How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

[CG Didymus]

Matthew 24:6-13
New International Version

6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

I do not agree that these verses imply what you think they do. They say we will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but that is not the end of what will happen because more things will happen: Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

All these things happened before Baha'u'llah came and during His lifetime. These are the beginning of the birth pangs of the new age which was ushered in by the Bab and Baha'u'llah in 1844..

It does not say that wars will not still be going on when Christ returns or after Christ returns.

If they continue to happen, then isn't it not yet the end?

 

[Skywalker]

The context might have been that He was leaving the world because He was going to the cross, but He would not have said I am no more in the world and the world seeth me no more if He was planning to come back to the world.

There is not one verse in the New Testament where Jesus says He is coming back to the world.
You can wait till hell freezes over and there will be no Jesus returning to earth. The prophecies have all been fulfilled so it is impossible for Jesus to come and re-fulfill them.

“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13

After Jesus died on the cross, he was no more in the world and in the world didn't see him anymore.

In John 21:22, Jesus told Peter about the apostle John, if I want him to live until I come, what is that to you?

 

[CG Didymus]

I don't believe that Bahulllah was the Messiah, because the Tanakh never mentions two Messiahs. People differ on whether the prophecies were to be fulfilled in one advent or not, but not even Zechariah 14:4 mentions two Messiahs. The interpretation that the verse is about Yahweh is consistent with the Jewish interpretation of the verse being about the Messiah, because Jesus being the Messiah wouldn't change the details about who the Messiah is.

I still think that the Baha'i concept of a "manifestation" of God and "Messiah" are pretty much the same... a divine being sent from God. So, if that is the case, then Baha'is have Muhammad and The Bab plus Jesus and Baha'u'llah as being "manifestations" "messengers" "prophets" and "Messiahs". Of course, I don't agree with them.

 

[Skywalker]

I still think that the Baha'i concept of a "manifestation" of God and "Messiah" are pretty much the same... a divine being sent from God. So, if that is the case, then Baha'is have Muhammad and The Bab plus Jesus and Baha'u'llah as being "manifestations" "messengers" "prophets" and "Messiahs". Of course, I don't agree with them.

The interpretation of Zechariah 14:4 being about Yahweh means that the Messiah is God, not a manifestation of God. Muhammad and Jesus are mutually exclusive people to believe in because Muhammad taught that Jesus isn't God.

 

[Trailblazer]

After Jesus died on the cross, he was no more in the world and in the world didn't see him anymore.

In John 21:22, Jesus told Peter about the apostle John, if I want him to live until I come, what is that to you?

I have no idea where Jesus was coming to, but it says nothing about coming back to earth. How could it mean that when Jesus was already there with His disciples?

19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

[Trailblazer]

then Baha'is have Muhammad and The Bab plus Jesus and Baha'u'llah as being "manifestations" "messengers" "prophets" and "Messiahs".

Muhammad and The Bab and Jesus and Baha'u'llah were all "manifestations" "messengers" "prophets" but only Jesus and Baha'u'llah were the Messiahs.

 

[Skywalker]

I have no idea where Jesus was coming to, but it says nothing about coming back to earth. How could it mean that when Jesus was already there with His disciples?

19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

That doesn't change the other explanations of the verses about the world seeing Jesus no more.

Jesus saying, "until I come", infers coming back to earth. Jesus was there with his disciples, but since he ressurected, it was assumed that he would ascend to heaven. John 21:22 and the second coming of Jesus are consistent.

 

[CG Didymus]

If Baha'u'llah fulfilled the prophecies, then the fact that his name means Glory of God is of lesser importance.

Here's a verse they use from Ezekiel 43:4 The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east.

They get both their prophets in with this one verse. The Bab, they say means "The Gate". And who is coming by way of the gate that faces East? It is the "Glory of God". And to top it off. Both of them came from Persia, which is East of Israel. I have no idea what this verse means or what the context is saying. All I know is that Baha'is and Christians sure like to find one or two verses that they can make into "Messianic" prophecies.

 

[Skywalker]

Muhammad and The Bab and Jesus and Baha'u'llah were all "manifestations" "messengers" "prophets" but only Jesus and Baha'u'llah were the Messiahs.

