How do Christians view Judaism?

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

That could mean ANYTHING. Declaring your denomination, or the denomination closest to your personal set of beliefs gives us a short cut to where you are coming from, helps us get to know you. It saves you from writing a lengthy post on your beliefs in order to accomplish the same thing.

Indeed, on this forum, 'christian' could mean anything.

Perhaps I am not interested in giving you a 'short cut'. I believe the Bible, both Old and New Testaments are the Word of God. I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only Saviour for man. That includes Israel also.

I consider myself orthodox and Dispensational in my beliefs.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Harel13]

The truth is that Judaism really isn't Christianity minus Jesus.

I think that some Christians disagree with you on that, which is why I'm interested in hearing their thoughts on the subject. I think that as Jews we all agree that it's not the case, but that's our Jewish perspective. I would like to hear the Christian perspective.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Saying Jesus is not God not the Messiah is not what put Jesus on the Cross. Jesus was put on the cross because claiming to be the Messiah was a threat to Pax Romana.

That's a crock.

(Matt. 26:62-68)

The Jews played the Caesar card to Pilate to threaten him and it worked. But Jesus was sent to the Cross by the Jews because He claimed to be the Son of God the Messiah.

It is so strange that the Jews can kill the Messiah, and are scattered now over all the earth due to their constant rebellion against God, and still claim they are being obedient to God. The blood of Jesus Christ rests upon Israel which is what they wanted and what they got. (Matt. 27:25)

Israel did to Jesus what she did with her own prophets before Him. Yet she wants to claim some sort of obedience to God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Harel13]

It is so strange that the Jews can kill the Messiah, and are scattered now over all the earth due to their constant rebellion against God, and still claim they are being obedient to God.

It's so strange that about six million Jews now live in their very own thriving country. How utterly absurd.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Jesus died because of the sins of ALL humanity. That is Christian doctrine. So ALL of humanity is guilty for his death, not just Jews.

That Jesus death is due to the sin of the world, yes.

But Israel is responsible for that death. Scripture is clear. Of course I realize you are not Christian so you only use the Scriptures you want to and disregard the rest.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

It's so strange that about six million Jews now live in their very own thriving country. How utterly absurd.

With no temple or sacrifice. Yet 'thriving'? Indeed the god of economics drive the Jews. Which will result in your acceptance of the anti-christ when he comes.

You can't even pray on top of your temple mount and you consider yourself thriving.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Jim]

That the people were not aware of all that this faith entailed is immaterial. ... They exercised faith in God toward that which pertained to Messiah.

Thank you. That’s very helpful.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Thank you. That’s very helpful.

It's not meant to be helpful to your perversion of faith. Faith must be directed towards what God wants it directed towards. If one does not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and only Saviour, his faith, no matter what it is in, is void.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Harel13]

With no temple or sacrifice. Yet 'thriving'? Indeed the god of economics drive the Jews. Which will result in your acceptance of the anti-christ when he comes.

You can't even pray on top of your temple mount and you consider yourself thriving.

All of this is way better than being dispersed and hated throughout the nations, kicked out from place to place every century or so, outlawed and looked down upon and treated as fourth-class citizens (and in some cases, perhaps not even citizens), stuck with the most hated of gentile work fields (like the horrible "money-lending").

It took nearly 2000 years for us to start returning to Israel. Things take time. In less than 80 years, we jumped from 600,000 Jews to 6,000,000 Jews. We started as a poor country that had to ration food for the first couple of decades - something out of the Great Depression. We were attacked multiple times and managed to come out on top every time. We've seen impressive successes in many fields: science, warfare, intelligence, economics, health, literature, art, sports, etc. Even as Jews worldwide are still being attacked - the governments of the world are attempting to protect them - at least partially because someone finally has their backs. Israel.

For the first 19 years of the State of Israel, we had no access to our holy places, while every other person - Christian, Muslim, etc - did. And then we turned things around, and we can go to our holy sites: The graves of our forefathers, the Western Wall, West Jerusalem, the Temple Mount, etc. I can certainly call that progress.

So is everything perfect? Not at all. Do we have much to be thankful for? Yes indeed.

