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How do you feel about Universalists? (Non-Asatruar welcome)
- Thread starter Zephyr
- Start date
In a thread somewhere I mentioned an excerpt from a .pdf book in which the author outlines 5 different views of Ásatrú theology, ranging from seeing the gods as actual living entities to representations of natural powers to reflections of our own internal natures. The first view would be hard polytheists, the last view might be called atheistic, because the gods are none other than ourselves.
J.R.R. Tolkien drew heavily from Norse, Germanic and Anglo-Saxon mythology in crafting the Middle Earth legendarium. In fact, he called it Middle Earth after 'Midgard', which means... Middle Earth. He named many of the Dwarves after Dwarves in Norse and Germanic mythology. The language of Rohan is none other than Anglo-Saxon: Old English, the language of Beowulf (which he was the first to translate into Modern English). I'm not a gamer, but I'll go out on a limb and say Skyrims is lifted almost directly from Norse mythology. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be sure it's a duck. 
Sees
Dragonslayer
Yeah there is connection with many types of games, stories, movies, etc. It's still in our soul, psyche, spirit, heart, in the bones. Tolkien especially was a great scholar of the old traditions - I see him as an Ásatrúar/Heathen who kept the Christian title simply because of the time's social atmosphere/requirements.
Most people I know who are confirmed/admitted Ásatrú started by feeling a mysterious, spiritual connection to things that show, describe, etc. old values, views, ethos and often includes drawn in by one or two in particular. Sort of like modern mythological extension to Eddas, Sagas and the innumerable folk legends and tales.
Whiterain
Get me off of this planet
I appreciate it as an outsider while my faith in the Norse Gods is convinced, I don't welcome myself
to brandishing Mjolnir charms or tattoo's. I am more Irish/Scot (Norse) than Scandinavian. I
mean, in the previous age I would still be hanged or treated inequally, but that was then. I still
don't welcome myself to it and want to give these newer organization like Asatru and all more
time.
The Celtic Gods may have been familiar to the Norse, I had one or two dreams and they were
speaking Gaelic, which is an undertaking to learn. One was of a beautiful golden/blonde haired
main in an extravagant robe and the other was Lugh, I guess - black hair and beard. It wasn't
a negative experience, I felt they were implying they speak Gael.
What is ****** is the Pantheons went into the Royal families and those royal families have been
annihilated or just kind of went into hiding. It should be up to Scandinavia, not an outside organization
to determine the new dogma outside of what people know of the Kingdom of Uppsala.
I guess we should thank Charlemange? He should have been a descendant of Odin, to my knowledge.
Accepted Christ to unite his people's, through brutality.
Just how I see it, as far as "universalism views" I see it as a cop out to save argument. Different
kingdoms have different views - and I respect those views.
Cheers.
to brandishing Mjolnir charms or tattoo's. I am more Irish/Scot (Norse) than Scandinavian. I
mean, in the previous age I would still be hanged or treated inequally, but that was then. I still
don't welcome myself to it and want to give these newer organization like Asatru and all more
time.
The Celtic Gods may have been familiar to the Norse, I had one or two dreams and they were
speaking Gaelic, which is an undertaking to learn. One was of a beautiful golden/blonde haired
main in an extravagant robe and the other was Lugh, I guess - black hair and beard. It wasn't
a negative experience, I felt they were implying they speak Gael.
What is ****** is the Pantheons went into the Royal families and those royal families have been
annihilated or just kind of went into hiding. It should be up to Scandinavia, not an outside organization
to determine the new dogma outside of what people know of the Kingdom of Uppsala.
I guess we should thank Charlemange? He should have been a descendant of Odin, to my knowledge.
Accepted Christ to unite his people's, through brutality.
Just how I see it, as far as "universalism views" I see it as a cop out to save argument. Different
kingdoms have different views - and I respect those views.
Cheers.
Sees
Dragonslayer
J.R.R. Tolkien drew heavily from Norse, Germanic and Anglo-Saxon mythology in crafting the Middle Earth legendarium. In fact, he called it Middle Earth after 'Midgard', which means... Middle Earth. He named many of the Dwarves after Dwarves in Norse and Germanic mythology. The language of Rohan is none other than Anglo-Saxon: Old English, the language of Beowulf (which he was the first to translate into Modern English). I'm not a gamer, but I'll go out on a limb and say Skyrims is lifted almost directly from Norse mythology. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be sure it's a duck.
For sure...I wish for more like Tolkien in this world.
For sure...I wish for more like Tolkien in this world.
Well, we do have George R.R. Martin, and we had Terry Brooks, right!?
(note sarcasm so thick you could tap dance on top of it
).
I think it's kept alive (in its non-belligerant forms, anyway) in large part through Stephen McNallen's Folkist views.
J.R.R. Tolkien drew heavily from Norse, Germanic and Anglo-Saxon mythology in crafting the Middle Earth legendarium. In fact, he called it Middle Earth after 'Midgard', which means... Middle Earth. He named many of the Dwarves after Dwarves in Norse and Germanic mythology. The language of Rohan is none other than Anglo-Saxon: Old English, the language of Beowulf (which he was the first to translate into Modern English). I'm not a gamer, but I'll go out on a limb and say Skyrims is lifted almost directly from Norse mythology. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be sure it's a duck.
Skyrim is so Viking that there's even an in-game text called the Poetic Edda (nothing to do with the real one; the name was used for a sort of history-in-verse book).
Except they also had horned helmets. FAIL!!!
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Except they also had horned helmets. FAIL!!!
So I suppose that this is, in the immortal words spoken in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, like the number 5... "Right out!!!"
