How can YHWH be the FATHER?

[InChrist]

So killing the Pharaoh's son, a child, that would not be seen as barbaric in your eyes? So If I am to emulate YHWH, well, that would perfectly explain the state of the world today.

No, it would not perfectly explain the state of the world today. I think you may need to learn how to read the scriptures; asking and researching as you read… who, what, where, when, and why? All the scriptures, Old and New Testament, are valuable for learning, but all the verses, passages, and accounts are not applicable to every person in every time period of history.

It may seem barbaric to you that God killed Pharaoh’s firstborn son, but the account shows that Pharaoh had nine warnings before this judgment occurred. Besides that, prior to this Pharaoh had decreed that ALL (not only the firstborn) male infants of the Hebrews were to be killed.


“First, God gave Pharaoh and the Egyptians nine warnings, in the form of nine plagues, before He sent the plague that caused the death of the firstborn….”

“Second, Pharaoh and the Egyptians brought this plague on themselves by their own actions. Exodus 1:22 records a grim edict from the king of Egypt: “Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: ‘Every Hebrew boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live.’” That command was given prior to Moses’ birth. Eighty years later, Moses came to Pharaoh and asked for him to release the Israelites from slavery. There is no indication that the murdering of Hebrew boys ever ceased. How many thousands of Israelite sons had been murdered by the Egyptians? How many Israelite men and women had been murdered during the time of slavery in Egypt? In a way, the tenth plague and the death of the firstborn in Egypt was poetic justice for the targeting of Hebrew boys for slaughter.

There is no denying that the tenth plague causing the death of the firstborn of Egypt was severe. But, with the brutal slavery and countless Israelites murdered by Egyptians, whether as adults or as infants, the Egyptians brought God’s brutal judgment on themselves. God had promised Abraham, “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse” (Genesis 12:3). The Egyptians, in choosing to curse Abraham’s children, brought a curse upon themselves.”

How was the tenth plague, which caused the death of Egypt’s firstborn, just in the eyes of God? | GotQuestions.org

How was the plague causing the death of the firstborn of Egypt just in the eyes of God? How was God killing all of the firstborn sons of Egypt not an exceedingly evil act?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So killing the Pharaoh's son, a child, that would not be seen as barbaric in your eyes? So If I am to emulate YHWH, well, that would perfectly explain the state of the world today.

Remember that for the overwhelming majority of human history, collective punishment was the norm. It was considered perfectly moral. The oldest known admonition against it was Ezekiel, with his "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share in the guilt of the father, and the father will not share in the guilt of the son." This idea did not gain in popularity until the Enlightenment. So while it may seem perfectly obvious to you that killing Pharaoh's son is not an acceptable way to punish Pharaoh, try to keep in my that back then no one would have batted an eye.

 

[Feedmysheep]

I disagree , we can learn feom his sayings in many ways and not limit to certain one.

Did I say we were limited not to understand His words in many ways.
That seems the opposite of what I did say about "the unsearchable riches of Christ as the Gospel".

There is the logos and the instant speaking of the rhema. That is God speaking
expressly to someone in a detailed and intimate way. The living God stands behind the written word.
The living God breaths fresh spiritual life into the words often directly to oue situation.

Yes , but Jonah is not the same as Genesis.
Exodus is a also different feom Genesis.

I mentioned Jonah as an oft disbelieved account in the OT.

Jesus is God , he does not have to read History.
He witnessed it

I don't understand this. Being God He transcends time in such a way that His foreknowledge covers all human history.
The story of Joseph in Genesis is a strong example of God knowing the end from the beginning.

His foreknowledge of what the Israelites would go though in Egypt future to His conversation with Abraham also is
evidence of His transcendence over time.

And He said to Abram, Know assuredly that your seed will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and they will serve them; and they will afflict them four hundred years. But I will also judge that nation, whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. (Gen. 15:13,14)

You say mythic people , can you define mythic?
I don't judge you btw.

