How Do Christians Reconcile The Following Question Regarding Their Faith?

[A Vestigial Mote]

The Apostle Peter said, "Noah was a preacher." On top of building the Ark, he witnessed to those people telling them what God was going to do, giving them a chance. (Why should they have listened? 1: Because of Genesis 6:1-4(?)....angel/human hybrid DNA was polluting the human race, producing what/who were called the Nephilim. These giants were bullies, taking what they wanted....violence was everywhere! 2: Noah didn't have to gather all the animals, they "came to" him! That was evidence of God's direction, that He was behind all of this.)

"I didn't kill them! The water did!" - God

What about God killing Pharaoh and the Egyptians? Once you saw, as Moses said, the frogs, the gnats, and the darkness, coming over the entire land, would you have kept obstinate? (Not me! I would have let the Israelites go, maybe, after Moses' staff becoming a snake ate the others!) See, they were given a chance, with powerful evidence.

Were the first-born of each Egyptian household given a chance? Were they told about the lamb's blood marking that need placed on the door? Oh wait... no, that's right, they weren't. Some of them were even babies. Oh! But their parents were, right? Then that's fair. Those babies and young kids deserved what they got because of their parents' obstinance. Makes total sense to me now. Err... hmm...

What about the Canaanites? From the Jericho and Rahab account, we learn that they knew what happened to Egypt, but still wanted to fight against the Israelites! Could they have 'given up', and joined the Israelites? Yes, because the account tells us the Gibeonites did, and were allowed to live, subject to the Israelites, as drawers of water. Israel even protected them from the other Canaanites! If foreigners wanted to become worshippers of Jehovah, Jehovah accepted them!

And yeah, it's totally okay that the Israelites brought on all of the atrocities of war on the Canaanites. Especially "good" since God was backing them. Always nice to know you have a heavy hitter in your corner and can therefore explain away all of your murder, maiming, destruction and thievery.

 

[Marcion]

I was a devoted Christian for a very long time, 25 years or more - a Trinity believing Protestant taught that our creator God is omniscient (all-knowing) omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time). This creator designed and created men and women fully and completely all by 'himself'.

What I don't understand, is if this creator purposefully designed and unleashed upon the earth a creature capable of rape and murder, why isn't 'He' to blame for these atrocities? Why would you construct a being with the potential to do so much harm to his fellow humans? What was the motive?

If my son murdered a human and I supplied the gun knowing ahead of time he'd shoot someone, I'm held accountable for my part in the homicide. How much more so should God be held accountable for DESIGNING a creature that he KNOWS ahead of time (he's omniscient, remember) will murder a fellow human?

God is behind/within this universe with its many galaxies, stars, planets and life forms.
Human beings have only been more or less civilized for a few thousand years, so they may in special situations still behave like animals.
Lions devour innocent looking herbivores all the time, that is part of the how life functions and evolves.
I believe in reincarnation and karma so no-one and nothing gets away with anything.

Just because God as a rule does not interfere with this natural system does not mean that He does not feel for suffering creatures.
How can He not feel for them if they are His own creations, His own children?
Nature functions by natural laws of action and reaction (including the law of karma), disturbing this system in an unnatural way would have grave consequences.
God created this universe in such a way that all creatures evolve mentally and spiritually by clash and cohesion, they have to feel both pleasure and pain in order to survive and to evolve to higher levels. It is not easy to understand how God can allow the worst types of torture and extreme pains in humans and animals to exist, but who can really understand how and why this huge universe develops?

 

[prometheus11]

If we were limited with regard to choice and will, we wouldn't be human.

You enjoy unlimited choices?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

There is so much difference between what the Bible really means, and what people are taught.

If only I had a dollar for every time I'd heard this from someone. I might even be able to tithe to the church for the rest of my life without even giving from my actual earnings!

 

[sojourner]

According to how I read it, temptation is free will to sin. Outside of that temptation, you have full worship and obedience to god. The consesus is "if you believe thr choice is Yours and not from god, its a sin"

Then free will of any sort is a sin, and God is not love. Which goes against what we're told in the bible.

 

[sojourner]

I disagree. I rather have a choice between which fruits to pick from the tree than choosing choosing between life in pain or death in mystery. I think its more ego from a christian view if people want to put all their faith in christ. That inherited sin makez people feel they cant be like Jesus. I honestly feel thats a wrong way to look at christian lifestyle. Thats me.

I have no idea what you're talking about. It appears to not be cogent to the post you quoted.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then free will of any sort is a sin, and God is not love. Which goes against what we're told in the bible.

Thats how it was explained to me. It was like without free will, then that person will have no choice to worship god. He figure that is the best relationship, that of god leading him to do whatever god wanted him to do rather than, that person doing the act of loving god; taking credit for loving god by choice.

He belittled his choice to love god saying that its from god that he believes and not the other way around.

I think he believes in predestination...if thats related.

 

[sojourner]

You enjoy unlimited choices?

We are free to choose as we will.

