How did the Egyptians build the pyramids?

[cladking]

You are back at your unknown use of the word funicular, you deny it uses ramps, but are unwilling to define it in sufficient detail to analyze how it actually lifts things and where the energy Ep or Ek comes from. Just saying they used a funicular explains nothing. What is it and how did they build it?
How is it similar or different to this.

A linear funicular is a specific type of funicular that we don't use today. I already defined it as a funicular on both sides of the pyramid with the rope strung across the top. It went to and fro. One side went up one went down. The two harmonious goddesses, isis and nephthys, operated the two boats tied together.

The ferryman added water to the henu boat on the north side until it was heavier than the dndndr boat on the south side lifting stones 15 tons at a time.

One side of the funicular looked like the skull of a bull and the other side the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper. The bull lifted the stones by means of the arms of "tefnut" (downward). Osiris (the ballast) towed the earth by mean of balance.

 

[leroy]

A number od ancient cultures built immense monuments and structures as feats of engineering, Despite claims of mystic tofu, Gods and supernatural explanations the methods of engineering and construction is reasonably well known and explained by the engineering and technology at the time they were built.

How did the Egyptians build the pyramids? The following is the first simple reference with an explanation based on archeological evidence, More to follow.

We May Finally Know How the Pyramids Were Built

Scientists have discovered new evidence that may explain how these iconic structures were built.

www.discovery.com

History's Greatest Mystery​

The oldest of the most famous pyramids in the world is also the largest. At 481 feet (146.5 meters) tall, it's not called the Great Pyramid of Giza for nothing. It was constructed at the order of Pharoah Khufu sometime around 2560 B.C.E., although how it was actually constructed has been shrouded by history. Still, bit by bit, archaeologists have been able to explain various mechanisms behind the building's construction. The stones themselves were mined from a quarry just south of the pyramid, and researchers believe that their journey across the desert was made easier by wetting the sand first. But that only explains how the stones got from one location to another, not how they were then lifted high into the air and deposited in an enormous triangle.

Researchers believed that action would have involved a ramp of some sort, and that's a pretty fair guess. It's not as if they had a five-story crane. But as for the actual evidence of such a ramp? Researches were coming up empty-handed. It's a particular challenge because the ramp would have needed to be very steep — an incline of about 20 degrees or so — and that would have posed a significant challenge for a 2.5 ton stone. Now, a new discovery at a different quarry might shed light on how ancient people managed such a feat.

A Ramp Above​

At Hatnub, another rock quarry located in Egypt's eastern desert, an Anglo-French team found a very unusual ramp carved into the ground that hinted at some surprisingly advanced technological achievements. For one thing, it was pretty steep, but more significantly, it was flanked on both sides by staircases. These stairs were marked with recurring holes that could have contained wooden posts (which would have rotted away long ago). According to the mission's co-director Yannis Gourdon, "This kind of system has never been discovered anywhere else." What's more, it's dated to about 4,500 years ago, well before construction began on Khufu's big legacy.

Roland Enmarch, another scholar who participated in the expedition, noted that the patterns of the post holes in the stairs suggested a particular kind of rope-and-pulley system. Similar pulley systems are well-documented in Greek technology, but this discovery predates those devices by some 2,000 years. Since this specific ramp is cut into the rock itself, it wouldn't have been used to build the actual Great Pyramid. But it does suggest that the ancient Egyptians had a firm grasp on the kinds of simple machines that can be used to turn an impossible amount of hard work into just a whole lot of hard work.

More references to follow . . .

I am curious, why not simply assuming that they had wheels and/or strong donkey-like animals? Wouldn’t that be good enough to move all those heavy rocks?

 

[cladking]

The henu boat was made of short pieces of wood between ribbing on the outside of this boat;

The boat was tarred and there was an emergency valve in the bottom in case of mishaps. It was inspected every several lifts and repaired as necessary. It ran on the very smooth and lubricated side of the pyramid overseen by the sons of horus one of whom's names meant "he who smooths".

The dndndr boat was just a large sled designed to carry stones.

 

[cladking]

I am curious, why not simply assuming that they had wheels and/or strong donkey-like animals? Wouldn’t that be good enough to move all those heavy rocks?

No. Animals are significantly more powerful than humans and require just as much food and even more room than humans.

Ramps are impossible because there wouldn't be enough room to get enough men or animals on them. Animals would also panic if asked to walk on a narrow ramp with steep sides.

 

[Pogo]

There are a few theorists who propose this. The only real problem with it is that it would be impossible to construct wall to withstand the pressure above about 50' so sto0nes would have to go up in~50' increments. It's possible but I don't see the evidence to support it.

50', show us any evidence that the pyramid builders could create a hydraulic ram and a pump to operate it to any height and where is the hollow core left behind by using this method?

 

[cladking]

50', show us any evidence that the pyramid builders could create a hydraulic ram and a pump to operate it to any height and where is the hollow core left behind by using this method?

