Sees
Dragonslayer
Hárbardsljóð is very good for the more esoteric/coded stuff, Long-Beard's Poem. Hail the Beard
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How do you feel about Universalists? (Non-Asatruar welcome)
- Thread starter Zephyr
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Hárbardsljóð is very good for the more esoteric/coded stuff, Long-Beard's Poem. Hail the Beard
I've not read the Prose Edda much. I honestly don't regard it a whole lot, considering its source.
Now, why am I not surprised!?
You know, seriously, in the intro of this edition (Penguin Classics), the editor makes no bones about Snorri not being a very nice person. I am almost halfway through it, it is a quick read. I have only seen snips of the Poetic Edda. I have both Bray's and Bellows's editions. I also have a phone app called Daily Asatru that gives a daily verse in each translation as well as a rune for the day. I think that you need to see both translations to get a real feel for what the verse is saying. I may have mentioned all this already. 
Hárbardsljóð is very good for the more esoteric/coded stuff, Long-Beard's Poem. Hail the Beard
I read the Lokasenna and Hárbardsljóð this afternoon, and watched the two videos about Hárbardsljóð. Wow, just wow! Holy hoppin' snot! The levels of metaphor and allegory are mind-boggling. In reading the Hárbardsljóð without any kind of interpretation you'd think it was just two guys with testosterone poisoning measuring their ... well, you know... It actually makes Thor all the more likable because he is not only our protector, he is us.
Sees
Dragonslayer
Yeah there is much more to the traditions than surface-level reading would give...as advanced as anything, more than most. Sometimes within Ásatrú communities people forget how important mystery, secret, higher level, etc. was and is. It doesn't help when most names and such stay untranslated as if they had no meaning - they had the importance over all else. Majority of the stories' details could change and still transfer the "coded" info.
Literal reading hardly represents the aspects, concepts, or common religion of the tribes.
In reading the synopsis of her book, it says that the poets who wrote the stories were so adept at their craft they were able to bury meanings behind the words. It never would have occurred to me in a million years what it meant when Thrymr laid Mjollnir on Thor's lap, dressed as a bride. But taken in the context of the society, it's not just a funny story of the Thunder God getting his jimmies rustled because he had to employ such a ruse to get Mjollnir back. Ohhh no, it's way deeper than that. She says that while cross-dressing and homosexuality were quite accepted, think of the humiliation of a fiercely masculine god dressed as a woman, having a hammer laid in his lap, and what that represented. Yeah, I'd bash some giants' heads too! I'm definitely getting her book... even if I have to put on my blonde wig and harlot red lipstick and go find a street corner in Long Branch that's not already occupied, to afford it. If Odin can give an eye for knowledge, I can put on slingbacks.
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Hárbardsljóð is very good for the more esoteric/coded stuff, Long-Beard's Poem. Hail the Beard
Hail and embrace it. ^_^
Sorry, couldn't help it. Nothing to do with Nordic Lore, just... I have a beard, and I embrace it. ^_^ (The picture is fan art of a Youtuber called The Completionist.)
Now, why am I not surprised!?
I do have the Prose Edda, and do intend to read it. ^_^ It is, after all, one of the primary sources for a lot of what we have on Norse Mythology. Likewise, I do intend to read Heimskringla and Egil's Saga, the former of which was written by Snorri, and the latter of which is suspected of being written by him.
The translation I have is by Anthony Faulkes, and it's the Everyman publication (pretty much because that's the one that was at Half Price Books).
Thing is... Snorri wasn't just a "not nice person", he's the guy whom we can lay sole blame for the loss of Iceland's freedom from Norway, which that nation's founders had gone there seeking in the first place. The guy was a weaselly little rat, far as I'm concerned. It's basically the equivalent of some guy in the near future working the politics in such a way that the US becomes part of the British Commonwealth again. (Though I have always felt that that would be funny, if the US becomes so economically hurt that England comes in and basically saves us on the condition we become part of the Commonwealth again. I'd oppose it, sure, but I'd still laugh.)
