How do Baha’is see atheists?

[lukethethird]

I think you need to change your profile. For religion it says "Xian", which is a common shorthand for Christian.

I am a member of the Anglican church, deal with it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am a member of the Anglican church, deal with it.

My dad was raised in the Anglican church. My mom was raised in the Greek Orthodox church.
They both dropped out later, before the children were born, so I never saw the inside of a church, except when my sister and I snuck into the lobby to get ice cream bars.

 

[lukethethird]

To tell you the truth, I believe most of the people who are theists or deists, are more disbelievers of the True God, than Atheists.
That's because most people who believe in a God, their God is a product of their own imagination, thus has nothing to do with the True God. But Atheists reject any false gods.

Atheists don't define the gods, that is a dilemma that theists are burdened with, all that is left for atheists to do is smile and wave, not their problem.

 

[Truthseeker]

As usual, followers of a religion embellish what the Founder said.

Baha'u'llah did not claim to fulfill the prophecies of Buddhism and Hinduism. He only ever said He was the return of Christ and the coming of the Father as prophesized in the Bible.

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18​

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“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….”​

Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19​

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“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85​

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“Turn your faces towards Him, O concourse of the righteous… This is the day whereon the Rock (Peter) crieth out and shouteth, and celebrateth the praise of its Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High, saying: ‘Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!…’”​

Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85​

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“WE, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit (Jesus), and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray… Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) verily, standeth before them.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 92​

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“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith:When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246​

That doesn't mean He did not fulfill them, only that He never claimed to. He would have had to fulfill them if He was the Promised One of all the religions, which is a Baha'i belief.

As a further testimony to the greatness of the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh may be cited the following extracts from a Tablet addressed by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá to an eminent Zoroastrian follower of the Faith: “Thou hadst written that in the sacred books of the followers of Zoroaster it is written that in the latter days, in three separate Dispensations, the sun must needs be brought to a standstill. In the first Dispensation, it is predicted, the sun will remain motionless for ten days; in the second for twice that time; in the third for no less than one whole month. The interpretation of this prophecy is this: the first Dispensation to which it refers is the Muḥammadan Dispensation during which the Sun of Truth stood still for ten days. Each day is reckoned as one century. The Muḥammadan Dispensation must have, therefore, lasted no less than one thousand years, which is precisely the period that has elapsed from the setting of the Star of the Imámate to the advent of the Dispensation proclaimed by the Báb. The second Dispensation referred to in this prophecy is the one inaugurated by the Báb Himself, which began in the year 1260 A.H. and was brought to a close in the year 1280 A.H. As to the third Dispensation— the Revelation proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh— inasmuch as the Sun of Truth when attaining that station shineth in the plenitude of its meridian splendor its duration hath been fixed for a period of one whole month, which is the maximum time taken by the sun to pass through a sign of the Zodiac. From this thou canst imagine the magnitude of the Bahá’í cycle— a cycle that must extend over a period of at least five hundred thousand years.”
Shoghi Effendi, "The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh"

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In the Book of Isaiah it is written: "Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty." No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day -- the Day of God Himself
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 13)

"Sixteen lunar months, less twenty and two days, had elapsed since the day of the martyrdom of the Báb, when, on the day of Arafih,[1] in the year 1267 A.H.,[2] while I was passing by the gate of the inner courtyard of the shrine of the Imam Husayn, my eyes, for the first time, fell upon Bahá'u'lláh. What shall I recount regarding the countenance which I beheld! The beauty of that face, those exquisite features which no pen or brush dare describe, His penetrating glance, His kindly face, the majesty of His bearing, the sweetness of His smile, the luxuriance of His jet-black flowing locks, left an indelible impression upon my soul. I was then an old man, bowed with age. How lovingly He advanced towards me! He took me by the hand and, in a tone which at once betrayed power and beauty, addressed me in these words: 'This very day I have purposed to make you known as a Bábí throughout Karbila.' Still holding my hand in His, He continued to converse with me. He walked with me all along the market-street, and in the end He said: 'Praise be to God that you have remained in Karbila, and have beheld with your own eyes the countenance of the promised Husayn.'
(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 32)

 

[lukethethird]

My dad was raised in the Anglican church. My mom was raised in the Greek Orthodox church.
They both dropped out later, before the children were born, so I never saw the inside of a church, except when my sister and I snuck into the lobby to get ice cream bars.