I meant a 50' column of water that could be used to float stones to the top.

 

[Pogo]

A linear funicular is a specific type of funicular that we don't use today. I already defined it as a funicular on both sides of the pyramid with the rope strung across the top. It went to and fro. One side went up one went down. The two harmonious goddesses, isis and nephthys, operated the two boats tied together.

The ferryman added water to the henu boat on the north side until it was heavier than the dndndr boat on the south side lifting stones 15 tons at a time.

One side of the funicular looked like the skull of a bull and the other side the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper. The bull lifted the stones by means of the arms of "tefnut" (downward). Osiris (the ballast) towed the earth by mean of balance.

How about a more universal example of the concept from physics that was understood by probably any ancient community that doesn't require any magic from gods.

Newton wrote it down as his third law, it is the operative law behind funiculars ancient and modern.

You are adding the magical requirement of a god to fill the bucket at the top.
As for the ferryman, this is a more commonly understood meaning.
Which one is more accurate?

 

[cladking]

You are adding the magical requirement of a god to fill the bucket at the top.

No!!!

There is no magic. What Egyptologists incorrectly translates as "god" means "force of nature".

It is Egyptology's error, not mine.

 

[cladking]

How about a more universal example of the concept from physics that was understood by probably any ancient community that doesn't require any magic from gods.

She appears to be in perfect ma'at (balance). This is exactly what the Ferryman's job was; to keep the Bull of Heaven in perfect balance.

(Maat, Ma’at, Maât; note that there are two vowel sounds in the name) The personification of the multivalent Egyptian concept of ma’et, that is, justice, truth and order, Ma’et is depicted as as a woman wearing a tall ostrich feather (or sometimes two) on her head, frequently with wings extending along her arms and usually carrying the ankh, sign of life.

 

[Pogo]

I am curious, why not simply assuming that they had wheels and/or strong donkey-like animals? Wouldn’t that be good enough to move all those heavy rocks?

One could assume this, but it would require evidence. Wheels were a relatively new invention and not yet capable of supporting multi ton loads. Non-human raft animals may have been used, but again lack of evidence and doesn't change any physics, only the number of pullers.

 

[Pogo]

The henu boat was made of short pieces of wood between ribbing on the outside of this boat;

View attachment 100268

The boat was tarred and there was an emergency valve in the bottom in case of mishaps. It was inspected every several lifts and repaired as necessary. It ran on the very smooth and lubricated side of the pyramid overseen by the sons of horus one of whom's names meant "he who smooths".

The dndndr boat was just a large sled designed to carry stones.

All of which is irrelevant to the actual physics. You say they used a "dndndr" to drag the stones from one level to another which means they dragged it up a ramp which is the device that allows a sled to gain elevation. The counterweight was a bucket which either requires a superstructure taller than the pyramid, or as you point out, it slides down " on the very smooth and lubricated side" just like on any other funicular though modern ones use wheels. In order for this to work you need to do work to move mass up to the top to then bring the next load up and that work is the same whatever the source of power. The mention of gods is irrelevant to the actual processes going on as has been demonstrated by all of the advancements in human knowledge since then.
That the historians of the day wrote popular literature to vaguely describe these things is just that, pop-sci stories for stinky footed bumpkins.
This has nothing to do with ancient language and knowledge it is just your alternate interpretations in support of your internal fantasy.

You knew more than your H.S. physics teachers too?

 

[Pogo]

No. Animals are significantly more powerful than humans and require just as much food and even more room than humans.

Ramps are impossible because there wouldn't be enough room to get enough men or animals on them. Animals would also panic if asked to walk on a narrow ramp with steep sides.

A small externally powered ramp to elevate and accelerate a load.

This one uses a bungee cord, but donkey's and rope will accomplish the same in moving the plane up the ramp and increasing it's velocity.
Scale as needed.

 

[Pogo]

I meant a 50' column of water that could be used to float stones to the top.

OK, you can float stones in water, but how much of what materials to you add to them to make the unit less dense than water and how do you take this "boat" and introduce it into the water column?

We can make submarines that sink and then float, but how do you get your submarine into the bottom of the water column?

 

[GoodAttention]

@GoodAttention @cladking @shunyadragon @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

short video showing ants making an ant hill

I want to know how similar is pyramids building same as ants building hill

Starting from the center and moving outwards makes the most sense.

We would then need to consider which parts of the pyramid would have required the most effort, and this would have been lifting the insanely massive granite blocks above the existing structure.

So, the queens chamber, which is the center, would have been completed first, likely on a 30 degree pyramid completed with a smooth enough surface to move the granite blocks. After this, the "fuller" structure would have been completed, mostly from casting blocks, and then perhaps "finished" on the outer with large limestone blocks.

The tura limestone would have likely been ground and cast also, since cutting them to size and moving them like a 3 dimensional jig-saw puzzle seems like grand idiocy.