A very techincal discusion on what is myth I don't intend to get into.
I used "myth" to mean an account founded only on human imagination like a fable or legend.

This is just silly.

The reasoning is not silly at all.

Jesus is God , he does not have to know the accounts of Genesis

Just to let you know I don't pay attention to little emoji graphics. I look to the words written.

Jesus as God-man teaches Himself that before Abraham came into being He is the "I Am".
Saying that He would not know what occured in the time of Abraham and before makes no sense to me.

Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am. (John 8:58)

Why would the great uncreated "I am" not know all that had taken place from eternity past?
I believe this God-man at moments when the Father deemed it necessary, knew all things before His birth.

He knew of the glory He had with the Father before the world came into being.

And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5)

Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

Sodom and Gamora existed , and someone there did some staff that Sodom and Gamora were 'famous' for
I don't belive in such literal reading and anyone who tries to make them more then mythical is doing heresy.

Oh dear, the heresy word out so soon. "Silly" and "heresy" out already.

Jesus took those judged by God in Sodom as real people who with the contemporary audience in Capernum
would stand together in a great divine judgement.

You're asking me to believe historical and mythical people will be together on that day of judgment.

I belive that the Gospels are reliable because of History , not because of faith.
You have confused Theology with History.

Some kind of false dichotomy of mutual exclusion is going on there.
E.g. "If history than faith is not needed."

His resurrection is both history and the seal of His being God-man.

Is your God-man Jesus dead and gone?
The gospel is that He is alive and available as "life giving Spirit" to be imparted into our very being.

the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45b)

And the Lord is the Spirit; (2 Cor. 3:17a)

There is no Christian life where a man has not received the divine life imparting Spirit to cause them to be born of God.

Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. (Rom. 8:9c)

Christ makes His home in our spiritual / psycholgical heart through faith.

That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, (Eph. 3:17a)

Ok , so Jesus is God.
We both agree , what's the issue , the literal reading?
I don't agree with it , there is much evidence to think otherwise , much more then the literal one.

Okay. But you do trust Christ to the extent that you literally take His word that He is a man and God?



The judgment day is not a day it's a moment on the cross.
Christ came , twice , once as a man , once ressurected.
He is not comming back as he never left in the first place.
Christianity is not a belief based on loss it's a belief based on victory.

This paragraphs contains some truth and some error.
It contains some have truths.

Yes, He said He would be with us until the consummation of the age. So in one sense He is not absent, not gone.
And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age. (Matt. 28:20b)

Yes, He is "organically" joined to each believer in his or her innermost spiritual being.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. ( 1 Cor. 6:17)

And in His resurrection He lives within the believers and receivers of Him.

I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.
Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live.
In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. (John 14:18-20)

But we should learn not to make one part of the Bible fight down another part.
On the other hand He will appear a second time physically.

For just as the lightning comes forth from the east and shines to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matt. 24:27)

And at that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (v. 30)

How about I believe BOTH? How about I except both without prejudice of one truth against the other?
He is living in me -
Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved? (1 Cor. 13:5)

And He will appear in His second coming -
So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time to those who eagerly await Him, apart from sin, unto salvation. (Heb. 9:28)

And await His Son from the heavens, whom He raised from the dead, Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath which is coming. (1 Thess. 1:10)

How about I reserve the right to believe ALL that the Bible has taught me about Christ - both His indwelling as "a life giving Spirit" and
His second coming to establish His manifest kingdom over the globe?

You know Paul urged Timothy to hold to the whole truth without preference or partiality.
I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels that you keep these things without prejudice, doing nothing by way of partiality. (1 Tim. 5:21)

I learn to say "Amen!" to everything and all in the word of God without partiality.
That has been the way of greatest blessing for me.

Going through the Bible like a super market deciding to what suits my taste and what doesn't I have graduated from.
Using one portion to fight down another portion leads to a skewed prejudiced view.
Such a lopsided reception of the Scripture tells more about the strivings of one's own soul than about God.