You should have quit while you were ahead.

 

[Trailblazer]

In the Book of Isaiah it is written: "Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty." No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day -- the Day of God Himself
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 13)

It is too bad most people have failed to recognize the greatness of this Cause, but nobody can make anyone else see what is self-evident to us.

 

[Trailblazer]

You should have quit while you were ahead.

There was nothing to quit, just something to join. Now I am ahead.

 

[Truthseeker]

I am a member of the Anglican church, deal with it.

A Christian atheist then? Odd.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Baha'u'llah did not claim to fulfill the prophecies of Buddhism and Hinduism. He only ever said He was the return of Christ and the coming of the Father as prophesized in the Bible. That doesn't mean He did not fulfill them, only that He never claimed to. He would have had to fulfill them if He was the Promised One of all the religions, which is a Baha'i belief.

That is a relief. Hinduism and Buddhism (I am half Buddhist) would not like to be associated with the Abrahamic falsehood.
That is going beyond what your manifestation said. That is heresy. Don't do that. Remember "Great is the retribution of Allah".
It is just some sects of Hinduism and Buddhism that believe in Kalki or Maitreya, not all Hindus or Buddhists.
I do not even believe in existence of Gods and Goddesses. So, who will send messengers?

 

[Trailblazer]

That is a relief. Hinduism and Buddhism (I am half Buddhist) would not like to be associated with The Abrahamic falsehood.
That is going beyond what your manifestation said. That is heresy. Don't do that. Remember "Great is the retribution of Allah".
It is just some sects of Hinduism and Buddhism that believe in Kalki or Maitreya, not all Hindus or Buddhists.
I do not even believe in existence of Gods and Goddesses. So, who will send messengers?

What's in a belief? No beliefs can be proven so it is all a matter of what people choose to believe, which is subjective.
I believe in God and I see truth in all these religions, so I guess that's one reason I am a Baha'i.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What's in a belief? No beliefs can be proven so it is all a matter of what people choose to believe, which is subjective.
I believe in God and I see truth in all these religions, so I guess that's one reason I am a Baha'i.

Since no one ever in all history has shown any evidence of God, soul, heaven, hell. end of days, prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations, Mahdis; so your belief is very much subjective. Not just subjective, but superstitious as well. You have yourself accepted there is no way to prove existence og God and the truth of the claim that a person is a messenger of any God.
In that case, my belief is more objective. I do not believe in existence of a pink unicorn or that there is an elephant in my cup-board.

 

[Trailblazer]

Since no one ever in all history has shown any evidence of God, soul, heaven, hell. end of days, prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations, Mahdis; so your belief is very much subjective. Not just subjective, but superstitious as well. . You have yourself accepted the non-provability of God and manifestations many a times.
In that case, my belief is more objective. I do not believe in existence of a pink unicorn or that there is an elephant in my cup-board.

Yes, my belief is subjective, although it is based upon objective evidence. How is your belief is objective?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, my belief is subjective, although it is based upon objective evidence. How is your belief is objective?

Well, difference of view here. I do not consider the rants of a 19th Century uneducated Iranian who was trying to prove himself as a messenger of a fictitious entity, God, as objective. It may have been enough for the 19th Century Iranians. I wonder how people in 21st Century believe and so vehemently advocate all that day and night! There has to be a reason. Are they paid to do that? It is said that Bahais need some sort of approval from the House of Justice to comment on their faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, difference of view here. I do not consider the rants of a 19th Century uneducated Iranian who was trying to prove himself as a messenger of a fictitious entity, God, as objective.

Objective evidence is evidence that we can examine and evaluate for ourselves.
Objective evidence - definition and meaning - Market ...

We can examine and evaluate the evidence for Baha'u'llah for ourselves because there are actual facts surrounding the Person, the Life, and the Mission of Baha'u'llah.

It may have been enough for the 19th Century Iranians. I wonder how people in 21st Century believe and so vehemently advocate all that day and night! There has to be a reason.

