How did the Jewish god become an International Sensation?

[Rainbow Mage]

This is the Abrahamic god we are talking about, and the god of the Hebrews, later the Christians and still later the Muslims. I see the correlation between Moses' god and the Aten (a form of Ra) of Egyptian, the world's first monotheistic thinking religion founded by Pharaoh Akhenaten who reigned during the life of Moses (some scholars believe them to be one and the same).

The Roman Empire was rather considerable, Constantine converted to Christianity and proclaimed the Empire to be Christian (one emperor, one religion). This surely helped propagate the Belief System.

I disagree with this. I don't think the Jewish god was taken from the Aten disk. Aten worship wasn't about worshipping Aten, it was about worshipping Akhenaten and his family as the mediators of Aten on earth. It was a cult of personality. Aten's worship before and after the Atenist heresy is as a form of Ra-Heruakhety, Ra symbolized in the sun disk.

 

[AxisMundi]

I disagree with this. I don't think the Jewish god was taken from the Aten disk. Aten worship wasn't about worshipping Aten, it was about worshipping Akhenaten and his family as the mediators of Aten on earth. It was a cult of personality. Aten's worship before and after the Atenist heresy is as a form of Ra-Heruakhety, Ra symbolized in the sun disk.

"Akhenaten and his family as the mediators of Aten on earth".

Sounds like any number of Abrahamic clergy to me.

Aten, as Atenanken worshipped, is considered a synthisis of some of the earliest of the Egyptian pantheon, with doses of Ra and Horus thrown in for good measure.

The Sun Disk one sees with the rays of the sun shapped like hands is the symbol of Aten/Amen.

And there is simply too much mounting evidence suggesting that Aten/Amen evolved into Jehovah as well.

The very name itself, Amen.

Early Torah containing Egyptian burial spells word for word.

Atenaken's "Great Hymn to the Aten" very possibly being the basis for Psalms 104.

And one simply cannot deny that the timelines involved are quite conductive to the hypothesis of Aten/Amen evolving into Jehovah, a religion hidden among the Jewish slaves of the Egyptian empire after Aten was outlawed.

 

[AxisMundi]

Oh, sorry, just noticed your religious affiliation. Much of what psoted you should already know.

Please cosnider it merely informing the masses.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well the view though was that the people could not even talk to the Aten disk directly. They couldn't pray to it. Only Akhenaten claimed he could, and that his family members should be worshipped like Tefnut and Shu. It was a personality cult. I'd love to see this "evidence" that Aten evolved into Jehovah. And actually, Amen is an English translation of Amun, a Egyptian word. Amun is the firstborn of the Atum, the Complete One. Amun has a iconic form, Atum has no form, so it would make more sense to claim Jehovah was based on Atum. Amun is the first emination of Atum, and Ra the second, later worshipped together as Amun-Ra.

 

[xkatz]

This is the Abrahamic god we are talking about, and the god of the Hebrews, later the Christians and still later the Muslims. I see the correlation between Moses' god and the Aten (a form of Ra) of Egyptian, the world's first monotheistic thinking religion founded by Pharaoh Akhenaten who reigned during the life of Moses (some scholars believe them to be one and the same).

Actually, I read on another thread here on RF that the Pharaoh Akhenaten practiced Henotheism, meaning he worshipped Aten as the head of the Egyptian pantheon (if that is proper terminology), not as the sole deity of the Egyptians. That said, Judaism did start out Monolatrous or perhaps even Henotheistic, so it's not impossible that the worship of Aten caught on in Canaan.

Anyways, as to the OP, I don't think it's the "Jewish version of G-d" that caught on.

In Christianity, it is mainly Jesus who became the sensation and the New Testament and Christianity theology superseded the Old Testament and it's theology in Christianity. Not to mention Paul's influence when it came to the Trinity among other things. In that respect, it was Pauline Christianity that became a real hit.

Islam, began fairly similarly to Judaism. They once had a pantheon of gods, with Allah as the head deity. Muhammad was indeed influenced by Judaism and early Christianity, but the religion itself still has some theological differences when compared to the two others.

So, while I would say that Christians and Muslims (not to mention Hindus, Sikhs, and other theistic groups) believe in G-d; I would say their beliefs in G-d differ drastically at some points, especially when it comes to Trinitarian Christianity.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yes XKatz I always found that particular fact very interesting, that prior to Islam, Allah was the head of a pantheon of gods. That leads to the question, how did that come to be, if Allah is truly the God of Abraham? Although Allah was not the god of kabba, that was Hubal. Allah was seen as the one who needed mediators to communicate with, which was Hubal and Al-Uzza, etc.

 

[xkatz]

Yes XKatz I always found that particular fact very interesting, that prior to Islam, Allah was the head of a pantheon of gods. That leads to the question, how did that come to be, if Allah is truly the God of Abraham? Although Allah was not the god of kabba, that was Hubal. Allah was seen as the one who needed mediators to communicate with, which was Hubal and Al-Uzza, etc.

Well Allah was still the head of the Arabian pantheon. He was the creator and destroyer, so even if the Kabba wasn't directly dedicated to him, it could of still been considered an important place for the deity.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

How can Allah be linked to Abraham's God is what I'm asking if he was originally the head of a pantheon? Not that I don't agree he is, that's what he's worshipped as now, but that doesn't change that he was originally an entirely different deity.