I do not expect to "like" everything I read in this book (or library if books if you wish).
I expect and even enjoy when it steps on my toes.
I don't think there has ever been a person who liked everything written in the Bible without exception.
I think everyone has problems with something in the Bible perhaps they wish was not there.

I let the word of God be above me. I do not seek to set myself above the Bible.
Rather than sit in judgment of the Bible I prefer to submit and bring my ego under the Scripture to convict and minister to me.

 

[teage]

Remember that for the overwhelming majority of human history, collective punishment was the norm. It was considered perfectly moral. The oldest known admonition against it was Ezekiel, with his "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share in the guilt of the father, and the father will not share in the guilt of the son." This idea did not gain in popularity until the Enlightenment. So while it may seem perfectly obvious to you that killing Pharaoh's son is not an acceptable way to punish Pharaoh, try to keep in my that back then no one would have batted an eye.

How many Israelite's survived the wilderness? Keep in mind that according to scripture, ppl lived for hundreds of yrs in those days. I don't think they got what they were promised.

 

[Feedmysheep]

So killing the Pharaoh's son, a child, that would not be seen as barbaric in your eyes? So If I am to emulate YHWH, well, that would perfectly explain the state of the world today.

I see the slaying of the firstborn as justice for what Pharoah did.
You know he ordered to have all the Hebrew boys killed as soon as born.

And though God slew the firstborn whose parents would not believe to take shelter in a house
with the blood of the lamb across the entrance, that does not mean these firstborn's eternal destiny was punishment.

And this killing of the Egyptian firstborn came as the last of ten lesser warning plagues.

I get the distinct impression that you are going through the Bible to find reasons to condemn God.
It is like a man sitting down to a turkey feast only to hunt for bones to choke on.

 

[teage]

I see the slaying of the firstborn as justice for what Pharoah did.
You know he ordered to have all the Hebrew boys killed as soon as born.

And this killing of the Egyptian firstborn came as the last of ten lesser warning plagues.

I get the distinct impression that you are going through the Bible to find reasons to condemn God.
It is like a man sitting down to a turkey feast only to hunt for bones to choke on

I believe what YESHUA said to be true, given the time he was in, he could not say WHO or he would have been killed, so he hinted. This is why he has not once ever mentioned the FATHER as Yhwh. But he did give good description. You can see the problems by reading the OT and you can confirm them with the NT. I mean honestly, if you believe that YESHUA is in fact GOD in the flesh, Which I DO, can you then imagine him saying
"
I will attack them like a bear robbed of her cubs – I will rip open their chests. I will devour them there like a lion – like a wild animal would tear them apart.

Hosea 13:8" ?

And then the beast to be described in those words in Revelation?

 

[Brian2]

The Bible does not support YHWH as the FATHER. It does however support him as the Adversary.

He lied to Adam and Eve.

Genesis 3:1.......................He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You[a] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The serpent said that Eve would not die and YHWH said that eating the fruit would result in death. Adam and Eve ate and are now dead.

Adam and Eve could hear YHWH moving about so they hid.

YHWH could not find Adam and Eve?

Just because God called out to Adam and Eve, that does not mean that He could not find them and did not know where they were.

Adam and Eve come out from hiding to greet YHWH. It doesn't specifically say, but one can gather that it was face to face. Jesus says more than once that no man has seen the FATHER.

Jacob seen YHWH face to face, even wrestled him. Again, Jesus says more than once no man has seen the FATHER.

Moses has talked to YHWH face to face, as a friend. That is pretty clear no metaphor needed. Again, Jesus says more than once that no man has seen the FATHER.

When YHWH is seen in the OT we know for a start that it is a representation of God that is seen, since we are told that God is invisible and that nobody has nor can see Him.
Nevertheless the scriptures tell us that people saw YHWH. If this YHWH is not the Father then maybe it is the Son.

They asked Jesus the FATHER'S name. He does not tell them. Jesus says we don't speak the FATHERS name as it is holy(pure). Jesus says that even he does not speak his FATHER'S name. So who is this YHWH?

