How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[CG Didymus]

What "prophetic" cycles?

“The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.”

Some Answered Questions, p. 48​

Sabaeans? Why include them if Baha'i know so little about them? Then most of the others are from the Middle East with two coming from India. Some "modified" and "altered" a previous religion, but none of them modified or altered all of them. And some of them, the ones from India, had nothing to do with the Abrahamic religions. And the big mistake Baha'is made with this chart is by saying Krishna was the founding prophet of Hinduism.

I'm staying with my belief that each people and culture made up their own gods and religion but that there was some borrowing of some things from other people.

And religions of large empires, like those in China, and religions of the Greeks and Egyptians and many others are not included. And I wouldn't be surprised if Baha'is agreed with me and said that those religions and their gods were made up by the people.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

My point is that a savior doesn’t need a particular something to save you from.

I think that it's important to remember that Jesus' savior story is just one among many and, in my opinion, isn't any more credible than those that predate it. As I explained in my previous post in this thread (read it here), a search on Google will help you learn more about Jesus in comparative mythology.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I guess what’s discouraging is that non-believers won’t even admit to the obvious, basic truth revealed in the scriptures, that all are sinners in need of a Savior.

I would rather learn from a God than read some books.

 

[InChrist]

I would rather learn from a God than read some books.

What if God decided to reveal information to you/humanity through written language?

 

[InChrist]

Too many things go wrong to consider Yahweh a competent creator.

What if God has valid reasons for allowing things to go wrong…for now? Or temporarily letting humans see the consequences of their wrong choices?

 

[ppp]

What if God decided to reveal information to you/humanity through written language?

That would be an unwise decision. Books cannot establish the credibility of their own contents; at least not with regards to that which is supposed to be objectively real.

 

[InChrist]

That would be an unwise decision. Books cannot establish the credibility of their own contents; at least not with regards to that which is supposed to be objectively real.

Unless, God’s written words are different …


…For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Are you saying that you have never sinned or know people who are sinless? If not, then the Bible is accurate in pointing out the reality that everyone does sin, therefore credible in that regard.

This cannot be true because Job was sinless by God’s own admission.

 

[InChrist]

This cannot be true because Job was sinless by God’s own admission.

I’m not aware of anywhere that God admits Job was sinless.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That would be an unwise decision. Books cannot establish the credibility of their own contents; at least not with regards to that which is supposed to be objectively real.

Especially if the books contain tales of a talking serpent and talking donkey, as well as the story of a man living in the belly of a big fish for three days.

 

[ppp]

Unless, God’s written words are different …

They're not. If there are any words out there in the public sphere that are the words of a god, they are indistinguishable from any other unsubstantiated words.

…For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

That is a fine example of what I am saying.

• Enlil, in his wrath, sought to destroy all of mankind, yet Utnapishtim was saved by the wisdom of Ea.
• "Apollo, friends, Apollo— he ordained my agonies—these, my pains on pains!"
• "Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying life: bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky."
• "Ilmarinen, famous blacksmith, skilled and ancient wonder-worker, forged with cunning art an eagle, iron-bird, with metal plumage."

The only reason that you think more of your quote is that it is a religion that you already support and cleave to. Each of the line I have quoted move me more than yours. And I don't believe those either.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

This cannot be true because Job was sinless by God’s own admission.

The Bible doesn't exactly state that Job was sinless, but it does state that he was blameless and upright and that he feared God and shunned evil.

 

[ppp]

I’m not aware of anywhere that God admits Job was sinless.

"blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil" (Job 1:1, NIV)
It's a Hebrew text. The Christian concept of Sin does not apply. One has to read it (and I love saying this) in context.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What if God decided to reveal information to you/humanity through written language?

It would be nice if one did. But the ones that claim to have done so tend to fail in soooooooo many ways. They show themselves to be just the work of man.

 

[InChrist]

It would be nice if one did. But the ones that claim to have done so tend to fail in soooooooo many ways. They show themselves to be just the work of man.

I guess we’ll see.

 

[InChrist]

The Bible doesn't exactly state that Job was sinless, but it does state that he was blameless and upright and that he feared God and shunned evil.

Yes, that’s what it says.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It would be nice if one did. But the ones that claim to have done so tend to fail in soooooooo many ways. They show themselves to be just the work of man.

There are numerous versions of the Bible (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Protestant, which include multiple different English translations). I believe that the failure of the Bible's authors to be more clear in their writings is the reason why Christianity is so vastly divided among Catholics, Messianics, Anglicans, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a vast assortment of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Seventh-day Adventist, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches. It is clear to me why Christians are so divided and why they separate themselves into different churches. They adhere to different doctrines and biblical interpretations.

In my opinion, it's clear that Christians rarely agree on biblical interpretation, let alone on church dogmas such as salvation, eternal life, a proper baptism, female pastors, the end times, and their dispute about which Christians are true Christians and which are not (e.g., "Who are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and what are their beliefs?"). The list goes on. The constant arguing and backbiting among Christians are as old as Christianity itself (1 Corinthians 1:10–17).

 

[InChrist]

"blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil" (Job 1:1, NIV)
It's a Hebrew text. The Christian concept of Sin does not apply. One has to read it (and I love saying this) in context.

Blameless and upright and one who shuns evil doesn’t mean sinless. In the context of the scriptures, we a person who fears God knows they aren’t perfect before a Holy God and are aware they need God/ a Savior/Messiah.

 

[InChrist]

There are numerous versions of the Bible (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Protestant, which include a multitude of different English translations). I believe that the failure of the Bible's authors to be more clear in their writings is the reason why Christianity is so vastly divided among Catholics, Messianics, Anglicans, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a vast assortment of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Seventh-day Adventist, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches. It is clear to me why Christians are so divided and why they separate themselves into different churches. They adhere to different doctrines and biblical interpretations.

In my opinion, it's clear that Christians rarely agree on biblical interpretation, let alone on church dogmas such as salvation, eternal life, a proper baptism, female pastors, the end times, and their dispute about which Christians are true Christians and which are not (e.g., "Who are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and what are their beliefs?"). The list goes on. The constant arguing and backbiting among Christians are as old as Christianity itself (1 Corinthians 1:10–17).

I think it’s amazing that God is so incredibly big and patient that He allows room for differences and for each believer to mature in Christ and their understanding of the scriptures at various rates and stages. Since church groups are composed of all kinds of individual Christians from a huge array of backgrounds and at different points in their walk with the Lord, it makes perfect sense to me that there is such diversity. Yet, some of the groups you listed and included are clearly not biblical Christians, but cults which control their members and require conformity.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think it’s amazing that God is so incredibly big and patient that He allows room for differences and for each believer to mature in Christ and their understanding of the scriptures at various rates and stages. Since church groups are composed of all kinds of individual Christians from a huge array of backgrounds and at different points in their walk with the Lord, it makes perfect sense to me that there is such diversity.

I'd expect that to be your personal opinion and belief since you are a Christian.

Yet, some of the groups you listed and included are clearly not biblical Christians, but cults which control their members and require conformity.

The No true Scotsman fallacy is a weak argument, in my opinion.