How Can We Identify True Worship?

[anonymous9887]

You have to ask yourself 2 questions,

1) When didn't Jesus ever utter the word YHVH? He called Him Father and God.

2) When Jesus was teaching His disciples to pray, why did He say,

Mat 6:9 (ESVST) 7 "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 Pray then like this: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.

instead of saying something like, "Righteous Jehovah, hallowed be your name", or, "oh great Jehovah, hallowed be your name"?

Do you or any child you know ever call their dad by his personal name? Wouldn't that be disrespectful? Say your dad is awesome, does many wonderful things, is a great dad and you describe him to other people, what would you say, "he's my dad" or, "he's David"?

And according to the WT belief and teaching, only the 144,000 can call God Father, the great crowed can't. Because they are not Jesus' brothers, only the anointed are Jesus' brothers, therefore they are not children of God.

I say that is a misunderstanding.
I call him Jehovah god my heavenly father.
Next the name is foreign to other people, so in a sense we are introducing our father.

 

[anonymous9887]

Really, God didn't need Moses or Noah or any other person? Then why did He use them?

God did need to use a human to accomplish His tasks.

Gen 1:26 (ESVST) 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

God made man and gave man dominion over the earth. He told man to rule, He couldn't just come down and take over. He had to work thru man to get things done. If God could just come to earth and do what He wanted, why did Jesus have to be born of flesh? Why didn't He just appear somewhere and walk into town? No one would have know any different.



Jn 10:1-2 (ESVST) 1 " Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

The door is human birth.

God doesn't need anyone.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

God doesn't need anyone.

Then why does He use them?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I say that is a misunderstanding.
I call him Jehovah god my heavenly father.
Next the name is foreign to other people, so in a sense we are introducing our father.

Why did Jesus not say the word YHVH then? Why did He never say, "Jehovah God, my Father"?

 

[anonymous9887]

Why did Jesus not say the word YHVH then? Why did He never say, "Jehovah God, my Father"?

When they asked Jesus what was the greatest commandment?
What did he quote? Deuteronomy 6:4
Jesus quoted many passages that contained YHWH.
The manuscripts we have now are copies of the originals.

 

[anonymous9887]

Then why does He use them?

God created us and uses us out of love for his followers.
What a privilege for a speck of dust to be used by the creator.
The question is since you say god needs us, is god incapable of accomplishing these things himself? Yes or no?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

When they asked Jesus what was the greatest commandment?
What did he quote? Deuteronomy 6:4
Jesus quoted many passages that contained YHWH.
The manuscripts we have now are copies of the originals.

Yes, Jesus "quoted" OT scripture, when you "quote" something, you "quote" it as said, right? Other than "quoting" scripture, when did Jesus call God YHVH? What about Jesus praying to His Father in John 17, He never once addressed God as YHVH.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

God created us and uses us out of love for his followers.
What a privilege for a speck of dust to be used by the creator.
The question is since you say god needs us, is god incapable of accomplishing these things himself? Yes or no?

As God created everything and He owns everything, yes God is capable to do it Himself. As God gave mankind dominion over the earth, no He can't legally do it Himself, He has to use humans.

 

[anonymous9887]

As God created everything and He owns everything, yes God is capable to do it Himself. As God gave mankind dominion over the earth, no He can't legally do it Himself, He has to use humans.

Actually there was times when he did not use humans to pronounce judgement, Assyria was an example, when an angel killed 165,000. So no he doesn't need a human to accomplish something. There was times he used human, but he also did supernatural things through the angels.

 

[anonymous9887]

Yes, Jesus "quoted" OT scripture, when you "quote" something, you "quote" it as said, right? Other than "quoting" scripture, when did Jesus call God YHVH? What about Jesus praying to His Father in John 17, He never once addressed God as YHVH.

Maybe you do have a point but I do consider these things.
1. Jehovah used his name 7000 times in the bible for a reason.
2. When we use the title father, it can be misunderstood. For example if I say father a oneness pentecostal could think I am addressing jesus. With people we make sure we make known we are praying to Jehovah the father. Or some may believe we are praying to the father that belongs to the trinity.
3. In Jesus time all of the Hebrew text based religions believed in YHWH, now there is so many misunderstandings about him.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Actually there was times when he did not use humans to pronounce judgement, Assyria was an example, when an angel killed 165,000. So no he doesn't need a human to accomplish something. There was times he used human, but he also did supernatural things through the angels.

Why do you think God didn't just send an angel to lead the Israelite's out of Egypt? Why did He wait 80 years to use Moses? Why did Noah have to build the ark, why didn't God just make one appear?

Sure, God used angels to protect His people, when they couldn't do it themselves. The angel killed 185,000 people, why didn't God just use that angel to lead the people?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Wow apostates coming back! I'm new so I haven't seen that.

Yeah. Actually, three, who were close friends of mine. One was a shepherd; it took him 5 years to come back, but he did!
Another, disfellowshipped for apostasy, was reinstated and became my pioneer partner for two years. Man, did he know the Scriptures!
Another was disfellowshipped for sexual immorality (as most are), became apostate, then repented and came back.