Where do they ask Jesus the Father's name?
Where does Jesus say that we don't speak the Father's name?
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed. 6 I have revealed Your name to those You have given Me out of the world.

The FATHER is Holy, he is without sin, YHWH is by his own words a jealous God, and angry, and murderous.

YHWH says with his own words in
Hosea 13:8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs; I will tear open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild beast would rip them open.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.
I believe Revelation 13:2 speaks for itself.

God does not say that He is "murderous".
God is however the creator and judge of all people and as such can impose whatever sentence He deems just. This is not murder.

 

[GoodAttention]

So killing the Pharaoh's son, a child, that would not be seen as barbaric in your eyes? So If I am to emulate YHWH, well, that would perfectly explain the state of the world today.

It could be argued that Pharoah was "tricked" into believing all first-borns did in fact die.

That is to say they didn't die, or that the death is metaphorical for the end of the Rameside line of Pharoahs.

 

[blü 2]

Sorry, I have not read the Bible in Hebrew, although most people believe it was originally in Greek. Was the New Testament Written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek?

According to my reading, the Tanakh was written mainly in Hebrew with some parts in Aramaic.

And the NT was written only in Koine Greek (the language of administration and commerce in Roman Judea &c, and also influential in literature). There was formerly a claim that the gospel of Matthew (in Greek) was a translation from a lost Aramaic original, but I gather it has little or no support among scholars these days.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How many Israelite's survived the wilderness? Keep in mind that according to scripture, ppl lived for hundreds of yrs in those days. I don't think they got what they were promised.

I have no idea. I'm not even entirely convinced that the story about wandering in the wilderness is historical.

No one has ever lived for hundreds of years.

 

[Kenny]

Which word is plural?

The words in question are מ֥וֹת תָּמֽוּת -- Hebrew is read from right to left, so it would be transliterated mot tamut.

As i've quoted elsewhere (more than once) ...

... Robert Alter offers:​

​

But from the tree of knowledge, good and evil, you shall not eat, for on the day you eat from it, you are doomed to die.​

​

noting ...​

​

16-17. surely eat ... doomed to die. The form of the Hebrew in both instances is what grammarians call the infinite absolute: the infinitive followed by a conjugated form of the same verb. The general effect of this repetition is to add emphasis to the verb, but because in the case the verb "to die" it is the pattern regularly used in the Bible for issuing death sentences, "doomed to die" is an appropriate equivalent.​

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that tamut is future tense "you (masculine singular) will die."

I’m not sure how “future tense” changes the meaning as it is in relation to “if” as an example of “If you rob a bank you will go to jail” - future tense. The eating came after (future)

If, as I hold to, separation from the God of Life is death, then indeed the separation from the Spirit of God from the spirit of man was an instant death. The reality that what we see is made from that which we cannot see (God) - then the physical (what we see) comes after what we can’t see (spiritual) - thus in dying you will die.

If you want to see additional understanding

Dying You Shall Die: The meaning of Genesis 2:17

When I was a district pastor, one of the more interesting elements in my work was fielding questions about a word or phrase from the original biblical languages. Like first year Hebrew students, members have unparalleled access to Internet and software resources that enable them to know enough...

www.ministrymagazine.org

Additional documentation I found:

Death. Augustine: God, referring to the forbidden fruit, said to the first man whom he had established in paradise: “In the day that you shall eat of it, you shall die the death.” His threat included not only the first part of the first death, that is, the soul’s deprivation of God; not only the second part of the first death, that is, the body’s deprivation of the soul; not only the whole of the first death in which the soul, separated from both God and the body, is punished; but whatever of death is up to and including that absolutely final and so-called second death … in which the soul, deprived of God but united to the body, suffers eternal punishment
Louth, A., & Conti, M., eds. (2001). Genesis 1–11 (p. 62). InterVarsity Press.

