How Can We Identify True Worship?

[savagewind]

If we are call ourselves disciples of Christ, then we have to act like him and go out searching for the lost sheep as he did

The people who Jesus gathered to him were destined from the beginning to be called. So we can't do as he did. Our job is different. FYI It was never written make disciples. That was added during the Great Apostasy and which JW think was nothing but to make way for the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Deeje]

Matthew 28:19, 20:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (NASB)

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (ESV)

"having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'" (YLT)

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (NIV)

How does one "make disciples of all the nations?" What is a disciple?

1. to be a disciple of one
   
   1. to follow his precepts and instructions
      
2. to make a disciple
   
   1. to teach, instruct
      

Strong’s Definitions:

μαθητεύω mathēteúō, math-ayt-yoo'-o; from G3101; intransitively, to become a pupil; transitively, to disciple,—be disciple, instruct, teach.

So Jesus' instructions to his disciples (his students) was to "teach" others what he had taught them. This is how Christianity spread. "making a disciple" meant teaching that one to be a follower of Christ....imparting his instructions.

What was the instruction in more detail?

Matthew 10:11-14:
"And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. 12 As you enter the house, greet it. 13 And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town."

The "true" disciples of Christ are the ones "doing" as they were instructed. This was a search and rescue mission, going town to town, village to village.
How were they to find out if someone was "worthy"....they listened and responded to the message of the kingdom when the disciples delivered it as they went "house to house". (Acts 5:42; Acts 20:20; Matthew 24:14) They were not to waste time with those who rejected the message, shaking the dust off their feet and moving on to the next house.

The Bible says that this "preaching" in "all the inhabited earth" was the thing that would distinguish those who took Jesus' words seriously from those who only talked about it.

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...for-you-to-ignore.186289/page-13#post-4738834
http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...for-you-to-ignore.186289/page-13#post-4738840

 

[savagewind]

So Jesus' instructions to his disciples (his students) was to "teach" others what he had taught them. This is how Christianity spread. "making a disciple" meant teaching that one to be a follower of Christ....imparting his instructions.

The "true" disciples of Christ are the ones "doing" as they were instructed. This was a search and rescue mission, going town to town, village to village.
How were they to find out if someone was "worthy"....they listened and responded to the message of the kingdom when the disciples delivered it as they went "house to house". (Acts 5:42; Acts 20:20; Matthew 24:14) They were not to waste time with those who rejected the message, shaking the dust off their feet and moving on to the next house.

A disciple is someone who stays by the teacher to be taught by him. You do not do that!
Jesus instructed them to be his disciples where ever they go. Do you remember after he died they scattered? To be a disciple means not to scatter away from the teacher. Who is your teacher? Please try once to be honest with yourself.

The Bible says that this "preaching" in "all the inhabited earth" was the thing that would distinguish those who took Jesus' words seriously from those who only talked about it.

You say the JWs are only true because they only preach. But you did not look up monopoly. Your group has a monopoly on preaching, teaching and "making" disciples.

 

[savagewind]

If another group decided to do as the JWs do everyone would think they are JWs so what would the point be? Another group would be standing for the bowing down to the gb of JWs. You are bowing to them.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

If you are not an ex witness it is amazing that you got it, it is not for public distribution.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200276165#h=3
Those websites are considered apostate.

I am not now, nor have ever been a watchtower affiliate. I am currently studying with a WT member though, have been for over a year now.

 

[Deeje]

A disciple is someone who stays by the teacher to be taught by him. You do not do that!

Jesus is our teacher...he is the one who appointed the slave...the Bible doesn't say that slave appointed himself. (Matthew 24:45) We are to accept the spiritual food served by the slave...we are not told to prepare our own meals or to feed ourselves only what is palatable, whilst refusing the rest.

We are to submit to those appointed to lead us. (Hebrews 13:17) So are we a cause for "joy" or "sighing" to them?

Jehovah has always used men to lead his people...those who questioned that leadership were not held in high esteem by God. Korah comes to mind (Numbers 16:1-3)....even Miriam. (Numbers 12:1-13) You think they didn't have good reason in their own minds to oppose what seemed wrong to them?

Jesus instructed them to be his disciples where ever they go. Do you remember after he died they scattered? To be a disciple means not to scatter away from the teacher. Who is your teacher? Please try once to be honest with yourself.

Speaking of honesty....Who is your teacher? Yourself? No Christians can exist in isolation away from their spiritual family. (Heb 10:24, 25) Who is your spiritual family? How often do you meet with them?....especially since the day is drawing ever nearer. Are you in full agreement with what they believe? (1 Corinthians 1:10)

You say the JWs are only true because they only preach. But you did not look up monopoly. Your group has a monopoly on preaching, teaching and "making" disciples.

