How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

[outhouse]

reinforced by a woefully inadequate capacity to show that you are able to interpret what either of us are saying:


.

And it gets worse then that. He/she keeps changing his/her conclusions all over the board.

To the point its almost POE it so ridiculous.

First mark, was the author of mark, and an eyewitness to everything, to now bun bun makes sense


One is on ignore, the second it on his way.

 

[steeltoes]

If everyone here wants to debate the topic of "Bunyip" then I suggest they start a new thread to debate that topic.

Bunyip appears to be a stumbling block for those on this thread that are certain that the NT story about a mythical Son of God is really about a real and truly historical figure.

 

[outhouse]

Bunyip appears to be a stumbling block.

:biglaugh:


Muddling through the mire is not a stumbling block.

His lack of credible methodology has been exposed to many times to count.


You cannot build a case against a HJ only appealing to ignorance :slap:

 

[Sapiens]

You cannot build a case against a HJ only appealing to ignorance :slap:

... and you can't make a case for HJ without special dispensation from the normal rules and appealing to ignorance. Sounds like an ugly deal all the way round.

 

[outhouse]

... and you can't make a case for HJ without special dispensation from the normal rules and appealing to ignorance. Sounds like an ugly deal all the way round.

This is an example of appealing to ignorance.

Had you actually known ANYTHING about scholarships from this time period, you would understand there is factually no special pleading.


The same methods are applied to all from this period and before. Without the context of social and cultural anthropology you are blind here.


If you would like some sources and credible links I can provide them. Then at least you could argue something relevant in context.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... and you can't make a case for HJ without special dispensation from the normal rules and appealing to ignorance.

Don't be silly. Of course you can.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

"Any number of reasons" is too vague mate, so if you care to narrow it down a bit we can look at your conspiracy-theories one by one..

Conspiracy theory? I don't recall bringing up anything. Just skepticism that Christianity recounts things in a purely factional manner rather than embellishments. If it makes you feel any better I don't believe any other religious claims of history either.

However you still cannot shift the burden of proof onto me to make a case the claim was wrong if the claim itself hasn't met a burden of proof.

 

[steeltoes]

Originally Posted by Sapiens
... and you can't make a case for HJ without special dispensation from the normal rules and appealing to ignorance.

Don't be silly. Of course you can.

It's just a matter of belief, God's only begotten Son really and truly o' walked the earth.

Christian scholars believe and so should you.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..you still cannot shift the burden of proof onto me to make a case the claim was wrong if the claim itself hasn't met a burden of proof.

You've been firing off so many consp-theories that i've lost track of what your original claim was mate. Like I said, present your claims one at a time and I'll be happy to blow them out of the water one at a time..

 

[Sapiens]

It's just a matter of belief, God's only begotten Son really and truly o' walked the earth.

Christian scholars believe and so should you.

Why should I believe anything so patently silly?

 

[oldbadger]

Wrong. ..................

No..... Correct!

How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

........ is a simple question. If you can't give a simple answer then you're not that bright.
But you did......... You answered that we can't be certain ........ it's ok now. You got it out of your system. You gotta be big enough to know when to agree with an adversary.

........ you see, all your posts' academic preening and posturing means as little to me as their apparent reliance on passed relatives for recognition. If you can't win with a sentence or two of good debate then it's all waffle to me. Oh....I only read the one word.

I perceive this...... you can't debate. :no:

 

[oldbadger]

If everyone here wants to debate the topic of "Bunyip" then I suggest they start a new thread to debate that topic.

They won't debate the question.
My perception has always been that Christians have faith and belief. I don't know of a Creed that proclaims certitude, but you would be the right person to sort me on that. And yet the atheists hold steadfastly to their 'Nay, Nay, Nay' whilst the Christians scream back 'Yeah, Yeah!'.

..... and not much gets offered in appropriate debate.

 

[oldbadger]

Debating anything HJ at this site is useless.

...... then don't.
...... Your posts don't offer knowledge, only insults.

 

[Sapiens]

... That Jesus' historicity isn't proven is no more meaningful than that the moon landing wasn't proven.

That's crap. I've seen the films, I've touched the artifacts, I've met the people who did it. I have numerous primary, documented sources. When it comes to HJ ... what we''ve got is more evidence for HJ than against it. But then you can never prove that something did not happen, only that it did, so that's to be expected. What I see is a bunch of religionists defending the rice bowl that's feed them at the pubic trough for a couple of millennia. No HJ, no Zombie J, no Zombie J, no rice bowl ... times up ... check please!