 

[AxisMundi]

Well the view though was that the people could not even talk to the Aten disk directly. They couldn't pray to it. Only Akhenaten claimed he could, and that his family members should be worshipped like Tefnut and Shu. It was a personality cult. I'd love to see this "evidence" that Aten evolved into Jehovah. And actually, Amen is an English translation of Amun, a Egyptian word. Amun is the firstborn of the Atum, the Complete One. Amun has a iconic form, Atum has no form, so it would make more sense to claim Jehovah was based on Atum. Amun is the first emination of Atum, and Ra the second, later worshipped together as Amun-Ra.

Well, our research obviously differs quite a bit. Mine started in libraries as the internets hadn't been invented yet.

But if you will read what you posted you will see that the exact entimology of Amen is moot, as we both agree it is Egyptian on origin.

 

[xkatz]

How can Allah be linked to Abraham's God is what I'm asking if he was originally the head of a pantheon? Not that I don't agree he is, that's what he's worshipped as now, but that doesn't change that he was originally an entirely different deity.

That is a mystery in of itself, even assuming that the legend behind the Kabba was true.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Like it's weird. Allah goes from being spoken of, as: "Hey let's go pray to Hubal and Al-Uzza, and maybe Allah will recieve our prayers through them." to: "Allah is only one God, far be he above what they associate with him. Those who give associates to Allah utter a grievous offense."

 

[AxisMundi]

How can Allah be linked to Abraham's God is what I'm asking if he was originally the head of a pantheon? Not that I don't agree he is, that's what he's worshipped as now, but that doesn't change that he was originally an entirely different deity.

Allah has simply evolved from the "head" god to "the" god.

Arab Christians will also say Allah, in reference to Jehovah.

There are litterally centuries of linguistic evolution involved, whether Jehovah from Egypitian roots to Allah referencing the god of Abraham.

 

[EtuMalku]

Ibrāhīm is the Arabic name of the biblical patriarch Abraham. Islam regards many sorts of the biblical patriarchs as prophets of God (meaning a discoverer of monotheism without being taught by a messenger). Because of their mutual veneration for Abraham, Islam, Christianity and Judaism are sometimes summarized under the term "Abrahamic religions".
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Abraham is called Ibrahim by Muslims. They see him as the father of the Arab people as well as the Jewish people through his two sons, Isaac and Ishmael (Isma'il in Arabic).
Article

Muslims believe in a chain of prophets starting with Adam and including Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elias, Jonah, John the Baptist, and Jesus, peace be upon them.
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Etc. Etc. Etc.

How can Allah be linked to Abraham's God is what I'm asking if he was originally the head of a pantheon? Not that I don't agree he is, that's what he's worshipped as now, but that doesn't change that he was originally an entirely different deity.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Etu Maliku, I knew all that, and the Islamic belief of prophets. I am a former Muslim. I was merely pointing out that prior to Islam, Allah was one of many Arab deities.

 

[EtuMalku]

A 'dead' (Book of the Dead) giveaway are the Commandments that Moses supposedly received, they are almost identical to the 'Negative Confessions' found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

All Pharaohs were mediators between Physical Mankind and the gods, not just Akhenaten, but Akhenaten was the first historically known person to begin a form of Monotheism.

It is recorded that directly after Akhenaten's reign (death) all of Egypt went back to their previous religious beliefs.

EM

I disagree with this. I don't think the Jewish god was taken from the Aten disk. Aten worship wasn't about worshipping Aten, it was about worshipping Akhenaten and his family as the mediators of Aten on earth. It was a cult of personality. Aten's worship before and after the Atenist heresy is as a form of Ra-Heruakhety, Ra symbolized in the sun disk.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

A 'dead' (Book of the Dead) giveaway are the Commandments that Moses supposedly received, they are almost identical to the 'Negative Confessions' found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

All Pharaohs were mediators between Physical Mankind and the gods, not just Akhenaten, but Akhenaten was the first historically known person to begin a form of Monotheism.

It is recorded that directly after Akhenaten's reign (death) all of Egypt went back to their previous religious beliefs.

EM

But no other pharoahs ever said the common people shouldn't talk to the gods like Akhenaten said about Aten. Also the 10 mitzvot are only similar to the 32 confessions, they're not identical. The 32 confessions are supposedly not only a funerary heka, but they're also used to show that a person who commits evil acts brings evil spirits into their lives against their own souls, until the gods remove their sin or they die.

 

[fallingblood]

Before Islam, Allah was also used by Christians and Jews to signify their God. Really, it isn't weird if you look at what Allah translates to, and the fact that it was used by the Abrahamic religions before Islam came into existence. It didn't take much research to find that out. Especially since some Christians and Jews still use Allah as their term for God.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Before Islam, Allah was also used by Christians and Jews to signify their God. Really, it isn't weird if you look at what Allah translates to, and the fact that it was used by the Abrahamic religions before Islam came into existence. It didn't take much research to find that out. Especially since some Christians and Jews still use Allah as their term for God.

But isn't Arab Paganism older then Judaism and Christianity?

 

[xkatz]

But isn't Arab Paganism older then Judaism and Christianity?

Well is Arab paganism old than Canaanite paganism or Greco-Roman paganism?

 

[fallingblood]

But isn't Arab Paganism older then Judaism and Christianity?

Would it honestly matter? Christianity and Judaism came from a different area. So you would have to show that Arab Paganism influenced these religions while still in their own area. Plus, Judaism is quite possibly, and likely, to be older than Arab Paganism.

In addition, just the definition of Allah would make a very logical reason for it to be used. Also, seeing that it was also used in other semitic languages, that were distant from Arab Paganism, so there is no reason to believe that Arab Paganism influenced the Islamic usage of Allah.