It may be hard to grasp, but just remember: Manasseh was just about the worst apostate ever, but Jehovah accepted him back.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Maybe you do have a point but I do consider these things.
1. Jehovah used his name 7000 times in the bible for a reason.
2. When we use the title father, it can be misunderstood. For example if I say father a oneness pentecostal could think I am addressing jesus. With people we make sure we make known we are praying to Jehovah the father. Or some may believe we are praying to the father that belongs to the trinity.
3. In Jesus time all of the Hebrew text based religions believed in YHWH, now there is so many misunderstandings about him.

Great comment, Paul!

In discussing this,
You can ask people this question: What God did the Jews worship?
A: "Yahweh."
Then ask: Was Martha who was at Jesus' grave, a Jew?
A: "Of course!"
Then read John 17:20.

Talking about misunderstandings.....back then, everyone knew who God was, they just had to be taught who the Savior was.
Now, everyone knows who our Savior is, most just aren't taught who God is!

According to John 17:3, it means our life. For humans that have died, they'll be given a chance to learn about both Jehovah and Jesus in the Resurrection.

Keep up the good posts, my brother!

 

[Deeje]

Yeah. Actually, three, who were close friends of mine. One was a shepherd; it took him 5 years to come back, but he did!
Another, disfellowshipped for apostasy, was reinstated and became my pioneer partner for two years. Man, did he know the Scriptures!
Another was disfellowshipped for sexual immorality (as most are), became apostate, then repented and came back.

It may be hard to grasp, but just remember: Manasseh was just about the worst apostate ever, but Jehovah accepted him back.

Yes, Manasseh was not trying to fool God with his tears. No one can fool God. From the wickedness that God said was worse than that of the nations, Manasseh repented and was restored to his kingship, then he followed through and cleared out the false worship he set up. Repentance was backed up by action.

Apostates are a rather pathetic lot. They have never formed their own version of "the true religion", which is strange when all they do is whine about their time with us.

You can't unlearn the truth so they really have nowhere to go. They know that Christendom doesn't have the truth so, disgruntled and lost, all they can do is lash out at their former brothers and sisters. There is nothing positive or constructive in anything they say or do....just negativity and slander. Who really is their father?

Are they out preaching about God's kingdom as Jesus commanded? They know they should but where are they? Jesus said he would be with his true disciples to the end in the great commission.....why are they MIA?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

How can we identify true worship.

True worship involves the pursuit of Truth, that is knowledge, justice, love and beauty. All else is idolatry. Such worship takes you to God, even if you don't believe in God or know that' what's happening. That concept is an example of beauty.

 

[savagewind]

Such worship takes you to God, even if you don't believe in God or know that' what's happening. .

I believe this. I think it is the reason why it is written, "to disciple" for the way, the truth, and the life.

It is also written that they will "know Jehovah" so some people seem to understand that it means to have a personal relationship with Jehovah. But then they would be disregarding this; 1 Timothy 6:16.

Why so much written about knowing Jehovah? It is so people can be warned when they are not following the way, the truth, and the life.

I think it is obvious that seven men at Bethel are NOT the way, the truth, and the life.

 

[Shak34]

Apostates are a rather pathetic lot. They have never formed their own version of "the true religion", which is strange when all they do is whine about their time with us.

You can't unlearn the truth so they really have nowhere to go. They know that Christendom doesn't have the truth so, disgruntled and lost, all they can do is lash out at their former brothers and sisters. There is nothing positive or constructive in anything they say or do....just negativity and slander.

If you ever really listen, majority don't whine about their time with the witnesses. Majority of them use witness literature and the bible to show how wrong some of JW teachings are. Many will say that the positive that they do is getting the truth out. Unfortunately, witnesses keep old literature from the rest of the world and only members are allow the library discs. If lucky, a non member can get one, but that is very rare. The so called apostates get old literature out for everyone to see. Calling them pathetic and other demeaning names only serves to make you look worse, and puts you and your regilious beliefs in a negative light. Name calling helps no one!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

If you ever really listen, majority don't whine about their time with the witnesses. Majority of them use witness literature and the bible to show how wrong some of JW teachings are. Many will say that the positive that they do is getting the truth out. Unfortunately, witnesses keep old literature from the rest of the world and only members are allow the library discs. If lucky, a non member can get one, but that is very rare. They get old literature out for everyone to see. Calling them pathetic and other demeaning names only serves to make you look worse, and puts you and your regilious beliefs in a negative light. Name calling helps no one!

I have their WT library 2014 CD with all their literature from 1950 thru 2014. All their 2015 and 16 literature can be found on their website. But there are websites out there where you can get all their literature, even from the 1800's.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Maybe you do have a point but I do consider these things.
1. Jehovah used his name 7000 times in the bible for a reason.
2. When we use the title father, it can be misunderstood. For example if I say father a oneness pentecostal could think I am addressing jesus. With people we make sure we make known we are praying to Jehovah the father. Or some may believe we are praying to the father that belongs to the trinity.
3. In Jesus time all of the Hebrew text based religions believed in YHWH, now there is so many misunderstandings about him.

Jesus did not one time address His Father as YHVH, not one time. Was it not as important for Him as it seems to be for us to use that name?

 

[Shak34]

I have their WT library 2014 CD with all their literature from 1950 thru 2014. All their 2015 and 16 literature can be found on their website. But there are websites out there where you can get all their literature, even from the 1800's.

If you are not an ex witness it is amazing that you got it, it is not for public distribution.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200276165#h=3
Those websites are considered apostate.