The reason is because we believe it.

Are they paid to do that? It is said that Bahais need some sort of approval from the House of Justice to comment on their faith.

Baha'is are not paid to teach the Baha'i Faith nor do we need approval from the UHJ to teach the Faith.

 

[danieldemol]

That doesn't mean He did not fulfill them, only that He never claimed to. He would have had to fulfill them if He was the Promised One of all the religions, which is a Baha'i belief.

According to my understanding Baha'u'llah claimed to be spoken of in all religions which I believe amounts to the same thing;

"Thou hast pronounced sentence against them for whom the books of the world have wept, and in whose favor the scriptures of all religions have testified"

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Pages 61-80

 

[danieldemol]

Are they paid to do that?

Probably not financially, however plenty of people are motivated by respect in the eyes of their peer groups in my view.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Objective evidence is evidence that we can examine and evaluate for ourselves.

Science works in thousands of fields, and evaluation requires specialization and special equipment. I cannot evaluate theories of Quantum Mechanics. Therefore, science has this system of peer-evaluation. We put our faith only in reputed scientific institutions, universities and science journals which spend billions of dollars on this and where this evaluation is carried on (like in CERN, where scientists from many countries participate). I do not have any doubts about their efficacy or honesty. That is not like the writing or saying of a 19th Century uneducated self-seeking Iranian.

 

[CG Didymus]

You are guessing they are genuine and truthful. They offer no evidence that they are. For some reason you are convinced,

Being convinced that their guy is telling the truth and is a messenger of God is one thing. You know all that "his message, his writings, he spent his whole life in prison and in exile... why would he do that unless he was telling the truth." Yeah, yeah, that's great... he was a nice guy and he sounded super-wise and spiritual, but to those of us who read some of the things he said in his writings... Well, maybe it's not all that great.

Like you've pointed out, there is what he says about gays. Really? God told him that homosexuals are sick and need therapy?

For me a big problem with what he says is that all these people like Abraham and Moses, and even Adam were all these special manifestations of God. Supposedly perfect reflections of God. Then somewhere along the line the Baha'i Faith included Krishna and Buddha. How are Baha'is going to verify that these people were real and not mythical? And what was written about them, what they did and what they said and taught, is accurate? Baha'is can't and don't. Even with the Bible, the Baha'is say they can't be sure of its authenticity.

So, to me, it's a good story. The Baha'is have found a way to include all the major religions into their beliefs in such a way to make it seem like all of them were true and from God. But then they've found a way to make them all untrue. They all have Scriptures that are questionable. And they all had various religious and spiritual leaders interpret those Scriptures that took the religion away from its original teachings. Which for the Baha'is, it means they corrupted the true teachings of the religion.

Another big problem I have with the Baha'i teachings is how they do away with the resurrection in Christianity. If it didn't happen, the easiest thing for them to say is that it was a hoax. But they can't do that. Instead they say that is was "symbolic". All those verses in the gospels that say Jesus came back to life, they make into a fictional story like a parable?

These same kinds of problems exist with all the religions. Why do people believe in them? There are some good things they get from believing. But, since all these beliefs are so different, are any of them true? And does it matter? No, as long as the followers of the religion believe it, that's all that is important. And for years now, those of us that question the teachings of the Baha'i Faith, are faced with going up against people that are convinced that their beliefs are absolutely true. They're not going to give in. But, as we know, they don't have any proof. And the only "evidence" they have is trusting and believing in what their religion tells them is true... God is real, and Baha'u'llah is his true messenger/manifestation.

 

[CG Didymus]

But you got your last thing.

I'm not sure how much of the Baha'i Faith she got. I think she's said that she doesn't participate in her community. So, that would be like a Christian that doesn't go to Church.

For a Baha'i, if they can't get along with other Baha'is, then what's all this talk about unity and that all people are one? And the Baha'is I knew all had problems with other Baha'is. But they had to find ways to overcome those problems and learn to get along and work with each other.

 

[F1fan]

Yes, my belief is subjective, although it is based upon objective evidence. How is your belief is objective?

No it isn't. When Baha'u'llah writes that he is a messenger of God that is not objective evidence. It is a claim.