To say nothing of the fact that I don't really trust his rendition of the Old Lore, since not only was he Christian himself, but Iceland had been Christian for a little under 200 years by that point. While it's probably much closer to the Old Lore and Spirit than, say, Grimm's Fairy Tales (many of which do contain faint, faint echoes of the Old Lore), I generally prefer the original sources, like those in the Poetic Edda, the Merseberger Incantations, Nibelunglied, etc. I am going through the Poetic Edda in order to come up with "subtitles" for the various Lays, that are descriptive of their contents. ("Thor Wears a Dress to reclaim the Hammer", "Odin Riddles with the Wise Giant", etc.) My hope is that that will help me remember the Edda's contents, so I can better reference them.
I did Daily Asatru for a bit, but found it too... I don't know, it just didn't seem to fit what I need in my spirituality. I'm not terribly interested in memorizing the verses of Voluspa or Havamal, and ... I have a viewpoint of the Runes that I suspect is a HUGE minority in the Asatru/Pagan community (I'd rather not share it here; suffice to say it's not negative, but that a daily app is not my need for them.)
Which book?
Homosexuality and cross-dressing were absolutely fine.it says that the poets who wrote the stories were so adept at their craft they were able to bury meanings behind the words. It never would have occurred to me in a million years what it meant when Thrymr laid Mjollnir on Thor's lap, dressed as a bride. But taken in the context of the society, it's not just a funny story of the Thunder God getting his jimmies rustled because he had to employ such a ruse to get Mjollnir back. Ohhh no, it's way deeper than that. She says that while cross-dressing and homosexuality were quite accepted, think of the humiliation of a fiercely masculine god dressed as a woman, having a hammer laid in his lap, and what that represented. Yeah, I'd bash some giants' heads too! I'm definitely getting her book... even if I have to put on my blonde wig and harlot red lipstick and go find a street corner in Long Branch that's not already occupied, to afford it. If Odin can give an eye for knowledge, I can put on slingbacks.
But to be called Ergi... to be called unmanly... the greatest insult of the Viking Age. I believe that a person who was called that was basically within full legal rights to just kill the insulter. I mean, I consider myself basically a Proud Ergi, but I'd still defend the honor of being Ergi and Proud Of It. :yes: (Besides, Odin was also Ergi, from being a practitioner of seiðr.)
I love that story. It's literally the only story I've come across in all the Lore of the world that's unambiguously a comedy. ^_^
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When I talk about the stories, I don't usually use the Old Norse terms and names. I translate them, for the most part. Thunder, Wooden (smitten with wood, the now-obsolete English word that's the equivalent to oðr; not wood as in from a tree), Sky, Beloved Mother, Lady, Lord, Hero... that's how the names would have sounded. I don't use them here, much, because that's not how they're known, but still. I probably should more often.
Great Gap, Fire Land, Ice Land (not the country lol), World Tree, Great Serpent, Great Wolf, Trickster, Slain Hall, Folk Field, Elves, Dwarves, Giants... you know, sometimes I wish English were still closer to the other Germanic languages in terms of it being okay to basically create and use "compoundwords".
But even though these are not the Old Norse terms many Asatruar would be familiar with, I can bet that everyone here knows what I'm talking about with these terms.
I just noticed that all us Heathens on here are dudes. Where the ladies at?
Hail and embrace it. ^_^
Sorry, couldn't help it. Nothing to do with Nordic Lore, just... I have a beard, and I embrace it. ^_^ (The picture is fan art of a Youtuber called The Completionist.)
Ha! I love it.
I used to have a full beard when I was younger. I let it grow so long that it started to get wavy like my hair. If I wasn't all grayish-white I'd probably grow it again, but keep my head shaved.
I just noticed that all us Heathens on here are dudes. Where the ladies at?
...come to think of it, I haven't really seen many female Asatruar. I mean, a female friend of mine identifies as Heathen, and there's the Asatru-themed Youtuber Annika Appelkamp-Decker, but... that's kind of it. (There might be some on this forum, and I just don't know who they are.)