O dear.....as if the preaching is the only way to identify Christ's disciples....John 13:34-35

http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODMusicVideos/pub-jwbon_201512_1_VIDEO

Obedience to all of Christ's teachings is what makes anyone his true disciples, as opposed to the ones who only think they are. (Matthew 7:21-23) Why does Jesus say that he has NEVER known those "many" who call him "Lord"?
Why does he call them "workers of lawlessness"? Whose laws are they breaking?

 

[Deeje]

I am not now, nor have ever been a watchtower affiliate. I am currently studying with a WT member though, have been for over a year now.

With the intent to stumble him and lie to him so as to glean ammunition for his opposition to post on sites like this...... Nice eh?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

As I posted before:
1. I agree that we should call him father and address him as such no problem.
2. In Jesus time he was speaking to Jews and old testament based religions, and of course maybe some people that believed in other gods.
3. The problem today is if I say father which father am I addressing? The father that belong to the trinity, the father in oneness pentecostalism which is Jesus, so when a JW says Jehovah god we know it is the father Jehovah being addressed the true god of the bible not a man made god.

I agree with you on your points.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

By his own admission, he got it by deceiving a poor trusting brother who thinks he is actually interested in studying the truth of God's word, when he is just stringing this brother along (who is volunteering his own time) lying to him so that he can undermine his faith and provide ammo for him to fire back at us....such an honest person with such good scruples, abusing the trust of someone who has no idea about his intentions. What does this say about a person's character?

Really? Please provide the post with my admission to deceiving this poor trusting brother into giving me the CD. I did not get it from him, and he doesn't even know I have it. Please get your facts straight before you start accusing me!

I am actually interested in studying the "truth", and I'm trying to get him to see the "truth".

Again, you accuse me of something you have no idea of. I have never lied to this man and I have all the ammo I need from my study of the watchtower, I get nothing from him.

What does it say about ones character when they accuse another of lying and deceiving, having bad intentions, abusing the trust of another, when they have no idea what goes on?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

With the intent to stumble him and lie to him so as to glean ammunition for his opposition to post on sites like this...... Nice eh?

Again with the false accusations! My intent is to save this man. and again, I am not gleaning anything from him, I have all the ammunition I need on this CD. That's a WT affiliate for you, trying to destroy a persons character so no one will listen to them.

You haven't the faintest idea what is said in any of our meetings, but you think you can accuse me of terrible things. What does that say about your character? Not a whole lot!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Yes, and 'target shooters' feed on them regularly in order to distort the truth. That is the "other table". It serves tasty poison. A distorted half truth is more damning than an outright lie.

And the other table is where watchtower affiliates eat. Because they don't eat at the same table as Abraham


*** w76 3/1 p. 158 Questions From Readers ***
Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and multitudes of other persons of outstanding faith had the hope of eternal life on earth, but this was not because they failed to measure up to the heavenly calling. They simply did not live in the time when the heavenly calling was in process according to Jehovah’s will. (Heb. 10:19, 20)


Mat 8:11-12 (ESVST) 11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Notice it says, "in the kingdom of heaven", not the "kingdom of God", so this isn't referring to the earthly paradise. It must be awesome to serve 7 men who are greater than Abraham or Noah or Abel!


Heb 11:13-16 (ESVST) 13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

Did all the faithful ones of old need the gb of the WT to show them they weren't going to heaven? It sure seems as though they were expecting to!

They knew they were strangers and pilgrims on this earth, they desired a heavenly country and God prepared a city for them.

 

[kerndog]

With the intent to stumble him and lie to him so as to glean ammunition for his opposition to post on sites like this...... Nice eh?

Yea Deeje, they are like what Paul warned the roman congregation about, the Jews and Greeks who were DISOBEDIENTand CONTENTIOUS , ...Romans 2:8...if you look up the word "CONTENTIOUS" (KJV), (YLT), and (NWT) The dictionary puts it as "Exibiting an often perverse and wearisome tendency to quarrels and disputes" ...pretty much what you you just described above !

 

[savagewind]

Jesus is our teacher...

Jesus is? How can you possibly be so dishonest but yet say your kind is who Jehovah will save?

 

[savagewind]

We are to submit to those appointed to lead us. (Hebrews 13:17)

Yes, but we are to submit to them the same as we are to submit to the secular authorities. If the Bible did not say, "submit' the fighting would be uglier than it is now. Oh yes! It is possible.

So are we a cause for "joy" or "sighing" to them?

Maybe you misunderstand. Freedom causes joy to the believer. By your believing it is your duty to cause THEM joy you are serving them and not God Jehovah.

