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How could Adam know?

djewleu

Member
Jehovah told him “in the day” you eat the forbidden fruit you shall surely die.
He died 930 years later.
How do you think Adam could have known the difference between eternal living and dying?
Jehovah never told him [in the epic] he would live forever!
Surely, he would die one day, like all other species around him in the garden.
The epic smells a rat, don't you think?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Except that, before eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he and Havva (Eve) were eating from the tree of life, which was not forbidden to them.
 

djewleu

Member
Except that, before eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he and Havva (Eve) were eating from the tree of life, which was not forbidden to them.
And...?
Jehovah did not threaten Eve.
Was she not of a rank high enough?
I wonder if the couple did not pass the test ONCE, by walking around the tree and leave it untouched?
Which would condemn Jehovah for not removing it from the middle of the Garden, that is.
It looks very much like a conspiracy from Jehovah and the Serpent, to induce the INNOCENT couple to eventually go and try the "Apple".
 
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Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
And...?
Jehovah did not threaten Eve.
Was she not of a rank high enough?
I wonder if the couple did not pass the test ONCE, by walking around the tree and leave it untouched?
Which would condemn Jehovah for not removing it from the middle of the Garden, that is.
It looks very much like a conspiracy from Jehovah and the Serpent, to induce the INNOCENT couple to eventually go and try the "Apple".


Why would "God", the all-powerful, even need to conspire, with the devil, against Adam and Eve?

If "God" want them to eat from the tree then that is what was going to happen. Likewise if "God" did not want them to eat from the tree then they would have never ate from it. But "God", the all-powerful, would never need to conspire against humans.
 
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Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
I think the moral of the story is: As long as you obey "God" without question then you'll live in blissful ignorance.

I mean "God" forbids them from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It a divorce from understanding; it's like saying as long as you are stupid, obedient, and don't know the difference between right and wrong then you can live in paradise. But as soon as you eat from the tree and gain the knowledge of good and evil you suddenly know too much to live in paradise and you out of the garden.
 
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djewleu

Member
I think the moral of the story is: As long as you obey "God" without question then you'll live in blissful ignorance.

I mean "God" forbids them from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It a divorce from understanding; it's like saying as long as you are stupid, obedient, and don't know the difference between right and wrong then you can live in paradise. But as soon as you eat from the tree and gain the knowledge of good and evil you suddenly know too much to live in paradise and you out of the garden.

Yes; very well put.
Adam had understood that he needed a little more knowledge of what he thought would be good to help him invent some gardening tools, to look after the Garden, instead of having to use his poor nails all day long!...
His partner suggested the forbidden fruit, that, maybe, would give his brain a nice boost to discover other means to dig the ground, she wondered...!
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Except that, before eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he and Havva (Eve) were eating from the tree of life, which was not forbidden to them.
So you have assumed, or perhaps you belong to some kind of tradition that tells you this. But there is not one word in the text itself that indicates that they ever ate of the tree of life.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
And...?
Jehovah did not threaten Eve.
Was she not of a rank high enough?
I wonder if the couple did not pass the test ONCE, by walking around the tree and leave it untouched?
Which would condemn Jehovah for not removing it from the middle of the Garden, that is.
It looks very much like a conspiracy from Jehovah and the Serpent, to induce the INNOCENT couple to eventually go and try the "Apple".

Um... what?

Threaten? Nobody threatened anyone.

And it wasn't an apple; apples don't grow in that area. Most believe it was some sort of fig, since they sowed fig leaves over their genitals.

I think you're reading a bit too deeply in the words themselves, rather than the overall story. We know that at the center of the garden was the tree of life, which was not forbidden, and nearby was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which was. This may be an indication that, in order to have eternal life, you must sacrifice knowledge of good and evil and be innocent like a child, but once you know of good and evil, you can no longer have eternal life.

Why? I don't know; I haven't figured that one out yet.

The entire story may have simply been a statement of what they believed, using already familiar Mesopotamian motifs, and not meant in any way to be taken as literal history.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
fantôme profane;1823372 said:
So you have assumed, or perhaps you belong to some kind of tradition that tells you this. But there is not one word in the text itself that indicates that they ever ate of the tree of life.

"YHWH, God, commanded concerning the human, saying: From every (other) tree of the garden you may eat, yes eat, but from the Tree of the Knowing of Good and Evil - you are not to eat from it, for on the day that you eat from it, you must die, yes, die." (Gen 2:16-17 Everett Fox translation) This is an indication that ALL the rest of the fruits, which doesn't explicitly exclude the fruit of the tree of life and therefore including said fruit, may be eaten.

Of course there's nothing to indicate whether or not they actually ate from the fruit; we're not given any sort of time transition between the creation and the fall. Could have been several centuries, may have been a few minutes; we don't know, and it doesn't matter to the story.

And, by the way, no I didn't grow up in a tradition that says so; I grew up in a household that didn't talk AT ALL about the Bible or religion, save for what Christmas was all about, since we celebrated it, and even then I didn't know exactly who Jesus was until I was a teenager.

Here's where I got it from:

2:17. in the day you eat from it: you'll die! On first reading, most readers take this to mean that one's death will occur in the very day that one eats from the tree. In the absence of punctuation in the Hebrew text, however, one cannot be certain. Before eating from the tree of knowledge, humans have access to the tree of life and therefore can live forever. This verse may mean that in the day that humans eat from the tree of knowledge they become mortal, in the sense of: "If you stay away from it, you'll life; in the day you eat from it, you'll die." This general meaning of the expression "in the day you do you'll die" occurs elsewhere (1 Kings 2:37, 42); and this is what in fact occurs in the story here.

Alternatively, if it does in fact mean that their death will occur in the very day that they eat from the tree, then we must understand what subsequently occurs to be a divine act of mercy or relenting: they do not die immediately but are rendered mortal.

-Richard Elliot Friedman Commentary on the Torah

In these ancient myths, you must MUST look beyond the words in order to figure out what's going on.
 

slave2six

Substitious
Except that, before eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he and Havva (Eve) were eating from the tree of life, which was not forbidden to them.
If I recall correctly, they angel with the flaming sword was placed as a security guard so that they wouldn't eat from the tree of life.
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Right! Certainly he can't go about blaming humans for being sinful if he's the one who made them so.

Also, it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam couldn't really be faulted for eating from the tree, because prior to he didn't know the difference between right and wrong. I mean, how could have Adam known that disobeying "God" was wrong until after he ate the fruit?
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
fantôme profane;1823372 said:
So you have assumed, or perhaps you belong to some kind of tradition that tells you this. But there is not one word in the text itself that indicates that they ever ate of the tree of life.

I was wondering about that, as it seemed to me that "God" wanted to kick them out before they got to the tree of life. He said that if they ate from the tree they would live forever.

Although, "God" only forbid them to eat from one tree. He actually says its OK to eat from any tree but the tree of knowledge. So it really, seems like He changes His mind about the tree of life after they ate from the tree knowledge.
 
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