How can we know "God" exists?

[Silver Wolf]

How so?

He becomes just another being, maybe the most powerful, the most knowledgeable, and so on, but just another being. If God was limited to a finite number of attributes, then he would be a limited being and therefore not God.

 

[Ouroboros]

He becomes just another being, maybe the most powerful, the most knowledgeable, and so on, but just another being. If God was limited to a finite number of attributes, then he would be a limited being and therefore not God.

And if he's made out of flesh and bones, he has cells and protein synthesis and requires nutrition. It doesn't make him/her very godlike or powerful. I mean, sure, why not, but is that I god really? Sounds like the old humanlike gods from ancient times, like Zeus.

 

[The Wizard]

BUT does that mean those experiences are not real? Of course not! Even a hallucination is a real experience. It just has no external objective reality. So an internal subjective spiritual experience can't be used to verify an eternal, objectively existing deity either. But the good news is THAT DOESN'T MATTER. Because what really matters is that the experience can be experienced and the effects of that experience can have tangible measurable effects!

The affects and effects of belief is infinite and countless.. either subtle and accumulative... or immediate result. That is because beliefs and experiences caused from beliefs are objective and therefore they objectively, create, move and animate people and things FOR REAL... We can find beliefs in the divine having their fingerprints of on everything, endlessly, in our world, it shapes the world, literally. Nothing imaginative or delusional about it.

The statue of Zues over there or perhaps that Great Pyramid and Spinx. Those items are partly there because of what? (take a wild guess).... Now, how about that person that went on vacation and looked at it (i.e... endless effects and affects will be created, objectively measurable from those actions and experiences, ad infinitum)... as of all that is affected when the person goes home and talks about it to others and shares pictures (i.e.... once again, more things being effected or imprinted with the beliefs in the Gods and Divine).... all the way down to someone sitting there reading this paragraph and moving their eyeballs.... It has its fingerprints on the cause and creation of all of it... We are reading this on a forum that says what in the title? Conversations because of what? All caused, in part, and existing due to what? (take a wild guess).

Survey says! Ding Ding Ding! Beliefs in God and the Divine..

How about reading a bible or studying an old religion? Will it not have a million effects along with physically growing a person's brain cells? I have to drive around a church. It is not imaginary! What will all that effect? This stuff is endless... What beliefs will create and cause... Beliefs in the Creator IS a creator itself... Watching people try to turn reality into nothing or just completely deny it has been quite entertaining, but sad in a way...

Am I saying that God does not exist in any external, objective sense? Of course not, I believe he does. But even if he didn't it doesn't really matter. What matters is that God exists in an internal, subjective way. Even if that were the only way God existed it is enough. And in this world it is all we really ever have. That doesn't make God any less real at all. Quite to the contrary. I know that God exists in this way beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is a fact. There is simply no argument that can refute this fact. It's not even a matter of faith but a matter of knowledge.

You're one of the first I've noticed here that is getting the objective part or reasons related to beliefs and so I was compelled to add my comment... with regards..

 

[Athan]

So where did God's bones come from? How were they formed? And how was God's flesh made?

Well, a former prophet of our church once said "Man is as God once was". Meaning, God also received a body the same way we did, and now He is in His perfect form.

 

[Katzpur]

He becomes just another being, maybe the most powerful, the most knowledgeable, and so on, but just another being.

I disagree. It is is power, knowledge and perfection that makes Him God. Whether He has a physical form or not is entirely beside the point. If God can cause the sun to shine and the rain to fall, and men to live again after they've died -- simply by willing it to be -- He is obviously not "just another being."

 

[Katzpur]

And if he's made out of flesh and bones, he has cells and protein synthesis and requires nutrition. It doesn't make him/her very godlike or powerful. I mean, sure, why not, but is that I god really? Sounds like the old humanlike gods from ancient times, like Zeus.

I didn't say He was mortal. He's not.

At any rate, I'm not even sure you and I are talking about the same being. Everything I say is related to the Christian God, a Godhead comprised of a Father, a Son and a Holy Ghost. Unless we're on the same page in terms of what we mean when we talk about "God," in the first place, I think we're going to just keep talking past one another. Now if you were a Christian, I could make my point based on various passages from the Bible, but since you're not, it would be like a Muslim trying to prove something to me by saying, "Well, the Qur'an says..." I'd just say, "So what?" Know what I mean?

 

[Ouroboros]

I didn't say He was mortal. He's not.

Zeus wasn't mortal. Zeus was immortal. That's what made him a god. But he was made out of flesh, blood, and bone like the rest of us. And he existed before us all. We were made in his image.

 

[Katzpur]

Zeus wasn't mortal. Zeus was immortal. That's what made him a god. But he was made out of flesh, blood, and bone like the rest of us. And he existed before us all. We were made in his image.

See, this is what I was getting at in my last post. We've actually strayed from the OP, which asked how we can know God exists, and we've headed down a different path, which is, "Sure, God exists. You just don't have a clue who He is." That's why I seldom get into theological discussions with non-Christians, and probably shouldn't have done this time either. There just isn't enough common ground to start with. I'm not trying to either backpedal or change the subject. It's just a topic on which you and I are going to continue to go around in circles on unless one of us drops out of the conversation. So, with that... see you on another thread.

 

[Ouroboros]

So, with that... see you on another thread.

Ok. Fair enough.

 

[SaudS]

Is there any evidence for God?

