want to address these issues as well. This comes within the egalitarian horizon.......... ergo, it cannot address the thread title.

Yes there will be, but egalitarians will be agreeing with equality issues like this as well. You would not distance yourself from an alien group which agreed with one of your tenets...... would you?

Of course.

Don't know....... some Brits are, some not.

Then we're all on the same page... and all egalitarians can accurately be regarded as feminists, as well, in a broad sense.

So, I'm a male, and a feminist.

 

[Riverwolf]

So, is there a problem with that?

I think me and you are on the same page riverwolf.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your wording, you seem to be flip-flopping. I get the sense that we're on the same page, too, and are going in circles of confusion and misunderstanding.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Unless I'm misunderstanding your wording, you seem to be flip-flopping. I get the sense that we're on the same page, too, and are going in circles of confusion and misunderstanding.

Well rest assure we aren't. I can only tell you that 100 times before you confuse it. ><

 

[Riverwolf]

Well rest assure we aren't. I can only tell you that 100 times before you confuse it. ><

...no, we are both getting confused, since I misunderstand what you say, thus causing me to say things that you misunderstand. Thus we're both going in circles.

Either way, we're both in favor of men and women being regarded as equals. Thus, we're both feminists in that sense.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

...no, we are both getting confused, since I misunderstand what you say, thus causing me to say things that you misunderstand. Thus we're both going in circles.

Either way, we're both in favor of men and women being regarded as equals. Thus, we're both feminists in that sense.

Okay, this is the thing. I will try to explain this the best I can before I go to sleep.

Feminism is usually regarded as being left wing, democratic liberals. You can fill in the rest of the blanks.

Egalitarian is libertarianism which is on the FAR right of the spectrum, past conservatives, but has an entirely different meaning than a conservative republican.

Confusing? Yes, and I can see why.

However, egalitarian deals with a wider variety of issues that neither repubs or dems in America take part in. So if you are going to refer to yourself as an Egalitarian you will have to refer to yourself as an independent. Meaning you don't take sides.

 

[Riverwolf]

Okay, this is the thing. I will try to explain this the best I can before I go to sleep.

Feminism is usually regarded as being left wing, democratic liberals. You can fill in the rest of the blanks.

Egalitarian is libertarianism which is on the FAR right of the spectrum, past conservatives, but has an entirely different meaning than a conservative republican.

Confusing? Yes, and I can see why.

However, egalitarian deals with a wider variety of issues that neither repubs or dems in America take part in. So if you are going to refer to yourself as an Egalitarian you will have to refer to yourself as an independent. Meaning you don't take sides.

I've never heard any of that. I don't associate feminism or egalitarianism, or any of that, with political spectrums or parties, and nobody I've ever talked to brings such things up, either. You're the first.

Feminism is nothing more than seeking to remove gender inequality insofar as is biologically possible. There's nothing left or right in that. They're beliefs. These beliefs can manifest in political movements, either in terms of having more or less governmental control, but not necessarily.

Any person who believes that men and women should be treated equally, in all respects beyond basic biological differences, can therefore be accurately considered a feminist. Politics don't enter into it, unless the particular issue in question is political.

I don't deal in political issues. I deal in social issues. That's where my feminism manifests.

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

I've never heard any of that. I don't associate feminism or egalitarianism, or any of that, with political spectrums or parties, and nobody I've ever talked to brings such things up, either. You're the first.

Feminism is nothing more than seeking to remove gender inequality insofar as is biologically possible. There's nothing left or right in that. They're beliefs. These beliefs can manifest in political movements, either in terms of having more or less governmental control, but not necessarily.

Any person who believes that men and women should be treated equally, in all respects beyond basic biological differences, can therefore be accurately considered a feminist. Politics don't enter into it, unless the particular issue in question is political.

I don't deal in political issues. I deal in social issues. That's where my feminism manifests.

Okay? :sarcastic

Then you aren't an Egalitarian and will remain a feminist and be lured into liberal ideologies and political theatre if you live in America.If you have never herd of this before then I would suggest doing some research instead of asking me questions about it.

THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO START!

 

[Lugard]

Please lets not get it all wrong: a male can be a feminist. It is not bad if it done in good faith, just the same way an adult can protect and support child right act.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well, this has been a strange debate the last several pages, indeed.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Well, this has been a strange debate the last several pages, indeed.

Hard to argue with the hard of think-uh, hearing.