As Zechariah said millennia ago:
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts: There shall yet old men and old women sit in the broad places of Jerusalem, every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the broad places of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the broad places thereof." (Zech. 8:4-5)

 

[Jim]

@Harel13 As a former Christian and as a person who thinks that the Jesus of the gospel stories might be the person that God said to David would be His son, here’s how I’m thinking of it now. Judaism as it is today has qualities and capacities of its own that the world needs. Its relationship with Christianity might be that they took the revelation teachings of Jesus in two different directions, which are both part of what the world needs today.

 

[wizanda]

It's so strange that about six million Jews now live in their very own thriving country. How utterly absurd.

The Zionist taking Israel by force are Gog in Ezekiel 38:8-12, and Christendom supports them (Magog).

The idea the Zionists do not understand the Bible, is because of their Foolish Leaders have lied to them (Zechariah 11:15-17, Ezekiel 34); thus the leaders have blinded them, and put them under the Curse of Moses as stated in Deuteronomy 28:28-29, Zechariah 12:4.

Zechariah 12:1-6 explains that in them trying to take back Jerusalem by force; this then causes all nations to come against them (Zechariah 14:2).

The Fire has to come first in Moses's Curses timeline: Deuteronomy 28 has the Curse, then in Deuteronomy 29:19-27 there is a cleansing by Fire for those who claim to have peace, whilst not listening to the contexts; then the remnant shall return in Deuteronomy 30:1-10.

Therefore Zechariah 8's covenant of Peace, is for those who accept the Marvellous Work (Zechariah 8:6 = Psalms 118)

Rabbinic Judaism/Zionism has taught that the Sanctification of the Lord is in Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:5-6), and in their human temples; when the Source put the Sanctification into the Messiah (Isaiah 5:3).

Thus in Zechariah 12:7-10 is the returning king David as a Divine Being (Elohim) sent back from Heaven; battle bruised by his own people who chose to put him to death (Psalms 89:19-21 = Isaiah 52:13-14 - Marred = Annointed).

Thus to answer your thread, a follower of Yeshua should be opposed to the dumb Zionists; yet due to John, Paul, and Simon the stone (peter) making up Pharisaic Christianity (Ezekiel 20:3), many of them think they're saved by heavily financing Israel, which ultimately leads to the Fire coming (Ezekiel 20:47).

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

The Zionist taking Israel by force

Long time no see wizanda. What force? The UN gave us Israel. That's force?

 

[sooda]

All of this is way better than being dispersed and hated throughout the nations, kicked out from place to place every century or so, outlawed and looked down upon and treated as fourth-class citizens (and in some cases, perhaps not even citizens), stuck with the most hated of gentile work fields (like the horrible "money-lending").

It took nearly 2000 years for us to start returning to Israel. Things take time. In less than 80 years, we jumped from 600,000 Jews to 6,000,000 Jews. We started as a poor country that had to ration food for the first couple of decades - something out of the Great Depression. We were attacked multiple times and managed to come out on top every time. We've seen impressive successes in many fields: science, warfare, intelligence, economics, health, literature, art, sports, etc. Even as Jews worldwide are still being attacked - the governments of the world are attempting to protect them - at least partially because someone finally has their backs. Israel.

For the first 19 years of the State of Israel, we had no access to our holy places, while every other person - Christian, Muslim, etc - did. And then we turned things around, and we can go to our holy sites: The graves of our forefathers, the Western Wall, West Jerusalem, the Temple Mount, etc. I can certainly call that progress.

So is everything perfect? Not at all. Do we have much to be thankful for? Yes indeed.

As Zechariah said millennia ago:
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts: There shall yet old men and old women sit in the broad places of Jerusalem, every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the broad places of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the broad places thereof." (Zech. 8:4-5)

Your population numbers are wrong.

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm
But the Syrian province of Palestine, about one hundred and fifty miles long and fifty miles broad, largely mountainous and sterile, contains at present a population of more than 650,000, divided as follows: Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins,...

 

[sooda]

The Zionist taking Israel by force are Gog in Ezekiel 38:8-12, and Christendom supports them (Magog).

