How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

[Shad]

Social order and control.

 

[Prophet]

Your just feeding the 3 least educated people on this subject, who for some unknown reason refuse REAL education.

Legion is doing the same, through what I'd characterize as "higher" methods, but the results he gets with respect to imbeciles are identical to mine.

We need to put a sign up like the zoo, Don't feed the historical tro%$s.

To ignore is certainly a rational and humane approach to morons, but my cruel tendencies and complete confidence in my rational superiority tells me to give these intellectual midgets all the rope they need to hang themselves. They seldom disappoint.

 

[oldbadger]

The Resurrection argument is based on history...and nothing in history is certain.

Bunyip..........
Congrats...........
Right or wrong....... the above appears to side with your intended answer to:-How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

 

[oldbadger]

I don't know the exact figures but I think at least half (?) of all atheists acknowledge that Jesus existed.
Okay fine, but can they tell us why in their opinion he then went on to become the most famous person in the history of the world?

...... possibly existed.... ?
I think 'probably existed'.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Shuttlecraft: Until atheists can suggest a MOTIVE for anybody making Jesus up, they might as well be whistling Dixie

Social order and control.

Nope..

"Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you" (1 Peter 5:2-3)

 

[oldbadger]

Until atheists can suggest a MOTIVE for anybody making Jesus up, they might as well be whistling Dixie..

The most brilliant human manipulation, control, taxation and disciplining system ever conceived in the World, by Romans, for all folks....... even the gentiles! Wow! In built FEAR! Naughty on Earth?....... burn in hell forever..... :yes:

 

[oldbadger]

Social order and control.

......... and taxation, and manipulation, and ...... somebody very very clever figured all this out, hence folks like Saul ordered onto new policies.... ?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Until atheists can suggest a MOTIVE for anybody making Jesus up, they might as well be whistling Dixie..

Not an atheist.

But I think it probably grew out of a mystery cult similar to Orphism and then some more mundane group came around, took it literally and they were the ones who won out at the end of the day. I don't think that anyone consciously set out to make Jesus up. I think it was a process that happened over time. But I'm open to all theories.

 

[oldbadger]

Legion is doing the same, through what I'd characterize as "higher" methods, but the results he gets with respect to imbeciles are identical to mine.

To ignore is certainly a rational and humane approach to morons, but my cruel tendencies and complete confidence in my rational superiority tells me to give these intellectual midgets all the rope they need to hang themselves. They seldom disappoint.

An intellectual midget is all that would be needed to win a Yes-vote in a debate titled:-How certain are we that Jesus was historical?
:yes:

And outhouse was unable to provide a relevant sentence either way.

Easy..... easy..... it's so easy......

But it took brains to think it up and OP it. Bunyip wins this one.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Easily.

How do all the religions of the world exist, - and you think all their Gods false?

Yes, I think all their God's are false.

Your religion is just another in the list.

But when it comes to TRUE religion..there is only one religion, and one list.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

The most brilliant human manipulation, control, taxation and disciplining system ever conceived in the World, by Romans..

Nope..
If the Romans invented Christianity, why did they go around killing Christians?
And Rome was a violent military state, so why on earth would they invent Christianity which tells its soldiers "thou shalt not kill" ?

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..i don't think that anyone consciously set out to make jesus up. I think it was a process that happened over time...

Motive?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

motive?

If it wasn't consciously planned, then there was no motive to it, at least not until Christians gained control of the Roman Empire. When that happened, it was obviously about control and power.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

That's only one form of Christianity. There are many forms of it, including Gnostic and esoteric forms that do not require a flesh and blood historical Jesus or a literal savior motif. It's the same as with many forms of Paganism. A belief in the Heroes as literal historical people is not required for practice. It is the stories and the lessons they impart that are paramount. Jesus is simply the main hero of the Christian story, similar to Heracles. But it would cause mainstream Christianity to collapse, yes. That's terrifying to a huge amount of people for obvious reasons.

I don't get it. Either way you look at it, you have to believe that Jesus existed as a historical person for you to become a Christian.......there is no "I believe Jesus died for the sins of the world, but he never existed". What?

That's
I still don't see any evidence being offered for the existence of any of the main characters of the NT. Just a lot of silly excuses that fall flat. There were many secular historians active in that region during that period of time and they're quiet. There's no real excuse for that, if Jesus and his entourage did the things the NT says they did: Why Are The Ancient Historians Silent About Jesus?

Silly excuses falling flat? What???? You asked "If Jesus was so cool, how come no one wrote about him during his lifetime"....and I answered by saying, "BECAUSE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE GENERAL POPULATION COULD NOT READ OR WRITE".

If someone can't read or write, that seems to me to be a pretty good reason why they aren't writing anything. Just saying. And this isn't just some apologetic answer, this is based on knowledge of 1st century Palenstine.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

If it wasn't consciously planned, then there was no motive to it, at least not until Christians gained control of the Roman Empire. When that happened, it was obviously about control and power.

Well your beef is with Roman Catholicism, not with Jesus!
If the Inquisition were Christians, I'm Mary Poppins..

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't get it. Either way you look at it, you have to believe that Jesus existed as a historical person for you to become a Christian.......there is no "I believe Jesus died for the sins of the world, but he never existed". What?

I said that's just one version of Christianity. There are many others: Esoteric Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Silly excuses falling flat? What???? You asked "If Jesus was so cool, how come no one wrote about him during his lifetime"....and I answered by saying, "BECAUSE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE GENERAL POPULATION COULD NOT READ OR WRITE".

If someone can't read or write, that seems to me to be a pretty good reason why they aren't writing anything. Just saying. And this isn't just some apologetic answer, this is based on knowledge of 1st century Palenstine.

And I told you that there were many educated people chronicling the history of that area during that time and none of them had anything to say about the events told in the New Testament. That's a big problem for your claims.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well your beef is with Roman Catholicism, not with Jesus!
If the Inquisition were Christians, I'm Mary Poppins..

No true Scotsman fallacy. My "beef" is not with any denomination in particular.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..there were many educated people chronicling the history of that area during that time and none of them had anything to say about the events told in the New Testament..

Think POLITICS mate..
When Christianity began snowballing in popularity after Jesus's execution, the snooty priests and the posturing Romans said -
"Oops better not let on it was us who killed him, quick shred all the documents implicating us or we'll have a Jesusgate scandal on our hands!
Let's airbrush him out of history and start hassling christians, and people will quickly forget all about him"..

Nevertheless 27 books did slip through the net and get published as the New Testament, plus other books that never made it into the NT such as the gospels of Mary, Thomas and Judas..

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Think POLITICS mate..
When Christianity began snowballing in popularity after Jesus's execution, the snooty priests and the posturing Romans said -
"Oops better not let on it was us who killed him, quick shred all the documents implicating us or we'll have a Jesusgate scandal on our hands. Let's airbrush him out of history and start hassling christians, and people will soon quickly forget about him"..

Nevertheless 27 books did slip through the net and get published as the New Testament, plus other books that never made it into the NT such as the gospels of Mary, Thomas and Judas..

Except that that never happened and it was actually Christians who destroyed books, committed forgery, made revisions, persecuted and suppressed.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..it was actually Christians who destroyed books, committed forgery, made revisions, persecuted and suppressed.

You're a FUNNY GUY..