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How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

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LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Antiquities 20.9.1. "And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus,...

Again, I ask for some analysis of the underlying Greek (I am not even asking for any reference to or dependence upon manuscripts) that demonstrate your interpretation. As I cited Greek which did not mention any "Damneus", you haven't addressed the issue. Can you?
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Antiquities 20.9.1. "And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest."


Note that in this "story," This Jesus does not die - he (the son of Damneus) is made High Priest.


Wrong time frame as well. King Agrippa reigned from 41 AD to 44 AD.




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Do these words of the Gospel
Or of the novels
With respect
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
The short paragraph in Josephus' work is considered an inserted fake by most Scholars.


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I'm cool with that.
It's the position of the long passage that holds my interest.
Is it correct that this is positioned amongst the reports of insurrectionists, revolutionaries, brigands etc?

If so, it was never put there by evangelical momentum.... ?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Again, I ask for some analysis of the underlying Greek (I am not even asking for any reference to or dependence upon manuscripts) that demonstrate your interpretation. As I cited Greek which did not mention any "Damneus", you haven't addressed the issue. Can you?


LOL! I mentioned "Jesus, Son of Damneus" as the second text you were referring to remember, and that is what it says.

Note that in this "story" James the brother of Jesus Christ, gets stoned along with some fellows, while this Jesus lives and becomes High Priest


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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
And you have done nothing but to indicate my views on your ignorance are anything but correct (unless, of course, I overestimate the extent to which you do not know of what you speak).

I quoted the relevant Greek in Josephus. Can you analyze it (or any Greek in Josephus)? Can you indicate the faintest degree of familiarity with textual criticism? Can you name the extant Josephus manuscripts? Can you present any argument that isn't based upon
1) ignorance of Josephus' language
2) ignorance of Josephan manuscripts
3) ignorance of the Greek language
4) inability to either recognize or apply basic logic?

No.

You've got this wrong.
Presenting entires from Josephus in Greek rather than in our common language ..... thus:- the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ , called Jacob (James) makes debating more simple and clear.

I rather believe that you debate the perfection of your posts, rather than the proposal.

Those that know better than me have suggested that the Position of Josephus's longer passage does help to support the historicity of Jesus, but as the OP proposes, this still leaves the 'certainty' of an HJ in suspense.

I am content with the plausibility of HJ........ even to probability..... but certainty? :shrug:
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
LOL! I mentioned "Jesus, Son of Damneus" as the second text you were referring to remember, and that is what it says.

Note that in this "story" James the brother of Jesus Christ, gets stoned along with some fellows, while this Jesus lives and becomes High Priest


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Well I never...... this is the first time that I have read about this.
I suppose 'Jesus' was a very common name.
Question: Do you know if the name 'Yeshua' or 'Yehoshua' was particularly favoured amongst Galilean parents, or more generally amongst all Jewish parents?
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to --Ingledsva you wrote thisname
whose name was James
Are name James written in manuscript
James is not Jewish names
The European names
A translation of the name John
Does the name on the manuscript is James or John
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
to --Ingledsva you wrote thisname
whose name was James
Are name James written in manuscript
James is not Jewish names
The European names
A translation of the name John
Does the name on the manuscript is James or John

Hello.... :)

James is a derivative of Jacob.
I don't think that Jesus is a Jewish name, possibly more Greek? Folks here can tell you for sure. Jesus's name was probably 'Yeshua' or 'Yehoshua'.
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Does the name on the manuscript is Jacob or James
If James
I think the manuscript here is wrong
The name James Uribe
The name is not common in that era
I invite you to review this book accurately
And the word brothers
Is the Gospel
Without love, no spin and give you a place where the floor but came in other words
I wish I could look good
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Only you are completely wrong. If you think you are not, by all means point out the Greek for "Damneus" in what I quoted,

Why would I do that when it is discussing, The brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, ...


That is one line from a text about Jesus the Son of Damneus.


The Jesus in this story does not die - he becomes High Priest.


You are being disingenuous, trying to hinge this on one sentence, when you know the text ends with "Jesus the Son Of Damneus" being made High Priest, and it being in the wrong time frame.

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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Does the name on the manuscript is Jacob or James
If James
I think the manuscript here is wrong
The name James Uribe
The name is not common in that era
I invite you to review this book accurately
And the word brothers
Is the Gospel
Without love, no spin and give you a place where the floor but came in other words
I wish I could look good

The manuscript says Jacob..... :)
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Does the name on the manuscript is Jacob or James
If James
I think the manuscript here is wrong
The name James Uribe
The name is not common in that era
I invite you to review this book accurately
And the word brothers
Is the Gospel
Without love, no spin and give you a place where the floor but came in other words
I wish I could look good


These are translations. There was no "J."


Jesus is Iesous.



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