 

[savagewind]

It is possible that a super apostate added Matthew 24:48 to the Bible during the Great Apostasy so that people WOULD believe God changed God's mind and appointed men to save the world

Oh, too bad! Jehovah's Witnesses can not prove that Matthew 24:48-51 is original scripture.

I wonder why that according to many people including the JWs, God protected the meaning of scripture all these years but didn't preserve the originals?
It would take a miracle, it is true, to cause deterioration to stop on the scrolls and books but it also would have taken many, many, many, many miracles to prevent inaccuracy from finding its way into scripture. Many, many, many.......................

If Jehovah had instead preserved the original WORD I would have the privilege of being a normal person now.

 

[savagewind]

Help me here please. Do I have this right?
I am delusional because I do not adhere to governing body of Jehovah's Witness's interpretation of scripture.
I think they have some very serious problems to correct. They won't.
But you are not delusional to believe that Jehovah would NEVER let anyone lie about God's Word.

We have a decent idea about the writing of scripture. We do not know much about the transmission of it. I can say for sure that the transmitting of it was accomplished by people in high places which really isn't God's way of doing things usually.
For every word to be understood and copied precisely would have taken a massive amount of miracles.

It would have been proper I think to instead of entering many men as they worked at the holy job of getting us scripture intact God could have sent one angel to stand by it in its original form.

And the other thing. To believe God's Holy Word was transmitted by Human is to deny one of the laws of Moses. Do you know which one?

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje Instead of thinking that because the governing body has not told you what law of Moses is involved with scripture transmission, ask Jesus what it means. Jesus is your teacher? Ask him!

 

[Shak34]

And please share with us what teachings you believe are wrong. Have you ever actually asked for an explanation or do you just blindly accept what apostates tell you?



So this is the great commission? Spreading slander and false accusations? (Matthew 5:11)
Where is the preaching about the kingdom? (Matthew 24:14)
Where is the "meeting together to incite to love and fine works"? (Hebrews 10:24-25)
Where is the good news? (Matthew 9:35-38)
All we hear is bad news and constant whining about how terrible we are.
Are one sided sob stories really the truth? How would you know? Can any judge make a decision about a case with just one side of a story? (Proverbs 17:15; Proverbs 18:13) Yet how many people are doing just that?

If the devil can make the perfect son of God look bad, what do you think he is going to be able to do with his imperfect disciples? Are we going to make mistakes? Did the apostles make mistakes? Its what humans do.
If you are waiting for us to be perfect...don't hold your breath. We are sinners just like everyone else.




"Old literature" is just that....like an "old" newspaper....good to look back on, but not necessarily up to date with what is happening now. (Proverbs 4:18) All anyone needs to know is posted for all to see on our website. JW.ORG



Telling the truth hurts no one but the liars and those who love the lies. People will believe whatever they want to be true. Those who can do nothing but destroy and tear down, rather than build something worthwhile and positive are rather pathetic in my estimation. What else would you call them? They are like vandals....unable to "construct" anything worthwhile, they "destruct" what others have worked hard to build. But one thing is for sure....nothing will hinder the work of God's spirit.

If we are call ourselves disciples of Christ, then we have to act like him and go out searching for the lost sheep as he did, and as he instructed his disciples to do. (Matthew 10:11-14; Matthew 28:19-20) Christians are a body who all work in harmony with one another. (1 Cor 1:10)...is this a description of Christendom?

This "witness" Jesus said, was to be given right up until the end of the system of things, which is now looming ever closer as the world falls apart. We all have to ask ourselves what Jesus will think of us when the judgment comes, because the "many" are going to be bitterly disappointed because they failed to "do the will of the Father". (Matthew 7:21-23)

If I go to a website and they quote a portion of an article I read it in its entirety. I know things can be misconstrued by only using parts so I do read the entire article. Like I said before the history and origin of a group is just as important as the now. IMO, The society made a huge mistake when they prophesied in the May 15, 1984 Watchtower article. I also remember every awake articles little foot note on page 4: "This magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 pass away."

The Governing Body are starting the resemble the Pharisees in Matthew 6:2, every new video seems to shout look at us, be like us, you can do nothing without us. (By the way that isn't slander just how they come across) When claiming to be the soul channel to God the question is no longer how imperfect they are, but how accurate is God. Are they making mistakes because God gave incorrect info or because they are putting in their own ideas.

I know there are many more things you brought up but since you refuse to see if they(people you call apostates) are doing any of that it is pointless to discuss it. Instead you resort to calling them slanders and liars, that is like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[savagewind]

Christians are a body who all work in harmony with one another. (1 Cor 1:10)...is this a description of Christendom?
1-23)

When I was Jehovah's Witness I did not know about the International Bible Students Associations. Why are the JWs not working with them?