How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[Ponder This]

OK. God is the judge. But being good is not enough. One has to accept that there is only one God and that Moses/Jesus/Mohammad and the other riff-raff (depending upon the belief of the person) have to be acknowledged. Is that not unfair?

It may seem unfair if you believe that you are a better judge than God.

No soul has entered the promised land till now. All souls have to wait till the day of judgement, even Moses' soul (according to Christians and Muslims).
Is it the problem of an individuals ego or the whimsical ways of God, that he will deny rewards even to good people? This God needs to be changed.

The Promised Land is an actual physical geographical area (today roughly equated with the land of Israel). The story is that Moses died before the wandering Jews reached it.
There are various beliefs about Heaven. In any case, God judges what is good and what is not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It may seem unfair if you believe that you are a better judge than God.

That is quite the error. You are assuming that the Bible represents God's opinion. One way of refuting that are the bad morals of that version of God.

The Promised Land is an actual physical geographical area (today roughly equated with the land of Israel). The story is that Moses died before the wandering Jews reached it.
There are various beliefs about Heaven. In any case, God judges what is good and what is not.

And modern archaeologists have shown that there is no evidence for the Exodus when there should be endless evidence for it. In other words it does not appear to have happened. And your weak excuse is not good enough. If you want to claim that the Bible points towards God and that God is moral you need to justify both of those claims.

 

[stvdv]

For those of you who don't take the story of the Fall literally. Adam, Eve, Tree, Serpent, etc, how do you envision the Fall of Man happening? And if it didn't happen, what use is Jesus?

How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

A True Christian lives like Christ
Living in the present, not in the past
Eden story is way back in the past

 

[ppp]

Some Christians being upset that you don't believe in God is very different from hijacking an airplane and flying it into a building.

Or financially supporting legislation that imposes the death penalty for gay people.

How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

A True Christian lives like Christ
Living in the present, not in the past
Eden story is way back in the past

Piffle

 

[F1fan]

Yes, you may choose to lie about what you believe or choose to be honest about it.

I am deliberate to avoid lying to myself, which is why I use reasoning and follow facts. Note, I am not a theist since there is no factual basis for religious concepts. I avoid following social beliefs that aren't credible, and that includes religious concepts. You haven't argued for any reason how a person can use reason and come to a valid conclusion that religious concepts are true. So what motivates so many to adopt religious ideas that are not based in truth or fact?

And, yes, you can choose to trust a source of information or not.

Not if the source isn't valid or reputable, which is quite common these days. A critical thinker doesn't decide to not trust a source, a source is dismissed out of principle if it is not credible. Being able to understand what is reputable is what allows a person a huge advantage in reasoning and understanding truth. To trust a source means examining the source for its reliability and validity. There are many bogus sources out there that the foolish and guilible fall prey to, and they are dismissed by critical minds.

I don't see how your philosophical musings on mindless robots are relevant (let alone accurate). Perhaps that's a topic for another thread?

Ironic, perhaps that you don't see how adopting a religious dogma does not come from alaytical thought and careful consideration, but from social pressure and the need to conform and belong. these are subconscious so the self has little awareness they are believing in ideas that a rational thinker would not think true. Those who believe without self-awareness and analytical thought are much like robots who are programmed and operate from what they are told.

I think you may be confused. A Christian could very well believe that you are going to Hell because you reject God. Just because a Christian believes that you are going to Hell, doesn't mean that you have to believe it too.

You are missing the point, it isn't about agreement. It is Christians who assume hell is real. Hell isn't known to exist. It is just one of many concepts in Christianity and has no basis in reality. That a Christian might think hell is real, and that Christian dogma about hell is true, and believes that the dogma applies to others, illustrates the lack of humility such Christians have. It is not a matte of agreement, it is a matter of Christians not understanding that their beliefs are not fact, and that their judgments don't apply to free people who believe differently. This casual arrogance is a leftover from the time when Christian leaders ruled most of Europe, and held power over anyone within their grasp.

Some Christians being upset that you don't believe in God is very different from hijacking an airplane and flying it into a building.