Then we have different translations:

Young's Literal Translation
and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

Literal Standard Version
but from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, you do not eat from it, for in the day of your eating from it—dying you die.”

Douay-Rheims Bible
But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. for in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death.

Obviously, just because a translation says it doesn’t make it so, so I would go back to the link for better understanding.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Kenny]

If you look a bit deeper about life coming out of the earth, you may notice that it was
out of the land which rose up from underneath the death waters on the THIRD DAY.

Amazing application! Thank you.

 

[teage]

No one has ever lived for hundreds of years.

Sure we can't prove it, just like we can't prove GOD exists but it doesn't matter really, were going by the text. I guess you could put it like this, if Moses survived, they all should have survived. Only 2 made it, not counting Moses. 2 out of an estimated 4 million.

 

[Kenny]

So killing the Pharaoh's son, a child, that would not be seen as barbaric in your eyes? So If I am to emulate YHWH, well, that would perfectly explain the state of the world today.

There is a caveat in this historical event...

Exodus 12:23
For the Lord will pass through to strike the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and not allow the destroyer to come into your houses to strike you.

As I see it, God’s grace had been over Egypt over a long period of time until Pharaoh’s heart grew so hard, it reach the stage of no return. The Destroyer had always wanted to kill, steal and destroy Egypt. Though the were worshipping Satan through the different deities, God’s mercy was holding Satan back.

Having reach the place of no return, it isn’t “God killed Pharaoh’s son” but rather He simply let Pharaoh follow the god(s) he served and, as it is required from those god(s), they demanded the sacrifices of children, he reaped the product of the god(s) he served. It was Satan (the Destroyer) who actually killed the children.

God actually, saved children as the Destroyer went about murdering by the covering of the blood. Again, even the children of Israel were serving the same gods but their hearts were not hardened - God’s mercy still covered them. Who is the murderer? As Jesus said,
John 8:44a
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning,

 

[teage]

John 8:44a
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning,

Jesus is speaking to very religious ppl. They are telling Jesus that they follow the only "God". They even go on to insult Jesus. Jesus is telling them that they are following the wrong "God". Jesus is saying "Your Father, not my Father". If you read the whole chapter you will pick up on this. YHWH certainly is THE murderer from the beginning(Genesis)

 

[Dimi95]

Did I say we were limited not to understand His words in many ways.
That seems the opposite of what I did say about "the unsearchable riches of Christ as the Gospel".

There is the logos and the instant speaking of the rhema. That is God speaking
expressly to someone in a detailed and intimate way. The living God stands behind the written word.

The word of God is Jesus , not the Bible.
Jesus did not write the Bible.
I belive in his teachinga , not on words written in a Book.
Especially when people consider the Bible to be infalible.
What is in the Bible is Holy , not the Bible itself.

The living God breaths fresh spiritual life into the words often directly to oue situation.

Good said.
I am going to ask you so i can be sure..
Are you giving me the sermon of Christianity?
Because i am a Christian , you don't have to.

I am an Orthodox if you want it better , and i know much about theology since Orthodox church never changed from Christian central doctrine , from the time of the Apostles.
In Christendom it is the only church that never changed Theologically.

My morality is not subjective , it is objective.
Obviously that means what i belive as a Christian, an Orthodox one.

I mentioned Jonah as an oft disbelieved account in the OT.


I don't understand this. Being God He transcends time in such a way that His foreknowledge covers all human history.
The story of Joseph in Genesis is a strong example of God knowing the end from the beginning.

Yes , God does not need stories from Genesis , Exodus , Jonah , Psalms.

Omnipotence describes an all-powerful god, and omniscience refers to an all-knowing god.

His foreknowledge of what the Israelites would go though in Egypt future to His conversation with Abraham also is
evidence of His transcendence over time.

In formal sense , that's a prediction.
In religious sense , it is prophesy.
Jesus does not refer specific knowledge in specific Book but he refers to places and names of persons.