Zechariah 14:4 mentions Yahweh on the Mount of Olives. Do you think Bahulllah was Yahweh too?

 

[Trailblazer]

If they continue to happen, then isn't it not yet the end?

That depends upon what Jesus meant by "the end." Like many verses, those verses can be interpreted in different ways.

I believe He was referring to the end of the old age, which was the Prophetic Age, the Church Age, and the end of that old age would mark the beginning of a new age, the Age of Fulfillment of prophecy, the Messianic Age.

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars,
But the end of the old age is still to come
Then in the new age nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains of the new age.

Matthew 24:6-13
New International Version
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

 

[Skywalker]

Here's a verse they use from Ezekiel 43:4 The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east.

They get both their prophets in with this one verse. The Bab, they say means "The Gate". And who is coming by way of the gate that faces East? It is the "Glory of God". And to top it off. Both of them came from Persia, which is East of Israel. I have no idea what this verse means or what the context is saying. All I know is that Baha'is and Christians sure like to find one or two verses that they can make into "Messianic" prophecies.

Christian interpretations are simpler. Christians believe in the second coming of Jesus. Judaism believes in the Messiah fulfilling all the prophecies in one coming or there being two Messiahs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus saying, "until I come", infers coming back to earth. Jesus was there with his disciples, but since he ressurected, it was assumed that he would ascend to heaven. John 21:22 and the second coming of Jesus are consistent.

Dream on...... I have been posting to Christians for eight years and not one Christian ever said that verse refers to Jesus coming back to earth.
Believing Jesus will come again is not going to get Jesus to come again....

 

[Trailblazer]

Zechariah 14:4 mentions Yahweh on the Mount of Olives. Do you think Bahulllah was Yahweh too?

I see nothing about Yahweh in that verse.

 

[Skywalker]

That depends upon what Jesus meant by "the end." Like many verses, those verses can be interpreted in different ways.

I believe He was referring to the end of the old age, which was the Prophetic Age, the Church Age, and the end of that old age would mark the beginning of a new age, the Age of Fulfillment of prophecy, the Messianic Age.

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars,
But the end of the old age is still to come
Then in the new age nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains of the new age.

Matthew 24:6-13
New International Version
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Wars would continue until the end of the age. There would be wars during the church age and the age of the prophets. During the 1000 year messianic age there will be no wars.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, all I can say is Baha'is have very creative ways of interpreting and fulfilling prophecies. No wonder you don't want to deal with them. Yet, you and other Baha'is keep saying that Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophecies of all the major religions. Why say that when you can't and won't back up your "proofs".

You are not going to drop this Daniel prophecy are you? What do you think you are going to prove or disprove by analyzing it to death?

You say I won't back up the prophecies but that is not true, as I have explained all the other prophecies to the best of my ability.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT DANIEL
You just can't let it go. Why would my opinion matter anyway? You never answered that.

 

[Skywalker]

Dream on...... I have been posting to Christians for eight years and not one Christian ever said that verse refers to Jesus coming back to earth.
Believing Jesus will come again is not going to get Jesus to come again....

I don't think any of them discounted the second coming of Jesus as a possibility for that verse.

 

[Skywalker]

I see nothing about Yahweh in that verse.

Some translations mention Yahweh on the Mount of Olives.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think any of them discounted the second coming of Jesus as a possibility for that verse.

Why not throw it out there and ask them? You could start a new thread.

 

[Skywalker]

You are not going to drop this Daniel prophecy are you? What do you think you are going to prove or disprove by analyzing it to death?

You say I won't back up the prophecies but that is not true, as I have explained all the other prophecies to the best of my ability.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT DANIEL
You just can't let it go. Why would my opinion matter anyway? You never answered that.

Daniel didn't mention Bahaullah. Since Jesus mentioned coming on the clouds, it's more likely that the Messiah who comes on the clouds is Jesus and there are not two Messiahs.

 

[Skywalker]

Why not throw it out there and ask them? You could start a new thread.

I don't think there are any other beliefs of that verse other than the second coming of Jesus. Even people who don't believe in the Millennium kingdom believe that Jesus will come again.