How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[Subduction Zone]

I think it’s amazing that God is so incredibly big and patient that He allows room for differences and for each believer to mature in Christ and their understanding of the scriptures at various rates and stages. Since church groups are composed of all kinds of individual Christians from a huge array of backgrounds and at different points in their walk with the Lord, it makes perfect sense to me that there is such diversity. Yet, some of the groups you listed and included are clearly not biblical Christians, but cults which control their members and require conformity.

Yes, but openly stating which ones are cults can get you in trouble here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The No true Scotsman fallacy is a weak argument, in my opinion.

That too, and ironically he may belong to one of the cult groups. One sign of almost all cult groups (but this alone does not make them a cult) is a very literal interpretation of the Bible. For example the cults tend to interpret the myths of Genesis literally.

 

[ppp]

Blameless and upright and one who shuns evil doesn’t mean sinless. In the context of the scriptures, we a person who fears God knows they aren’t perfect before a Holy God and are aware they need God/ a Savior/Messiah.

It's a Hebrew work. Arguably the oldest in the Jewish Bible. None of your Christian ideas are relevant. He was sinful in the same way that you are tlazolli for failing to maintain balance in the the Aztec religion.

 

[ppp]

Yet, some of the groups you listed and included are clearly not biblical Christians, but cults which control their members and require conformity.

Aside from appealing to your interpretations of the Bible, how can we tell that they are not Biblical Christians? Aside from appealing to your interpretations of the Bible, how can we tell that you are?

 

[CG Didymus]

Aside from appealing to your interpretations of the Bible, how can we tell that they are not Biblical Christians? Aside from appealing to your interpretations of the Bible, how can we tell that you are?

One thing I've heard some Jews say is that a person that is a Biblical Jew can't believe in Jesus and Christianity, because he didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies. So, it all depends on what a person wants to believe, and how literally they want to believe it.

All I needed to hear from a Jewish friend was that the virgin birth story is supported by only one out of context verse in Isaiah. But does that bother "true" Christians? Of course not, they believe that one verse and are somehow unconcerned about the rest of the verses.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Matthew 19:4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

is about marriage and divorce. It says nothing about the Eden story.

I’m glad I found this…

You should begin to worry when you agree with atheists on Biblical topics….

He “made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

Just who exactly do you think are “them”? Who was “made”, do you think?

Also, who was Jesus speaking to? They knew who Jesus referred to.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’m glad I found this…

You should begin to worry when you agree with atheists on Biblical topics….

He “made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

Just who exactly do you think are “them”? Who was “made”, do you think?

Also, who was Jesus speaking to? They knew who Jesus referred to.

I would say that a theist should worry when he claims his God is a liar by insisting that stories that are perhaps morality tales had to really happen.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, but openly stating which ones are cults can get you in trouble here.

Yeah, well I’m speaking from my own experience. Before being saved and set free by Jesus Christ, I was a member of the LDS or Mormon church. Repeatedly, I heard and experienced the cult-like ideas and mentality that took place. For example: the Mormon Church emphasizes and takes pride in the fact that every Sunday, in every Mormon ward or branch, anywhere in the world, everyone is on the exact same Sunday school lesson. I used to think that was so great… until I got out and realized what a big indicator of a cult that was; complete uniformity and conformity.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I would say that a theist should worry when he claims his God is a liar by insisting that stories that are perhaps morality tales had to really happen.

It’s your misunderstanding, of many things, that makes it seem so. But I can’t help that.

It’s taken awhile, but your revered master Science is gradually coming around to support some details the Scriptures reveal in a few important ways: with regard to the concept of God’s eternal nature, and the idea that all humans living today descended from one woman, called “mtEve”, and then later from one man, called “y-chromosome Adam.”

Can you figure out who science has discovered? Off by a few thousand years, but at least discovered.

Gotta love it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The only legitimate grounds for a divorce is if there is an aversion for each other.

After God binds two people, there should not be any divorce. The later manifestations, Muhammad and Bahaollah, did not hear Allah correctly.

 

[Trailblazer]

I’m glad I found this…

You should begin to worry when you agree with atheists on Biblical topics….

He “made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

Just who exactly do you think are “them”? Who was “made”, do you think?

Them are males and females.

Also, who was Jesus speaking to? They knew who Jesus referred to.

Jesus was speaking to the disciples. We know that because they responded to Him as such:

Matthew 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

 

[Trailblazer]

After God binds two people, there should not be any divorce. The later manifestations, Muhammad and Bahaollah, did not hear Allah correctly.

God's Laws change over time in accordance with the necessities of the times:

“The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.” Some Answered Questions, p. 48

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, well I’m speaking from my own experience. Before being saved and set free by Jesus Christ, I was a member of the LDS or Mormon church. Repeatedly, I heard and experienced the cult-like ideas and mentality that took place. For example: the Mormon Church emphasizes and takes pride in the fact that every Sunday, in every Mormon ward or branch, anywhere in the world, everyone is on the exact same Sunday school lesson. I used to think that was so great… until I got out and realized what a big indicator of a cult that was; complete uniformity and conformity.

Okay, but you appear to have jumped from one false version to another.

If you understood the Bible you would see that if one reads it very literally that it only refers to the Earth as Flat in word and deed. It never implies that it is a globe. But you probably know that the Earth is a globe. You do not make the error of interpreting the Bible too literally in that sense.


But you run into the same problems if you interpret the Genesis myths literally. We know that there never were only two people. We know that we are the product of evolution. We know that there was no global flood, in fact to such an extent that people that claim that there was such a flood are also claiming that their God is a liar, though they do not know it. The evidence against it is so global, not just around the Earth ,but global in the sense of knowledge that God would have had to have lied endlessly by planting an unending amount of false evidence covering up his evil deeds.

