How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[outhouse]

In Caanan, there were a number of snake cults, as well as a reverence for snakes in Mesopotamia as well. Both suggest they weren't despised. There were seen as entities of strength and renewal.

Also, since God created the serpent, it is implied that the serpent is good. Since God is attributed as saying his creations are good.

LOL what a poor interpretation

the serpent is good LOL :biglaugh: it is never implied that in any way shape or form

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(Bible)

. According to the Rabbinical tradition, the serpent represents sexual desire




ya we all know how god punishes the good one's


The Snake is punished for its role in their fall by being made to crawl on its belly in the dust, from where it continues to bite the heel of man.

 

[outhouse]

Thief

this sentance is for you

from where it continues to bite the heel of man.

they wrote the snake in as to still being punished forever as to be a snake, not a satan like figure. Just a simple snake.

 

[fallingblood]

LOL what a poor interpretation

the serpent is good LOL :biglaugh: it is never implied that in any way shape or form

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(Bible)

. According to the Rabbinical tradition, the serpent represents sexual desire




ya we all know how god punishes the good one's


The Snake is punished for its role in their fall by being made to crawl on its belly in the dust, from where it continues to bite the heel of man.

It's okay that you haven't read the Bible. But yes, in Genesis, we see it being said that all that God created was good.

More so, you ignored the fact that cultures around that area saw snakes in positive lights (or at least portions of them did, and in fact set up snake cults) and thus were not seen as despised animals.

 

[waitasec]

This ain't no private discussion.
You ok?

i'm fine...
i'm just curious why you were responding as if you were muhammad_isa
that's all.. :slap:

 

[waitasec]

Why does it have to be either or? You're approaching it from a view that God is already immoral, and thus, your interpretation is going to be just that.

The first interpretation isn't very accurate. It assumes God is all knowing, when that isn't a must, and up to this point, we aren't told that. More so, the story suggests the opposite. God has to ask way too many questions, he doesn't seem to know exactly what happened, and he doesn't even seem to know where Adam and Eve are at first. It also ignores the idea of free will, that people have choices, and have the ability to make their own choices.

right...
the idea of a god who isn't all knowing seems like a pretty lame and impotent god to me...very man like, don't you think?

The second interpretation assumes that people didn't have an idea of consequences, when the story itself suggests the opposite. Why would God tell Adam that there would be a consequence if he ate from the tree, if he wanted humans to remain unaware of such? It really doesn't follow.

understanding the consequences is contingent on knowing the difference between right from wrong...
it doesn't make sense why god would do that...unless you consider the 1st interpretation...

 

[muhammad_isa]

..understanding the consequences is contingent on knowing the difference between right from wrong...
it doesn't make sense why god would do that..

It seems to me, that you are implying that God is "not being fair" unless He reveals all that He knows..
Typical disbeliever! They feel that they have the ability to fully understand everything that there is to understand
..yet these same people are the ones that understand the least .. they blind themselves with denial of something/someone who has knowledge beyond their capacity

 

[waitasec]

It seems to me, that you are implying that God is "not being fair" unless He reveals all that He knows..
Typical disbeliever! They feel that they have the ability to fully understand everything that there is to understand
..yet these same people are the ones that understand the least .. they blind themselves with denial of something/someone who has knowledge beyond their capacity

this god is man made after all

 

[muhammad_isa]

116 And when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, they fell prostrate (all) save Iblis;
he refused.

117 Therefor we said: O Adam! This is an enemy unto thee and unto thy wife, so let him not drive you
both out of the Garden so that thou come to toil.

118 It is (vouchsafed) unto thee that thou hungerest not therein nor art naked,

119 And that thou thirstest not therein nor art exposed to the sun's heat.

120 But the devil whispered to him, saying: O Adam! Shall I show thee the tree of immortality and
power that wasteth not away ?

121 Then they twain ate thereof, so that their shame became apparent unto them, and they began to
hide by heaping on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And Adam disobeyed his Lord, so
went astray.

122 Then his Lord chose him, and relented toward him, and guided him.

123 He said: Go down hence, both of you, one of you a foe unto the other. But when there come unto
you from Me a guidance, then whoso followeth My guidance, he will not go astray nor come to grief.

124 But he who turneth away from remembrance of Me, his will be a narrow life, and I shall bring him
blind to the assembly on the Day of Resurrection.

125 He will say: My Lord! Wherefor hast Thou gathered me (hither) blind, when I was wont to see ?

126 He will say: So (it must be). Our revelations came unto thee but thou didst forget them. In like
manner thou art forgotten this Day.
Al Qur'an - Ta ha

Nay .. this is the truth from our Lord! satan is indeed a cunning enemy

 

[waitasec]

116 And when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, they fell prostrate (all) save Iblis;
he refused.

117 Therefor we said: O Adam! This is an enemy unto thee and unto thy wife, so let him not drive you
both out of the Garden so that thou come to toil.

