Just checking in to see if, after 84 pages and 2,000 plus posts, we have figured out how to detect it. 
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How do you detect "design"?
- Thread starter TagliatelliMonster
- Start date
Just checking in to see if, after 84 pages and 2,000 plus posts, we have figured out how to detect it. 
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Not in the 84 pages.
If you like, I can let you know if it happens within the next 331 posts
Please. I haven't gotten a decent night sleep since this thread started.
Pogo
Well-Known Member
sorry we have been sidetracked into detecting its absence since I posted about bunnies.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Well, we can't because of in effect the problem as to whether objective reality is fair or not. (The evil demon by Descartes)
But if we claim the universe is fair, real, orderly and knowable, then in a sense it is designed to be understandable by humans.
So even methodological naturalism sort of rests on the belief that the universe is designed with humans in mind.
But that is just me having fun with words.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Right now we are talking about important issues such as clouds and the rabbits that we see. But it is about to get political!!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You evil person. May you be attacked by puppies!!sorry we have been sidetracked into detecting its absence since I posted about bunnies.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I see a baby elephant. The ears are so tiny and cute at that age.
Pogo
Well-Known Member
Should We Burn Babar? Political correctness and children’s literature
"Though I’m not an advocate of book-burning, I admit to being troubled by Babar. Not only does he seem to forget about his mother almost immediately after her death, it’s pretty clear that buying stuff is how he does it. Then there’s the arresting image of the two “naked” elephant mothers running behind the car as Babar, Arthur, and Celeste return to their home in the forest — why don’t they get to sit, too? Why don’t they get clothes? (Or don’t they want them?) Babar has clearly, to use contemporary critical language, assimilated the values of the oppressor, and thus becomes the next ruler of his people. It’s a neo-colonialist fable."God 'allows' Satan according to the Book of Job - Job 2:3-6
There was No reason for God to back down to Satan's challenge because that would make Satan look like the victor, that Satan was right
Satan challenges all of us: loose physical health (skin for skin) strike our flesh.... (our physical health) and we would Not serve God
Yes, Adam had knowledge about the evil because God educated Adam at Genesis 2:17
All Adam had to do was step on a bug and see what death is. Surely Adam did Not hide that from Eve.
Eve knew (Gen. 3:3) she would die but Satan deceived Eve that she would Not die - Gen. 3:4 (Gen. 3:5, 3:22)
Eve thought she could choose for herself what was good or what was bad, kind of like Eve being her own goddess
However, Adam was Not deceived according to - 1st Timothy 2:14; Romans 5:12
By Adam breaking the Law in effect Adam was taking the Law out of God's hands and put the Law into MAN's hands
Adam set up People Rule as the 'good' instead of God Rule as the 'good '
Mankind's long history shows MAN has dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
Long before the World Turtle idea the Bible already taught the Earth hangs upon nothing as found at Job 26:10..............................................................................................................
Your argument also suffers from infinite regress or Turtles all the way down.
If complexity requires a designer, then who or what designed the designer ad infinitum.
"Turtles all the way down" is an expression of the problem of infinite regress. The saying alludes to the mythological idea of a World Turtle that supports a flat Earth on its back. It suggests that this turtle rests on the back of an even larger turtle, which itself is part of a column of increasingly larger turtles that continues indefinitely."
Turtles all the way down - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The 'suspending the Earth upon nothing' is designed that way by the Creator
The Creator needs No designer to design the Creator
Jesus believed his God is THE Creator - Rev. 4:11
The Creator has No beginning, No starting point - Psalm 90:2
One person said we look for patterns in things: such as in the clouds
Yes, it is about to get political because the Bible's pattern show that:
Just as God used the Babylonians and then later the Roman armies in the year 70 as His Arm of the Law that pattern will continue
God will use the political/military as His Arm of the Law against corrupted religion
With backing the United Nations can be strengthened to become God's modern day Arm of the Law
Pogo
Well-Known Member
Ah, the Special Pleading fallacy.
Special pleading - Wikipedia
Pogo
Well-Known Member
That is nice, but again we will ask for any reproducible evidence that this god exists and has the capabilities to make the UN or any other group to do anything.
Your God also better hurry up because in about 20 years Islam and its laws will be the majority of the UN.
That done, we need evidence that this god actually did any of the things you claim it did.
Reflected sun light could make the sun appear as stopped. Stay tuned find out the details during Jesus' coming 1000 year reign over Earth
Hindu World Turtle is Not earlier than Genesis
Adam got to name the animals - Genesis 2:19-20
Job 26:10 agrees with known science that the Earth hangs upon nothing
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
You miss the point. If the universe requires a creator to design the complexity, then that creator has to be at least as complex as we are. So it would have required a creator to give rise to explain its own complexity. And the supercreator would have had to be just as complex as the god it designed. And so forth and so forth.
On the other hand, if God's complexity doesn't need to be designed by a God-creator, then the complexity we find in the physical universe doesn't have to be designed either. The ordered complexity we observe in the universe must have arisen by other means. That's where chaos theory becomes relevant to the discussion, because chaos theory explains how ordered patterns emerge from chaotic churning of so-called quantum foam. We don't really need gods to explain how complex patterns arise naturally.
Check history and see that the Roman armies destroyed unfaithful Jerusalem in the year 70 and earlier using the Babylonians.
The UN is the 8th king of Revelation 17:11,17
I like that you say ' hurry up ' because Habakkuk 2:3 says it will Not be late ( No 20 year waiting )
We are at the 'final phase', so to speak of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 with the international work Jesus mentioned
Thus, we are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation' as found at Matthew 25:31-34,37
Pogo
Well-Known Member
my bad, the Hindu World Turtle only predates Genesis by 5 centuries or so, but Job is a thousand years later than the World Turtle.
And while it may not hang on anything, it rests on pillars. 1 Samuel 2:8,
The Bible is not a science book any more than a stopped clock tells time because it is right twice a day.
How then do you account for your use of the pronoun "I"?
If you have a preferred alternative, by all means state it.
By 'world' you mean 'universe', I take it? Yes, it appears so far that we have things in common with distant objects and phenomena, and we set out to explore, describe and explain them.
But those connections are all in the brain. In this context, the universe is divided into two parts: self, and everything else.
How do you see it otherwise?
That's never been my sense of it. The fact that water is still H2O out in the asteroid belt, or in the atmosphere of a planet in another solar system, doesn't mean more than that.
We are not apart from the world, even before we're born, in the sense that it provides us with air, water, food, shelter, society. But in each case a single "I" is aware of this ─ self, and everything else.
So what? Evolution has produced a result that works in practice.
We always knew how to breed, long before we were homo sap.