Both you and the Mormons have "beams" in your eyes that you cannot see.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It’s your misunderstanding, of many things, that makes it seem so. But I can’t help that.

Oh my, you have to know that is not true. You keep being wiped out in debates. You should know that you have nothing by now.

It’s taken awhile, but your revered master Science is gradually coming around to support some details the Scriptures reveal in a few important ways: with regard to the concept of God’s eternal nature, and the idea that all humans living today descended from one woman, called “mtEve”, and then later from one man, called “y-chromosome Adam.”

No, you are merely misinterpreting a result of population dynamics where they chose a name from mythology to explain how we all can trace our descent, by the male line, to one individual. Y-Chromosome Adam was not the only male alive at that time. There were still many thousands of people at that time. I am sorry if you cannot understand how lines of descent work

Can you figure out who science has discovered? Off by a few thousand years, but at least discovered.

Gotta love it.

No, It is mere more science that you do not understand. But since it is such an immensely long list that should not worry you too much.

Y-chromosome Adam was a totally different person fifty thousand years ago, and he was a different person fifty thousand years before that. It is a person that was the last common ancestor in the male line for a specific time. As one goes back in time who Y-Chromosome Adam was would keep shifting backwards in time too.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Them are males and females.

Come on.
No. Jesus was quoting Genesis 2:24. So who is that account about?
The “them” was Adam & Eve. They were “made.”

Jesus was speaking to the disciples. We know that because they responded to Him as such:

Matthew 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

In the interests of accuracy… Jesus was addressing the Pharisees. Vs.3.

But Jesus was traveling with his disciples.

.They knew without a doubt that Jesus was referencing A&E.

 

[CG Didymus]

After God binds two people, there should not be any divorce. The later manifestations, Muhammad and Bahaollah, did not hear Allah correctly.

Her answer of "God's laws change over time" has some problems. It is still people in different cultures and religions do their own thing. God's supposed new laws don't change that. God's new laws don't apply to anybody but those that believe in the supposed new prophet.

So, if God in 622AD thought it best for men to have four wives, why doesn't God make it clear to everyone the world over? He doesn't. This law of the one true God didn't fit all people in all societies and cultures. But if it was a law that God thought right, why wasn't it meant for all? And then not changed until The Bab and Baha'u'llah came?

No, I still go with people in each culture and society make their own laws. Unless conquered by a different people that believe in a different religion, the people stay with their own laws and beliefs. Where Islam didn't conquer, people didn't follow this supposed new law of God that allowed men to have four wives. And I wonder if outside of the Middle East, if other Moslems followed that law?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Remove that last part, and what's left but a god that chooses to punish man due to no fault of his own?

To be fair, Yahweh is not portrayed as the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[InChrist]

Okay, but you appear to have jumped from one false version to another.

If you understood the Bible you would see that if one reads it very literally that it only refers to the Earth as Flat in word and deed. It never implies that it is a globe. But you probably know that the Earth is a globe. You do not make the error of interpreting the Bible too literally in that sense.


But you run into the same problems if you interpret the Genesis myths literally. We know that there never were only two people. We know that we are the product of evolution. We know that there was no global flood, in fact to such an extent that people that claim that there was such a flood are also claiming that their God is a liar, though they do not know it. The evidence against it is so global, not just around the Earth ,but global in the sense of knowledge that God would have had to have lied endlessly by planting an unending amount of false evidence covering up his evil deeds.

Both you and the Mormons have "beams" in your eyes that you cannot see.

I disagree with your perspective. The Bible doesn’t really address the structure of the earth, but nothing in the biblical scriptures actually supports the idea of a flat earth and there’s just as much or more to indicate a globe.
As far as all the things you claim to be known…
…”We know that there never were only two people. We know that we are the product of evolution. We know that there was no global flood, in fact to such an extent that people that claim that there was such a flood…”

I say you do not KNOW. You were not there. Those who study such a distant past were not there. So it’s conjecture. At best such ideas about such early history are an educated guess and even these are influenced by one’s initial biases.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you run into the same problems if you interpret the Genesis myths literally. We know that there never were only two people. We know that we are the product of evolution. We know that there was no global flood, in fact to such an extent that people that claim that there was such a flood are also claiming that their God is a liar, though they do not know it. The evidence against it is so global, not just around the Earth ,but global in the sense of knowledge that God would have had to have lied endlessly by planting an unending amount of false evidence covering up his evil deeds.

"We" know that but most Christians do not know that, since their religion depends upon those being literally true. Take a way Adam and Eve and original sin and what do you have left? Christianity come crashing down like a house of cards. What do you have Jesus dying for on the cross?

 

[Trailblazer]

Come on.
No. Jesus was quoting Genesis 2:24. So who is that account about?
The “them” was Adam & Eve. They were “made.”

I do not believe that Adam and Eve were "made" because I do not believe that Adam and Eve ever existed. I believe the Bible story in Genesis is allegorical.

“We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.” Some Answered Questions, p. 123​

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To read the entire chapter: 30: ADAM AND EVE​

I believe that humans evolved around 200,000 years ago, so the first man and first woman existed long before the allegorical Adam and Eve of the Bible.

W A S H I N G T O N,   Nov. 14, 2000 -- Science may have caught up with the Bible, which says that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of all humans alive today.​

​

But in the scientists’ version, based on DNA analysis, “Adam,” the genetic ancestor of all men living today, and “Eve,”the genetic ancestor of all living women, seem to have lived tens of thousands of years apart.​

​

Read more: Genetics Suggest Modern Female Came First​

In the interests of accuracy… Jesus was addressing the Pharisees. Vs.3.

But Jesus was traveling with his disciples.

They knew without a doubt that Jesus was referencing A&E.

How do you know that the Pharisees knew that?