When I first opened the Prose Edda and saw in the Prologue all that business about God Almighty creating... I was like
I think the Poetic Edda, from what I've seen so far, looks to be far more trustworthy. I could never memorize the daily verses. I'm not interested in memorizing them either. I have enough to do right now keeping the names straight. In fact I think I'm a couple of days behind in reading them. I like them for the little tidbits of wisdom and witticisms they provide. but if I read the verse at 9:00 am, rest assured I've forgotten it by 9:20.
Oh sorry... I thought I mentioned it.
The Seed of Yggdrasill-Deciphering the Hidden Messages in Old Norse Myths
I read about ergi somewhere, though it's also on Wikipedia. Ergi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Loki was a fine one to talk of cross-dressing, getting it on with a stallion and being a milk-maid, himself.
When I first opened the Prose Edda and saw in the Prologue all that business about God Almighty creating... I was like
They are.
There's a few subtle references to Christianity in some of the verses, too (there's a line near the end of Voluspa that speaks of "the great godhead which governs all"), but I regard them generally as interpolations, probably not part of the original poems.
Exactly.
Oh sorry... I thought I mentioned it.
The Seed of Yggdrasill-Deciphering the Hidden Messages in Old Norse Myths
Argh. Out of my price range.
Loki is Sleipnir's Mother. :angel2:
Whiterain
Get me off of this planet
I see Snorri's interpretation of the old folk tales as a "Christian" mockery as well as still being a masterpiece.
Other than that I don't want to argue politics. You could be ******* degenerates,for all I know.
Mr.McNallen is an honorable Man if there are any in this cess pool of a world, pardon if his political views are
a little more rigid, as many Elders are, particularly one's with worldly first hand knowledge and an understanding
of their culture and mentality, psychology. I won't fend his daily
bread here.
He's hardly insulting his own history, we all fought to take a piece of this America, I still think
the Government should be far more strict on immigration.
Over and out, Good luck.
Other than that I don't want to argue politics. You could be ******* degenerates,for all I know.
Mr.McNallen is an honorable Man if there are any in this cess pool of a world, pardon if his political views are
a little more rigid, as many Elders are, particularly one's with worldly first hand knowledge and an understanding
of their culture and mentality, psychology. I won't fend his daily
bread here.
He's hardly insulting his own history, we all fought to take a piece of this America, I still think
the Government should be far more strict on immigration.
Over and out, Good luck.
I know.
Consider my response here for lurkers.
There's a difference between rigid views, and just pure, ignorant bile.
If we could, so can they.
peanutbutter63
Member
Being of Asian stock myself, it used to upset me that the folkish Asatru lot weren't accepting of me, but I got over it. Oh heck, I found out later that being alone in faith was perfect! Being obsessed with belonging to this or that group just causes more problems, irrespective of whichever religion one follows. When with a group, you also buy into their politics and issues...
vaguelyhumanoid
Active Member
"Folkish Asatru" strikes me as being mostly comprised of racist ideologues and "family values" types dressed up in heathen clothing. They're taking the admirable idea of exploring the spirituality of one's pagan ancestors and perverting it into a worldview indistinguishable from the Christian far right. It is fine to choose your personal religion based on heritage, or to encourage polytheists to look into the deities of their ancestors. However, the moment one start promoting "racialist" ideas, xenophobia or oppressive sexual/gender roles I want nothing to do with them.
The issue I see with "Folkish" and the belief that only those of Germanic and/or northern European descent should practice Germanic Heathenry is the delicious irony that no one is what they think they are. Before my DNA test I would never have guessed I have Swedish, Irish, British, Baltic area and otherwise Germanic and northern European ancestry. Many of those who believe they are fully northern European will undoubtedly have west Eurasian ancestry (Caucasus, eastern Anatolia, Black Sea area) because the most common maternal line in Europe originated there. I love irony.