Is there any evidence of the number 0? Practically it doesn't exist, you can't see it. But it gives birth to alot of discoveries. Without 0, there would be no 1. It is the rational reference point, something that exists but is not there for you to see. But because it's there, you get to experience the number 1. Without the number 0, 1 would make no sense.
And so is the case with God. Without God; the world and all its features, the universe, everything would not make sense. If the world is there, there should be a God. Or else, it wouldn't make sense. No human in the history of mankind has been powerful enough to change seasons, make it rain, alter daytime. Some Being is at this, right? It's not just a system automated to suit preferences. This is a balance. And when things go wrong, the balance is enforced.

 

[Ouroboros]

Is there any evidence of the number 0? Practically it doesn't exist, you can't see it. But it gives birth to alot of discoveries. Without 0, there would be no 1. It is the rational reference point, something that exists but is not there for you to see. But because it's there, you get to experience the number 1. Without the number 0, 1 would make no sense.
And so is the case with God. Without God; the world and all its features, the universe, everything would not make sense. If the world is there, there should be a God. Or else, it wouldn't make sense. No human in the history of mankind has been powerful enough to change seasons, make it rain, alter daytime. Some Being is at this, right? It's not just a system automated to suit preferences. This is a balance. And when things go wrong, the balance is enforced.

...

So God is a zero, i.e. nothing!

 

[Mycroft]

How do you view God? As a literal metaphysical being in the sky? As a state of being? As a force that transcends all? Not literally real, but a symbol that points to something beyond what we can comprehend?

Is there any evidence for God? Scientific, anecdotal, philosophical or otherwise?

I think that the possibility of God is great, considering how organized and precise the universe is; but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I believe in God.

You can't. There is no evidence for god, any god, and there never has been. Nor will there ever be.

 

[Tiberius]

Yeah. No one can disprove God, but then again, no one can disprove Zeus either.

 

[Thief]

You can't. There is no evidence for god, any god, and there never has been. Nor will there ever be.

So then you just have to think about it.

and which came first?.....Spirit?...or substance?

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

How do you view God? As a literal metaphysical being in the sky? As a state of being? As a force that transcends all? Not literally real, but a symbol that points to something beyond what we can comprehend?

Is there any evidence for God? Scientific, anecdotal, philosophical or otherwise?

I think that the possibility of God is great, considering how organized and precise the universe is; but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I believe in God.

I go with:

As a state of being? As a force that transcends all? Not literally real, but a symbol that points to something beyond what we can comprehend?

Yeah, all of the above, all except for an elderly man sitting on a cloud/throne in Heaven surrounded by harp-playing angels...

I believe we cannot 'know' God and it's only recently I also stopped 'believing' in God, for I have reached the stage whereby 'belief' is no longer necessary.

I think God is what is left after everything else has been removed or negated as being 'not God'.

It's an indescribable state of being that one must experience to 'know'.

It's a 'knowing' that's not of the mind...it goes far deeper than that.

Therefore, God cannot be proven by science (although a lot of what science has discovered lately, can lead to the theory that there may be a God...see Dark Matter, Boson-Higgs etc)...so science can come close, but can't actually grasp it because they are 'looking in the wrong place'.

God cannot be proven by philosophy either, although Plato's Cave allegory comes very, very close to it and other philosophers have sniffed around it, but cannot actually eat it, because they are stuck in their own philosophies and ideologies..

Nah, God is personal.

 

[LuisDantas]

How do you view God? As a literal metaphysical being in the sky? As a state of being? As a force that transcends all? Not literally real, but a symbol that points to something beyond what we can comprehend?

God, as I see it, can only make sense as a symbolic concept. One that got seriously derailed since its conception, to the point that I defend avoiding its use entirely.

Is there any evidence for God? Scientific, anecdotal, philosophical or otherwise?

The concept exists, but there does not seem to be any good evidence that it corresponds to anything real. The closest I can think of is the existence and coherence of Mathematics, which oddly seems to never be raised as such.

I think that the possibility of God is great, considering how organized and precise the universe is; but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I believe in God.

This, I'm sorry to say, is not an argument to me. Available data strongly implies that the universe is not at all organized or precise, quite on the contrary. It is just that we exist with limitations that make us perceive it usually as if it were such.

 

[Wolke]

How can we know "God" exists?

What can we know that anything exists?

 

[Tiberius]

What can we know that anything exists?

By testing it. And by seeing if that testing is verifiable and repeatable.

For example, you want to test gravity. You can perform an experiment and tell me how you did it. I can perform the same experiment and I should get the same result.

How does one test God?

 

[Thief]

God, as I see it, can only make sense as a symbolic concept. One that got seriously derailed since its conception, to the point that I defend avoiding its use entirely.




The concept exists, but there does not seem to be any good evidence that it corresponds to anything real. The closest I can think of is the existence and coherence of Mathematics, which oddly seems to never be raised as such.




This, I'm sorry to say, is not an argument to me. Available data strongly implies that the universe is not at all organized or precise, quite on the contrary. It is just that we exist with limitations that make us perceive it usually as if it were such.

The 'form' is true to 'form'.
Confused the difference one element to another?

 

[Thief]

By testing it. And by seeing if that testing is verifiable and repeatable.

For example, you want to test gravity. You can perform an experiment and tell me how you did it. I can perform the same experiment and I should get the same result.

How does one test God?

Make denial until the hour of your last breath....view results.