And He said to Abram, Know assuredly that your seed will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and they will serve them; and they will afflict them four hundred years. But I will also judge that nation, whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. (Gen. 15:13,14)

God spoke to Abraham , good , i know that..
Anything else?

A very techincal discusion on what is myth I don't intend to get into.
I used "myth" to mean an account founded only on human imagination like a fable or legend.

Well , i learn also something from these Books , if they are of use , why not?
I am just saying that is their use.
But they should not be interpretated as literal stories.

The reasoning is not silly at all.

Just to let you know I don't pay attention to little emoji graphics. I look to the words written.

Ok,sir.

Jesus as God-man teaches Himself that before Abraham came into being He is the "I Am".
Saying that He would not know what occured in the time of Abraham and before makes no sense to me.

Jesus is not God-man.
He is God incarnated in flesh and bones.

"God is not a man , that he should lie;
Neither the Son of Man , that he should repent."

It is probably because this is more spiritual to you , which is OK , i don't have anything against it.
But i look it in different way.

The reason i said that Jesus is not a God-man is because what that word can lead people to think..
For example in Orthodoxy it is heresy to say that Marry is the Mother of God.
God does not have a mother or a father..
The title that is atributed to Marry is God-bearer , or in Greek "Theotokos" or in Cyrilic "Богородица".

Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am. (John 8:58)

Why would the great uncreated "I am" not know all that had taken place from eternity past?
I believe this God-man at moments when the Father deemed it necessary, knew all things before His birth.

Where does Jesus talks about issues in Genesis?

He knew of the glory He had with the Father before the world came into being.


And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:5)

Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

The person of the Son had the glory of the person of the Father , you mean ?
Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Do you know the terms kenosis and theosis?

Oh dear, the heresy word out so soon. "Silly" and "heresy" out already.

Heresy is just false teaching or error in teaching , nothing more , it is not a sin.

Jesus took those judged by God in Sodom as real people who with the contemporary audience in Capernum
would stand together in a great divine judgement.

Jesus is God.
He judged them

You said Jesus took those judged by God and it sounds like they are not the same essence.

Why would you then quote 'Before Abraham was , I am'.. in your answer?

You're asking me to believe historical and mythical people will be together on that day of judgment.

No i don't belive in the judgment day as you do.
The judgment day is the day when our spirit leaves our body.
We don't perceive information the same , regardless of the fact that we are both Christians.

That 'judgment day' that you talk about is a moment , on the Cross.
I repeat again , Christianity is a belief based on victory , not on loss.

Some kind of false dichotomy of mutual exclusion is going on there.
E.g. "If history than faith is not needed."

No , i did not always had faith in God, i found about his grace in History and that grace worked through my faith and the works that i do.

His resurrection is both history and the seal of His being God-man.

He is not God-man.
These terms are heretical

"The word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."
John 1:14

Is your God-man Jesus dead and gone?
The gospel is that He is alive and available as "life giving Spirit" to be imparted into our very being.

I never said that.
This is straw-man.

the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45b)

And the Lord is the Spirit; (2 Cor. 3:17a)

There is no Christian life where a man has not received the divine life imparting Spirit to cause them to be born of God.

And you get that by traditional Christian sacrament.
In orthodoxy we are baptized at very , very young age.
I was baptizes before i was 1 year old.
The Church has the authority to give it as a gift in prayer.

Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. (Rom. 8:9c)


Christ makes His home in our spiritual / psycholgical heart through faith.


That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, (Eph. 3:17a)

NO!
Through grace.
Grace works within faith.

Okay. But you do trust Christ to the extent that you literally take His word that He is a man and God?


The judgment day is not a day it's a moment on the cross.
Christ came , twice , once as a man , once ressurected.
He is not comming back as he never left in the first place.
Christianity is not a belief based on loss it's a belief based on victory.

This paragraphs contains some truth and some error.
It contains some have truths.

Yes, He said He would be with us until the consummation of the age.

And that is the victory on the cross.
For death came through Adam , and life came through Jesus Christ.
He beat his last enemy - death!