Good for you for figuring this out. It wasn't my point. My point is that some religious people assume their dogma is true, and that it applies to others who don't agree with them. It is the arrogance of theists who believe their religious belief has authority over others that I am talking about.

Can you acknowledge that your religious ideas have no authority or significance to those who don't agree with you? Is it possible that you could be mistaken in what you believe?

 

[F1fan]

It may seem unfair if you believe that you are a better judge than God.

Wht God can you show exists that can compete with mere mortals? Mortals have a huge advantage of actually existing.

The Promised Land is an actual physical geographical area (today roughly equated with the land of Israel). The story is that Moses died before the wandering Jews reached it.

How do Christians fit in? Just an offshoot that stole some Jewish ideas and created something new, but still aren't the chosen people?

There are various beliefs about Heaven. In any case, God judges what is good and what is not.

Too bad heaven, hell and God aren't facts, eh?

 

[Aupmanyav]

It may seem unfair if you believe that you are a better judge than God.

The Promised Land is an actual physical geographical area (today roughly equated with the land of Israel). The story is that Moses died before the wandering Jews reached it. There are various beliefs about Heaven. In any case, God judges what is good and what is not.

There are thousands of Gods and Goddesses, not just one; and they have different responsibilities.
Land of Israel will not be able to accommodate billions of believers (past, present and future), and most of it is a desert, a very poor kind of heaven.
You need a whole world up in the sky, as in Hindu heaven.

 

[blü 2]

It may seem unfair if you believe that you are a better judge than God.

The alternative is to believe that (a) God exists as a real entity and (b) communicates [his] judgments clearly, coherently and completely and (c) will act in reality to enforce [his] judgments (since if [he] does not, the judgments are irrelevant).

But not even one of those is true.

And even if it were true, the individual would still have to take responsibility for his or her own moral decisions, and not just try to ape what he or she understood to be The Instructions, no? According to the bible, God ordains a whole lot of things I find morally repulsive in the extreme, like invasive war, massacre of surrendered populations, mass rape, human sacrifice, murderous religious discrimination, women as property, slavery as normal, and even the entrenched privileges of the priestly caste.

Nor have I ever understood what the crucifixion of Jesus accomplished that God couldn't have accomplished without bloodshed, just by one snap of those omnipotent fingers ─ why yet more gratuitous cruelty and bloodshed?

The Promised Land is an actual physical geographical area (today roughly equated with the land of Israel). The story is that Moses died before the wandering Jews reached it.

But as you know, there are major differences between the boundaries of contemporary Israel and the boundaries variously described in Numbers 34 (where particular subdivisions among the tribes are prescribed) and Deuteronomy 34.

And God had already promised much more than that in Genesis 15:18-21 ─

18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, 19 the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgash ites and the Jebusites."​

Odd to reflect that the land from the Nile to the Euphrates, with just the odd blip here and there, is Arab territory, no?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It may seem unfair if you believe that you are a better judge than God.

Every atheist - most being humanists - rejects what all of the religions claim are commandments from their gods just as every religion rejects the moral precepts of every other religion where they conflict. And yes, I believe that I am a better judge of good and right behavior than any of these gods - or more correctly, people speaking for gods we never see or hear from directly - including yours.

The divine command theory of morality, which state that whatever the deity say, does, or allows is moral by definition - is the most dangerous one possible. All one need do to make an adherent perform a heinous act or vote to enact harmful legislation is to convince them that their god approves.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. For good people to do evil things, it takes religion." - Nobelist Steven Weinberg

 

[Muffled]

How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

Did Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ever say that Eden story is to be believed literally, please?
If yes then kindly quote from him in this connection, please, right?
If not then one can be a true follower of him without believing in the story of Eden literally, please. Right?

Regards

I believe He tells me the truth about it.

 

[Muffled]

That's not the only way I'm wasting my time. Well, actually I'm more of a Jack Smith twitter watcher and Glenn Kirshner video watcher as far as Trump goes.