 

[prometheus11]

We are free to choose as we will.

Please answer the question.

 

[Thana]

I thought Christian theology says that sin brought death into the world, that nothing died before Adam and Eve brought all of creation into chaos. So you are saying that God created death, that death is part of the perfect design? Than why all this other business about destroying death in Christian theology? Isn't that Anti-God then? That doesn't fit the myth from my understanding.

Are you trying to say that Death was an effect outside of God's control?
He created it, like He created the tree.

And I'm not sure why you've brought 'perfect' into it. I don't recall suggesting anything like that.

 

[sojourner]

Thats how it was explained to me. It was like without free will, then that person will have no choice to worship god. He figure that is the best relationship, that of god leading him to do whatever god wanted him to do rather than, that person doing the act of loving god; taking credit for loving god by choice.

He belittled his choice to love god saying that its from god that he believes and not the other way around.

I think he believes in predestination...if thats related.

Well, as I said, in that case, free will is a sin, which means that love, as it is defined in the bible, is also sinful. The position makes 0 theological sense.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have no idea what you're talking about. It appears to not be cogent to the post you quoted.

I rather not have a free choice to commit sins. I find no love in giving free will to humans "for that purpose" to be saved later on.

Rather.

We can still have freedom of choice. Instead of god puting the tree in the garden, he could have just let adam and eve do as they please

Making choices among positive options that please god.

Taking out satan in the picture too. Given if this is a literal event.

 

[sojourner]

Please answer the question.

I thought I did? We are free to choose as we will. IOW, our choices are limited only by our will to make those choices.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, as I said, in that case, free will is a sin, which means that love, as it is defined in the bible, is also sinful. The position makes 0 theological sense.

Free will does not need to be a sin if god have the first humans choices among good options that please god.

If I were god, I would not give humans free will to sin. I will give them free will to love me. They would have positive things to choose from. I would not punish them for not loving mw but if they didnt, that isnt a sin because there is no options other tha positive to turn to.

 

[sojourner]

I rather not have a free choice to commit sins. I find no love in giving free will to humans "for that purpose" to be saved later on.

Rather.

We can still have freedom of choice. Instead of god puting the tree in the garden, he could have just let adam and eve do as they please

Making choices among positive options that please god.

Taking out satan in the picture too. Given if this is a literal event.

If you have no free will to sin, you have no real choice, which means that you cannot freely engage in love. The "purpose" of free will isn't "so we can be saved." The purpose of free will is so that we can love.

 

[sojourner]

Free will does not need to be a sin if god have the first humans choices among good options that please god.

"Love does not insist on its own way." Limited choices according to one party is "insisting on [that party's] way" and, therefore, is not love (which goes against God's nature).

 

[prometheus11]

I thought I did? We are free to choose as we will. IOW, our choices are limited only by our will to make those choices.

Nope. Your "free will" is limited by power. No matter how much you will it, can you fly to Saturn by flapping your arms?

 

[Thana]

This is NOT an interesting question, as it is posed here. The analogy is awful. Does clay live and breathe? Think? Feel? Does pain enter into the equation upon the "murder" of clay? Pain not only of the clay itself, but all of its' clay friends? We're not talking about baubles you set on the shelf for display. We're talking about human beings, of which you and I happen to be members. We are ABLE to ask the questions - and why not ask them?

As a father I welcome any question my children may have for me, and there have been times I have had to come to an understanding that some actions I undertook were not fair to the child, whom I love and respect to an enormous degree. The words, and even JUDGMENTS, of my children to me are, therefore, extremely important to me in order to be able to make sure that I am doing the best job I can in raising and fostering them. Does God not also feel this way? If He does not then I would state that He does not care about us. Perhaps we are "just as clay" to Him. And if that is the case then there IS NO REASON TO PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO HIM. I don't care if He created me - and I don't care what He feels is adequate punishment for my "crime" of disbelief. He supposedly has every opportunity to hear me out and course-correct our relationship. That He apparently refuses (or, more likely, because He's not there) forces my hand. I can't care about Him. There is no reason to.

Comparing our sentience to God, is in my opinion, equivalent to comparing humans with clay. Kind of why I went with that analogy.

And I... really don't know what to say to people who think as you do. Not because there are no words because there are, but because people like you can't hear them. Your rationality is just too different to my own.

 

[sojourner]

Free will does not need to be a sin if god have the first humans choices among good options that please god.

If I were god, I would not give humans free will to sin. I will give them free will to love me. They would have positive things to choose from. I would not punish them for not loving mw but if they didnt, that isnt a sin because there is no options other tha positive to turn to.

insisting that the only choice is to "do God's will" is to force compliance, which isn't love.

 

[prometheus11]

"Love does not insist on its own way." Limited choices according to one party is "insisting on [that party's] way" and, therefore, is not love (which goes against God's nature).

Are you saying that God doesn't insist on receiving worship and belief?

Or are you saying that God does not love us because he insists on all sorts of requirements?