So in one sense He is not absent, not gone.
And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age. (Matt. 28:20b)

Matthew 24:34 says otherwise
"Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened
In this passage it talks about the 'end times' and destruction of the Tample.

 

[Dimi95]

Yes, He is "organically" joined to each believer in his or her innermost spiritual being.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. ( 1 Cor. 6:17)

And in His resurrection He lives within the believers and receivers of Him.

Correct
There is no judgment day to be expected where we will be all gathered , but rather each of us has has his own moment when our spirit leaves this body.

I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.
Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live.
In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. (John 14:18-20)

And i know this.

But we should learn not to make one part of the Bible fight down another part.

I don't fight the Bible , you do.
The Bible is not the word of God.
God is the word of God.
"In the begining was the Word , and the Word was with God , and the Word was God."
In the Begining was not The Bible..

On the other hand He will appear a second time physically.

He did.

John 20
"Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came.So the other disciples told him, 'We have seen the Lord!'

But he said to them, 'Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.'

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you!' Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.'

Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'

Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'

Why did he bless those who havw not seen?

I will answer later the other part

 

[Feedmysheep]

I believe what YESHUA said to be true, given the time he was in, he could not say WHO or he would have been killed, so he hinted.

But they did seek to kill Him. And He walked right into thier plot full knowing what His fate was to be.
Am I right?

Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes. And they will condemn Him to death And deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised. (Matt. 20:18,19)

It was more a matter of timing. He would not deliver Himself up to them before the appropriate time.
He spoke of His hour or His hour had not yet come. Then when His hour came He willingly turned Himself over to torture and death.

Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and said to them, Whom do you seek?
They answered Him, Jesus the Nazarene. He said to them, I am. And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them.

When therefore He said to them, I am, they drew back and fell to the ground.
Then again He asked them, Whom do you seek? And they said, Jesus the Nazarene.

Jesus answered, I told you that I am; if therefore you seek Me, let these go away,
That the word might be fulfilled which He spoke, Of those whom You have given Me, I have not lost one. (John 18:4-9)

It is more that He did not submit Himself to His redemptive death until the time was exactly right.

This is why he has not once ever mentioned the FATHER as Yhwh. But he did give good description. You can see the problems by reading the OT and you can confirm them with the NT. I mean honestly, if you believe that YESHUA is in fact GOD in the flesh, Which I DO, can you then imagine him saying
"
I will attack them like a bear robbed of her cubs – I will rip open their chests. I will devour them there like a lion – like a wild animal would tear them apart.

Hosea 13:8" ?

Do you feel that Jesus distanced Himself from the God of the Hebrew Bible here?

Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! (Matt. 23:37)

It was always God Himself who cared for jerusalem, as a bird flutters over her young (Isa. 31:5; Deut. 32:11-23).
So when Jesus said, "I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings,"
He definitely that He was the OT God Himself come as a man.

But this was not the end. This God-man became the "pneumatic" Christ as the divine life imparting Spirit to dispense
God's life into us who believe. That is the God-man came to dispense God into us to produce brother "God-men".

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)

Athanasius, one of the early church fathers, said concerning Christ, "He was made a man that we might be made God,"
and "The Word was made flesh . . . that we, partaking of His Spirit, might be deified."

This is the central theme of the Bible and God's work on earth. God's move is in man and through man. God's move is
to deify saved humanity, making man God in life and in nature but not, in the Godhead. This journey of God from
eternity into a man and then in resurrection into man is that the communicable attributes of God may become the life and
expression of man. The non-communicable attributes remain of the Godhead alone. But Christ came that we who believe into
Him might become brothers of Himself as the Firstborn Son of God. This is according to His purpose.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers;

And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Rom. 8:28-30)

O

 

[teage]

Do you feel that Jesus distanced Himself from the God of the Hebrew Bible here?

I believe he was trying to open their eyes to the truth.