I believe Trump will be the next president no matter what his legal status because even though Democrats are stupid enough to vote for a senile old man, independents will not buy into it and they hold the balance in elections.

 

[Muffled]

In a war such as WWII, not everyone survives either.

If Jesus doesn't torch you up with his fiery sword, and the earthquake doesn't get you or the falling pieces of asteroid don't get you , then you will probably be burned up in the fire but of course Christians are not on earth when that happens.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe Trump will be the next president no matter what his legal status because even though Democrats are stupid enough to vote for a senile old man, independents will not buy into it and they hold the balance in elections.

Trump is close to the same age as Biden. I do not believe Biden will be the Democratic nominee in 2024.

Joe and his son carry too much corruption baggage like Trump.

 

[F1fan]

I believe He tells me the truth about it.

And given you are a fallen and fallible mortal, is it possible you could be mistaken?

To believe and not question your flaws is to assume yourself of having the knowledge of God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe He tells me the truth about it.

That does not change the argument. And you may have beliefs, but they do not appear to be valid ones. Believers far too often do not stop to test their beliefs. Others have similar beliefs about Allah or any other God that you care to mention.. So how would you properly test your beliefs?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Trump is close to the same age as Biden. I do not believe Biden will be the Democratic nominee in 2024.

Joe and his son carry too much corruption baggage like Trump.

I hope not. I do wish that the Democrats would try to find a better candidate. But if it came up to another Biden Trump contest my choice would be clear. At least if Biden won with his age there is a very good chance that we would have a President Harris.

 

[F1fan]

Trump is close to the same age as Biden.

Yeah, it's funny how Trump supporters ignore this little nugget of truth.

I do not believe Biden will be the Democratic nominee in 2024.

Why is that?

Joe and his son carry too much corruption baggage like Trump.

Like Trump? No one has baggage like the Trumps.

The only "baggage" against Joe is right wing disinformation. This "Comer fella" and Jordan are working (and being paid by taxpayers) to find dirt on Biden, and so far can't find anything against Joe, which is likely the reason they are referring to their targets as "the Biden family" to imply Joe is involved somehow. If these guys weren't frauds they would be looking at all recent influence peddling by relatives of presidents, and that would include Jared Kushner and his dubious dealings with the Saudis. When did Kushner have time to set up a 2 billion dollar deal if he was still working in the White House?

Do you think these guys won't switch their attention to some other democratic candidate? They are whipping Hunter Biden into a pulp to spread his blood over everyone else in the family. Joe isn't my first choice, and I think it is a mistake for him to run again, but he has done a good job so far and he has my support if he stays the course. The big question is what happens on the republican side. You want to talk about baggage?

 

[F1fan]

If Jesus doesn't torch you up with his fiery sword, and the earthquake doesn't get you or the falling pieces of asteroid don't get you , then you will probably be burned up in the fire but of course Christians are not on earth when that happens.

I guess that's because there is no such thing as a Christian. Or they are so delusional they have no idea what planet they are on. To @cOLTER this planet is called Urantia. Did you know that?

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe Trump will be the next president no matter what his legal status because even though Democrats are stupid enough to vote for a senile old man, independents will not buy into it and they hold the balance in elections.

Kind of off-topic, but nonetheless It is the fundamentalist Christians and extreme radical right that are devoted to Trump and worship at his temple of gold. That is an example of how fundamentalist Christians are out of touch with reality.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I hope not. I do wish that the Democrats would try to find a better candidate. But if it came up to another Biden Trump contest my choice would be clear. At least if Biden won with his age there is a very good chance that we would have a President Harris.

I wish the Democrats would choose a better candidate too, but if it comes down to President Biden and Donald Trump again, my choice is clear. I'll vote for Joe Biden again. I'm a former conservative Christian, and I consistently voted Republican for 24 years until the 2016 presidential election. I voted third party for the first time ever in that election, and I voted Democratic for the first time ever in the 2020 presidential election. I won't politically support the Republican Party with my votes or money again as long as Trump and his loyal cohorts are controlling it. I'll continue to politically support the Democrats.