118 It is (vouchsafed) unto thee that thou hungerest not therein nor art naked,

119 And that thou thirstest not therein nor art exposed to the sun's heat.

120 But the devil whispered to him, saying: O Adam! Shall I show thee the tree of immortality and
power that wasteth not away ?

121 Then they twain ate thereof, so that their shame became apparent unto them, and they began to
hide by heaping on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And Adam disobeyed his Lord, so
went astray.

122 Then his Lord chose him, and relented toward him, and guided him.

123 He said: Go down hence, both of you, one of you a foe unto the other. But when there come unto
you from Me a guidance, then whoso followeth My guidance, he will not go astray nor come to grief.

124 But he who turneth away from remembrance of Me, his will be a narrow life, and I shall bring him
blind to the assembly on the Day of Resurrection.

125 He will say: My Lord! Wherefor hast Thou gathered me (hither) blind, when I was wont to see ?

126 He will say: So (it must be). Our revelations came unto thee but thou didst forget them. In like
manner thou art forgotten this Day.
Al Qur'an - Ta ha

Nay .. this is the truth from our Lord! satan is indeed a cunning enemy

see this is just an edited version of the original story...
it could win an award for best adaptation though

 

[fallingblood]

right...
the idea of a god who isn't all knowing seems like a pretty lame and impotent god to me...very man like, don't you think?

Why does God have to be all knowing? To be all knowing means that people don't have free will, as God would already know what we are going to do and thus we could not deviate from what he knew.

I don't seem anything thing lame or impotent on having a god who isn't all knowing. It makes God more approachable, and it doesn't take away from the other God qualities.

understanding the consequences is contingent on knowing the difference between right from wrong...
it doesn't make sense why god would do that...unless you consider the 1st interpretation...

Not really. Adam obviously knew the consequence. He was given a choice, and decided to do wrong. Did God know he was going to do this? There is no such suggestion.

Really, both of your interpretations are very narrow, and not demanded. Both are actually suggested against.

this god is man made after all

You can't show that.

 

[waitasec]

Why does God have to be all knowing? To be all knowing means that people don't have free will, as God would already know what we are going to do and thus we could not deviate from what he knew.

did god know he was to sacrifice his son at this point?

I don't seem anything thing lame or impotent on having a god who isn't all knowing. It makes God more approachable, and it doesn't take away from the other God qualities.

the definition of god, for me is different than yours...
and i think it's different from most...but that isn't to say that your idea of god isn't better....

Not really. Adam obviously knew the consequence. He was given a choice, and decided to do wrong. Did God know he was going to do this? There is no such suggestion.

what do you mean not really?
did you know what no meant the 1st time your heard it?

Really, both of your interpretations are very narrow, and not demanded. Both are actually suggested against.

You can't show that.

if one considers why there was a tree of eternal life that was not forbidden
and then considers why god didn't already create man with knowledge to begin with, it makes perfect sense.

why did god create man unaware in the 1st place?

 

[Thief]

Thief

this sentance is for you
they wrote the snake in as to still being punished forever as to be a snake, not a satan like figure. Just a simple snake.

The serpent had dialog.

Not so simple.

 

[waitasec]

The serpent had dialog.

Not so simple.

for you perhaps...

however if one takes this entire story as folklore it's very very simple

 

[Thief]

for you perhaps...

however if one takes this entire story as folklore it's very very simple

Yeah right...nothing like simple minded rebuttals.

So, the event of God and Man meeting face to face can't happen?
if so.......

 

[waitasec]

Yeah right...nothing like simple minded rebuttals.

So, the event of God and Man meeting face to face can't happen?
if so.......

the entire story is simple minded...
is it not?

 

[Thief]

the entire story is simple minded...
is it not?

Apparently not.
See how long it's taken to get this far.

 

[outhouse]

The serpent had dialog.

Not so simple.

so does the talking donkey

the only other time a animal speaks

and he wasnt written in as satan either

 

[waitasec]

Apparently not.
See how long it's taken to get this far.

thats what happens when one tries to turn a simple truth into a complex one...

as i said...it's easy if one doesn't make it what it isn't...

 

[muhammad_isa]

see this is just an edited version of the original story...
it could win an award for best adaptation though

The Qur'an was not revealed in Hollywood !
It comes from what was a poor, underprivliged, uneducated, isolated desert..

Your claim that it's a 'copy' is just for your convenience .. or so you think .. eventually, it will be your downfall

 

[waitasec]

The Qur'an was not revealed in Hollywood !
It comes from what was a poor, underprivliged, uneducated, isolated desert..

who's tradition of raiding a neighboring camps was justified by being on gods side no less.

Your claim that it's a 'copy' is just for your convenience .. or so you think .. eventually, it will be your downfall

are you trying to scare me?
:spit:

a self defeating tactic