When the elyown(the most high) divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. Deuteronomy 32:8

For YHWH's(the Lord's) portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. Deuteronomy 32:9

1. YHWH has a FATHER and was given this world.
2. YHWH is the God of this world. YHWH says so over and over.
3. Jesus did not laugh in Satan's face when Satan offered all the kingdoms of the world.
(5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.)
(6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.)

Luke 4:5-6

 

[Feedmysheep]

Correct
There is no judgment day to be expected where we will be all gathered , but rather each of us has has his own moment when our spirit leaves this body.


And i know this.


I don't fight the Bible , you do.
The Bible is not the word of God.

When we come to the Scripture we should come to Christ simultaneously - to touch Christ, to fellowship with Christ, and to find Christ in
its pages. The religionists searched the Scriptures but would not come to the living one to whom the Scriptures point and lead.

You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that testify concerning Me.
Yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (Jon 5:39,40)

While the Spirit can be abstract the word of God gives us a handle to grab onto this abstract Holy Spirit.
So the word is the sword of the Spirit. The sword furnishng us with a concrete "handle" to seize up and weld the Spirit.

And receive the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which Spirit is the word of God, (Eph. 6:17)

God is the word of God.

Surely, God being available to our experience through His word, for all practical purposes makes touching the word in our spirit
the touching of the living God.

How do you feel about this verse saying God magnifies His word above His name - so vital is His word?

For You have magnified Your word above all Your name. (Psalm 138:2c)

I understand that the paper clips, leather binding, paper pages, and slime cloth marker is not God Himself.
I understand not wanting to make an idol of the physical Bible.
But do you go too far?
Do you throw out the baby with the bathwater?

I dare say you believe that Christ is God BECAUSE of what the Bible told you.
The living Spirit of God breathed His life into the words of your Bible and the miracle of faith arose in your heart.
I am pretty sure.

Now, as you believed in the resurrection and the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ, why do you stop short of believing
in His coming at the consummation of the age?

You say "No judgment to expect."
You say "No second coming beyond His appearing in the room to take up Thomas on his challenge."

I can only sigh and say "Keep reading. Keep believing"

Okay, the leather bound or hard bound book on your shelf is not literally God. I got that.
But what I think you want is "the Holy Bible" not a Bible full of wholes.

If there is no resurrection then Christians are the most pitied deceived people.
But if there is no second coming then there is no conclusion to history and no consummation for His living in His redeemed people.

He comes both for fearsome judgment on His opposers and to be glorified and marveled at IN His overcoming saints.

And to you who are being afflicted, rest with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of His power, in flaming fire,

Rendering vengeance to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His strength

When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed (because our testimony to you was believed) in that day. (2 Thess. 1:7-10)

"In the begining was the Word , and the Word was with God , and the Word was God."
In the Begining was not The Bible..

Sure. One day we can toss our physical Bibles into the lake of fire.
That day is not here yet. And you believe Jesus is God incarnate because the Bible told you and God granted you revelation.

Don't over react. Don't recoil against superstition to an excessive overreach.
Put a Bible into the hands of the ones seeking the truth. And show them how to take the word of God by means of prayer - praying over
what is read in the Bible. That is Paul instructed us to take the word of God by means of all prayer, mixing our reading of Scripture with prayer.

And receive the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which Spirit is the word of God,
By means of all prayer and petition, praying at every time in spirit and watching unto this . . . (Eph. 6:17,18)

Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'

Why did he bless those who havw not seen?

How about I believe John 20 and also believe Matthew 24?
How about I hold them equally true, valid, crucial, critical,?

How about I resist the obsession that reasons "Well because the resurrection is so significant we have no need of His second coming".

That is how divisions and denominations arise - preferences over the revealed truths.
How about take Paul's wise word about "ALL Scripture"?

All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
That the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16,17)

Better still, how about I take the words of the Lord Jesus that we live by everything that proceeds from the mouth of God?

But He answered and said, It is written, “Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that proceeds out through the mouth of God.” (Matt. 4:4 comp. Deut. 8:3)