You're a FUNNY GUY..
I'm not being funny. This is a very serious and tragic topic. Your woeful ignorance of history is not my problem.
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How certain are we that Jesus was historical?
- Thread starter Bunyip
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I'm not being funny. This is a very serious and tragic topic. Your woeful ignorance of history is not my problem.
Shad
Veteran Member
Nope..
"Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you" (1 Peter 5:2-3)
Considering the Bible claims to be changing the social order my point 1 is validated by the text itself. Since Jesus is the son of God this grants authority which grants control, point 2 validated. Since Jesus is no longer present control passes to those that spread the Gospels. The first authorities were the disciples and later religious hierarchies. They look over the flock but also are the sole source of the message the flock believes in and accepts. These become religious institution which are hierarchies of religious authority. They dictate what the message means, which verses are authentic or not and they spread whatever message they decide upon.
5:2-3 sounds like something a used car salesman would say. Trust me this car is perfect after all my motto is never to scam a customer. You can trust me see! Now buy this car and accept my claims.
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Shad
Veteran Member
Plenty of people figured this out. Consider how many religions there are and how many used religious authority to dictate marriage, banking, social class, politics, etc, to the masses and nation. Its not unique it just the masses have no caught on for centuries and probably never will. The next person to come along selling a lemon just needs to be convincing and people will buy into the product.
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Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
Christians don't do "serious" mate because they know our human lives are just a tiny speed bump in eternity..
"For we look at things unseen rather than the seen,for the seen are temporary,but the unseen are eternal" (2 Cor 4:18)
Their strength and confidence shows in their eyes..
"My Christian faith has been such a backbone through so many difficult times. For me Christianity is about being strengthened"- Bear Grylls
"God makes His reality so obvious to us in His creation and in the little mini-miracles that happen everyday"- Becky St. James
"To look out at this kind of creation out here and not believe in God is to me impossible, it just strengthens my faith"- John Glenn
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
Firstly, Jesus wants MATES, he don't want to control nobody..
"You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends"- (John 15:15)
Secondly, I don't know any true Christian who wants to control anybody, although there have always been plenty around, but they can't get under the radar-
Jesus said:-"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)
However there are wimps who LIKE to be dominated and controlled and let "the church" do their thinking for them, more fool them for not heeding Jesus-
"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)
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Shad
Veteran Member
I see plenty of Christians controlling other Christians. Kings, Queens, Emperors, Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, etc. Did you skip your history classes to often?
The whimps are those Christians which are not one of the above. After all you need religious authorities to tell you what verses mean, which books are canon, etc. You require authority of religious institutions to validate the text which itself grants these people the authority to valid the text. Self-authenticating authority is the bases of all religion as none one outside the religion grants this authority to the level in which religious views are accepted as reality. Circular reasoniong is circular...
The whimps are those Christians which are not one of the above. After all you need religious authorities to tell you what verses mean, which books are canon, etc. You require authority of religious institutions to validate the text which itself grants these people the authority to valid the text. Self-authenticating authority is the bases of all religion as none one outside the religion grants this authority to the level in which religious views are accepted as reality. Circular reasoniong is circular...
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Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
Assuming that Christian means a follower of the prophet Jesus Christ, any cursory reading of Jesus' teachings can reveal this.
Call_of_the_Wild
Well-Known Member
I guess it is true, there isnt a belief so ridiculous that at least one person wont believe it.
If there were educated people chronicling the history of that area and they wrote about Jesus, why should anyone believe you or others would take it as authentic instead of doing the same thing you do for anything else...like accusing the account(s) of being interpolated by deceitful Christians and drawing up this big Christian conspiracy?
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Amazing, you can actually type that with a straight face.
You see anyone denying the existance of Caesar? Or Ptolemy?
That's rich, coming from you. You're the last person to be judging people's belief systems. :biglaugh:
If there were historical evidence that is contemporary from eyewitnesses or others close to the scene and its authenticity can be relied on, I would have no problem accepting it. Nothing of the sort has been presented.
Call_of_the_Wild
Well-Known Member
I've also never seen anyone praying to Ceasar or celebrating Ptolemy's birthday.
Call_of_the_Wild
Well-Known Member
My belief has actual history behind it...but its not as if history means anything around here, apparently..
Paul was an eyewitness to the testimony of the original disiples, plus he offers his own testimony...oh, but I forgot, that isnt good enough, right? Those goal posts sure are moving mighty fast...
No, it doesn't. At the very least, that claim has yet to be proven.
The stories of the Old Testament have been pretty much shown to be mythological. There was no Adam and Eve, global Flood, Noah, Abraham, enslavement of Jews in Egypt, Exodus from Egypt, Moses, Solomon, Job, etc. It's known that much of the OT is rewritten Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian and Levantine mythology. I'm simply holding up the New Testament to the same scrutiny. The same goes for any other religious claims when they claim historicity for their mythology.
I'm not moving any goalposts. It's just that Paul has no historical grounding, either.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Not that it matters but Caesar was worshipped as a god and I've been to a Ptolemy's b-day party, but that's with a much smarter crowd than I normally run with.
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outhouse
Atheistically
First five books.
The others have quite a bit of valuable history, but I know what you mean.
The ignorance and intellectual sloppiness of the above is really remarkable.
Don't you have anything better to do with your time than troll? Either present an argument, or go away. No one's interested in reading your one-liners.
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