 

[oldbadger]

First mark, was the author of mark, and an eyewitness to everything, to now bun bun makes sense

I have never completely discarded Mark the youth, receiving Cephas's notes.
And it still leaves me needing to admit that we cannot be certain about HJ, only possible-> plausible->Probable.

But your shuffling magic-for-meal itinerant, shuffling to Jerusalem with his 3-4 hangers on, making a fuss and getting executed, being watched by 400,000 on that hillside (Jerusalem was empty :biglaugh and chucked in a pit for the dogs .....which founded a religion out into the Diaspora by those folks, because a convict got executed (which one?) ...... a position that you are glued to incorrigibly .......... is a bit of a joke.

So..... ignore me. I will lose nothing, and gain much.

 

[Bunyip]

Legion

The difference is that Bunyip and you seem to think that the fact that we can't prove something here is somehow special. It's UNIVERSAL, even outside the humanities.

Nonsense Legion. You are pretending that no article of human knowledge is more established than your pathetic case for the historicity of Jesus. We went to the moon Legion - that can be proven, we have moon rocks and you can find with a laser a physical artifact left there by humans. Not all knowledge is abduction (guesswork), just because the historicity of Jesus is.

 

[Bunyip]

Legion

So espionage is Bunyip's "field of knowledge" thanks to one asserted major in "politics". Bunyip majored in history, but also in ancient history, and his field is history despite no indication that "field" means anything more than lying about undergraduate accomplishment. His "field of knowledge" isn't just an undergrad major; it's an alleged double major in history and politics that somehow also makes Bunyip's "field of knowledge" the field "espionage" and some bunk about "counter-terrorism" that Bunyip is utterly incapable of relating to the first century CE.

You accuse me of elitism because I spent the time and energy to learn about this topic while you simply haven't but nonetheless accuse my studies with some claim to elitist membership. You can't even accurately relate what was said on this forum. Here at least you've read something relevant. When it comes to this topic, you can't even demonstrate thrat

You repeat these asinine, infantile and painfully dishonest ad homs because you know you lost Legion. You are telling these little lies here because you screwed up. Attacking me personally over and over like this is a demonstration of your failure. It is a rather magnificent display of intellectual and moral bankruptcy on your part. If you could debate at all you would never need such tactics.

Unlike you however I am not all mouth and no balls. I will happily provide you with a few of my essays and research projects in any of the fields that you are dishonesty insulting my knowledger over. History and Politics is a degree course, I specialised in the history of warfare and espionage. Security, Terrorism and Counter Terrorism is also a degree course, I specialised in fundamentalist and extremist violence in history and in the modern world. Legion all you seem able to do is lie, mock, insult and posture.

I have never at any point relied upon my own authority, and yet over and over again you post insulting lies and attacks upon me personally - think harder Legion, every such post from you is a declaration of your own shameless ineptitude .

__________________

 

[Bunyip]

Legion

How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

The answer is that we are not certain - right?

And before you run that nonsense objection about how nothing is certain, here are a few examples of things that we are are certain about and have proven:

Earth gravity is 9.8 meters per second squared. Man went to the moon and left a mirror there that you can detect with a laser. The speed of light in vacuum is 186,000 miles per second.

 

[oldbadger]

QUOTE=Bunyip;3955040........

How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

The answer is that we are not certain - right?

This has been a good exercise.
There was always going to be screaming, ranting, insulting. But it was necessary because some clowns simply need to be forced to write an agreement to something...... anything!..... before we can move forward to tougher issues.

The diversions, distractions, personal attacks were pre-collapse gyrations..... Honestly, if you had OP'd 'Is most printer paper white?' I can think of at least one member who would have writ pages of diverting analogies... and one who would scream that the consensus of news-printers everywhere considered you to be an ignorant charlatan without any education!

Sometime..... when you feel ready for it, (have a rest first ) we should try a thread 'Is it plausible that there was an HJ?'. That would really be something.....

 

[Bunyip]

This has been a good exercise.
There was always going to be screaming, ranting, insulting. But it was necessary because some clowns simply need to be forced to write an agreement to something...... anything!..... before we can move forward to tougher issues.

The diversions, distractions, personal attacks were pre-collapse gyrations..... Honestly, if you had OP'd 'Is most printer paper white?' I can think of at least one member who would have writ pages of diverting analogies... and one who would scream that the consensus of news-printers everywhere considered you to be an ignorant charlatan without any education!

Sometime..... when you feel ready for it, (have a rest first ) we should try a thread 'Is it plausible that there was an HJ?'. That would really be something.....

We would both agree on plausibility.