 

[cladking]

...just like on any other funicular though modern ones use wheels.

Wheels are not very important on a 72 degree surface. Almost all the weight is on the ropes not the surface. Without all that weight there is very little friction, wear, or heat.

In order for this to work you need to do work to move mass up to the top to then bring the next load up and that work is the same whatever the source of power.

No. There was no muscle power except atum's to lift the water. The waters of nun, the waters of the abyss were carbonated and the water sprayed up as the result of a cascade reaction called a "CO2 geyser". It was the "inundation that tossed at the Mouth of Caves". All the people had to do was drill the well and channel the water as the gods did all the work. Of course what we call the laws of physics applied but they didn't believe in laws and had no word for "belief". Rather they used consciousness to recognize and name patterns they saw in nature. They named the animals and they named the gods whom were each created in the image of man and animals.

This has nothing to do with ancient language and knowledge it is just your alternate interpretations in support of your internal fantasy.

No. Every word they said and all the physical evidence says they mustta used linear funiculars. ALL of it. Better, is that my theoiry makes predictions but Egyptology has never made any prediction.

 

[cladking]

Wheels were a relatively new invention and not yet capable of supporting multi ton loads.

No. Wheels were 1000 years old when the great pyramids were built and if they had needed a wheel it could have been scaled up. No wheel was needed on a 72 degree slope.

 

[cladking]

OK, you can float stones in water, but how much of what materials to you add to them to make the unit less dense than water and how do you take this "boat" and introduce it into the water column?

We can make submarines that sink and then float, but how do you get your submarine into the bottom of the water column?

There are numerous ways to do this.

Bear in mind I don't believe this means was used.

 

[Pogo]

Starting from the center and moving outwards makes the most sense.

We would then need to consider which parts of the pyramid would have required the most effort, and this would have been lifting the insanely massive granite blocks above the existing structure.

So, the queens chamber, which is the center, would have been completed first, likely on a 30 degree pyramid completed with a smooth enough surface to move the granite blocks. After this, the "fuller" structure would have been completed, mostly from casting blocks, and then perhaps "finished" on the outer with large limestone blocks.

The tura limestone would have likely been ground and cast also, since cutting them to size and moving them like a 3 dimensional jig-saw puzzle seems like grand idiocy.

Generally when presenting a hypothesis it is usually followed by evidence that the hypothesis is in accordance with it. In this case what is this sub pyramid with 30 degree angles? If made of quarried blocks, how does it acheive a smooth surface when arranged in a pyramidal form?
Ground limestone is an interesting idea, but have you any evidence that we could confuse hamburger for steak? Any evidence that much or most of the Pyramids are hamburger?

 

[Pogo]

Wheels are not very important on a 72 degree surface. Almost all the weight is on the ropes not the surface. Without all that weight there is very little friction, wear, or heat.

It is not the angle but the difference in the sources of friction when using a wheel. At 72 degrees it would take a very large amout of static friction for a wheel to climb a ramp, trains that rely on this friction are limited to shallow slopes, on the other hand sliding friction due to the slope of the ramp would be as the cosine of no ramp.

No. There was no muscle power except atum's to lift the water. The waters of nun, the waters of the abyss were carbonated and the water sprayed up as the result of a cascade reaction called a "CO2 geyser". It was the "inundation that tossed at the Mouth of Caves". All the people had to do was drill the well and channel the water as the gods did all the work. Of course what we call the laws of physics applied but they didn't believe in laws and had no word for "belief". Rather they used consciousness to recognize and name patterns they saw in nature. They named the animals and they named the gods whom were each created in the image of man and animals.

This is just unevidenced speculation attempting to justify a preexisting idea. CO2 geysers do exist but they are geological formations and not something you just drill a well to find, add to that, where are the bore holes for these wells? Where are is the evidence that if you had one that the pyramid builders had technology to harness them. Ultimately it is just you claiming atum did it.

No. Every word they said and all the physical evidence says they mustta used linear funiculars. ALL of it. Better, is that my theoiry makes predictions but Egyptology has never made any prediction.

No, you just insist on using your ignorance of physics and personal desires to insist that you are right in opposition to all evidence.

By the way please give us your definition of mnemonic because while it has not been commented on it appears you are using it in a very different way than others.

 

[GoodAttention]

Generally when presenting a hypothesis it is usually followed by evidence that the hypothesis is in accordance with it. In this case what is this sub pyramid with 30 degree angles? If made of quarried blocks, how does it acheive a smooth surface when arranged in a pyramidal form?

It is finished with a white limestone cast, which would make a smooth surface upon which to move large objects.

Ground limestone is an interesting idea, but have you any evidence that we could confuse hamburger for steak? Any evidence that much or most of the Pyramids are hamburger?

What are you on about? If you are going to reply to me, keep your condescending muppetry to zero.