The idea the Zionists do not understand the Bible, is because of their Foolish Leaders have lied to them (Zechariah 11:15-17, Ezekiel 34); thus the leaders have blinded them, and put them under the Curse of Moses as stated in Deuteronomy 28:28-29, Zechariah 12:4.

Zechariah 12:1-6 explains that in them trying to take back Jerusalem by force; this then causes all nations to come against them (Zechariah 14:2).

The Fire has to come first in Moses's Curses timeline: Deuteronomy 28 has the Curse, then in Deuteronomy 29:19-27 there is a cleansing by Fire for those who claim to have peace, whilst not listening to the contexts; then the remnant shall return in Deuteronomy 30:1-10.

Therefore Zechariah 8's covenant of Peace, is for those who accept the Marvellous Work (Zechariah 8:6 = Psalms 118)

Rabbinic Judaism/Zionism has taught that the Sanctification of the Lord is in Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:5-6), and in their human temples; when the Source put the Sanctification into the Messiah (Isaiah 5:3).

Thus in Zechariah 12:7-10 is the returning king David as a Divine Being (Elohim) sent back from Heaven; battle bruised by his own people who chose to put him to death (Psalms 89:19-21 = Isaiah 52:13-14 - Marred = Annointed).

Thus to answer your thread, a follower of Yeshua should be opposed to the dumb Zionists; yet due to John, Paul, and Simon the stone (peter) making up Pharisaic Christianity (Ezekiel 20:3), many of them think they're saved by heavily financing Israel, which ultimately leads to the Fire coming (Ezekiel 20:47).

In my opinion.

Gog and Magog invaded in 628 BC.

 

[wizanda]

Long time no see wizanda.

I'm still here every day checking if I can help anyone understand what is required before Judgement Day; yet generally feel bullied out of social interaction.

What force? The UN gave us Israel. That's force?

In Revelation 9:17 the colours of the Army prepared for Armageddon are the UN colours - hyacinth blue, and sulphur yellow.

In my opinion.

 

[Harel13]

Your population numbers are wrong.

Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07
https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm
But the Syrian province of Palestine, about one hundred and fifty miles long and fifty miles broad, largely mountainous and sterile, contains at present a population of more than 650,000, divided as follows: Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins,...

Ridiculous sources as always, sooda, I'm afraid. You're quoting from a 1920 article! (I have absolutely no idea how you even found that, but what the heck.)
Here's what Wikipedia writes on the Jewish population in Israel in 1947:

Israeli Jews - Wikipedia

So I was off by 30,000. Big whoop. My point wasn't about exact population statistics, but that no one can deny the tremendous population growth Israel has enjoyed over the decades.

 

[Harel13]

I'm still here every day checking if I can help anyone understand what is required before Judgement Day; yet generally feel bullied out of social interaction.

WWIII Iran v. USA fizzled out, huh?

 

[wizanda]

Gog and Magog invaded in 628 BC.

Ezekiel 38-39 have many things we have not seen take place:

There was no Fire and Brimstone recorded in human history, that literally cleansed the whole of mankind in a day.

Yeshua as well as most prophets expected the Baptism of Fire globally; we can show this goes back to some of the earliest religious ideas.

In my opinion.

 

[sooda]

Ridiculous sources as always, sooda, I'm afraid. You're quoting from a 1920 article! (I have absolutely no idea how you even found that, but what the heck.)
Here's what Wikipedia writes on the Jewish population in Israel in 1947:
View attachment 37330
Israeli Jews - Wikipedia

So I was off by 30,000. Big whoop. My point wasn't about exact population statistics, but that no one can deny the tremendous population growth Israel has enjoyed over the decades.

Yes, by 1947 there were 600,000 Jews. The population of Palestine had doubled with European refugees seeking sanctuary,

In 1920 there were 63,000 Jews.

 

[Harel13]

Yes, by 1947 there were 600,000 Jews. The population of Palestine had doubled with European refugees seeking sanctuary,

In 1920 there were 63,000 Jews.

So? Why did you say my statistics were incorrect? Did you see me deny statistics of other years?