:run:
In all seriousness... think about how illogical horned helmets would be in battle. Talk about "friendly fire"... or in this case "friendly goring"? Still, it makes me giggle to think of Kaye Ballard and Eve Arden in The Mothers-in-Law doing their Valkyrie scene for the benefit show, and arguing over whether it's "To-yo-to-ho" or "Ho-yo-to-ho" (I'm not helping the cause, am I? :biglaugh.
Still, it makes me giggle to think of Kaye Ballard and Eve Arden in The Mothers-in-Law doing their Valkyrie scene for the benefit show, and arguing over whether it's "To-yo-to-ho" or "Ho-yo-to-ho" (I'm not helping the cause, am I? :biglaugh.
In all seriousness... think about how illogical horned helmets would be in battle. Talk about "friendly fire"... or in this case "friendly goring"?
I don't even know what you're referencing.
I think there's been some evidence that some ceremonial helmets had horns, but that's about it. Horned helmets have been found dating back to the Bronze Age... which is also so long ago that the languages spoken then don't exist anymore (except maybe Basque). There weren't any Vikings at that time.
What I've seen of recreations of how Viking combat worked, they tended to be very close and huddled (I think raiders were described by contemporary writers as being like "cockroaches", or some other swarming bug). Horned helmets would have been absolutely terrible for that style of fighting. (Incidentally, Vikings also didn't fight with swords a whole lot; they mostly fought close-range with spears, axes, and hammers. Swords were generally for upper-classes of warriors who could afford them, since they used VERY high-quality steel, likely of the same make as Damascus swords.)
And as for the (somewhat less common but still sometimes present) winged Viking helmets... THAT'S A GREEK THING! Hermes wears a Winged Helmet! And has Winged Sandals!
Whiterain
Get me off of this planet
In all seriousness... think about how illogical horned helmets would be in battle. Talk about "friendly fire"... or in this case "friendly goring"?
I love it.
I've only got one pagan Idol and it is of Heimdallr.
Horns or birg wings tied onto helmets, like the films the Norsemen or Vikings,
They're hilarious, I love them.
I don't even know what you're referencing.
Yeah, it's that damn Asperger's. I come up with all kinds of off-the-wall references. Plus I'm giving away my age. The Mothers-in-Law was a tv sitcom back in the 60s. The episode was Not So Grand Opera.
Yes, exactly my point. Horned helmets would have put them at a disadvantage.
Did not know that.
But- but- but- Thor has a winged helmet in the movie, and he has one in Adventures in Babysitting!
Now I am like :sad4:
Btw, I always did think the winged sandals were a bit precious.
I love it.
I've only got one pagan Idol and it is of Heimdallr.
Horns or birg wings tied onto helmets, like the films the Norsemen or Vikings,
They're hilarious, I love them.
That statue is da bomb! We likes it.
You want winged helmets? We got winged helmets...
Gondorian guard:
So, you are not required to actually believe in the gods in order to be Asatru? If not, why even practice it? (Wow... that sounded a lot less rude in my head, sorry.
Polytheistic and animistic paths are more about your actions, fostering relationships with other people, the Spirits of the land and animals and the Gods and the impact of those things on the world at large. What you actually believe about it is a personal thing and pluralism is cherished.
Dogma is a facet of the "book and prophet" religions where someone has a "revelation" that is foreign to everyone else and so it needs to be introduced externally to them. Polytheist, animist and shamanic religions are organic and develop naturally from living life in tune with Nature and developing reciprocal relationships with the Sacred Beings and the folk. No one needs to tell you about these things and our ancestors came to their realizations about the Divine quite naturally.
Asatru is a tribal religion and it has more in common with Native North American and African tribal beliefs, along with all the other less structured, organic, oral tribal traditions found the world over.
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Him, too. He's done a lot of damage.
Stephen McNallen and the Asatru Folk Assembly: Racist Heathenry | The Lamp
I feel that pain, brother. ^_^
Ah.
There's a PBS documentary (it's on Netflix Instant Watch) called Secrets of the Viking Sword that talked about it.
But- but- but- Thor has a winged helmet in the movie, and he has one in Adventures in Babysitting!
Now I am like :sad4:
Btw, I always did think the winged sandals were a bit precious.
Well, Odin's also a pretty nice guy in the movie. ^_^
Old post, but I must say that I really like this approach best out of all. If a person, no matter their heritage, is prepared to make a serious commitment to learning the folkways of another people with all respect and integrity, in order to be adopted into that group, I fail to see the problem. If you best conceptualize and experience the Sacred through a specific culture's "eyes" and you really feel called to it, who has the right to deny you?
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By the way, folks, remember this (whether if you are okay with universalism, are universalist, or against it; this is more for lurkers):
Germanic does NOT refer to a tribe or race. Nor does Celtic. (Nor Aryan, for that matter). These are LINGUISTIC terms, referring to the languages certain Tribes spoke. The Iberian Celts, despite speaking Celtic languages, probably (this is admittedly unresearched) had culture more in common with that of the rest the the Western Mediterranean; i.e., Rome and Carthage. There was no real unity or homogeneity among the Northern Tribes, except in some shared languages and a loose pan-culture (including a pan-religion). A Suebi man would probably tear your head off for saying he was the same as a Cherusci man.
...and for the record, the only people who can truly say that they are "Aryan" are Iranians. For crying out loud, it's right there in the bloody name.
Germanic does NOT refer to a tribe or race. Nor does Celtic. (Nor Aryan, for that matter). These are LINGUISTIC terms, referring to the languages certain Tribes spoke. The Iberian Celts, despite speaking Celtic languages, probably (this is admittedly unresearched) had culture more in common with that of the rest the the Western Mediterranean; i.e., Rome and Carthage. There was no real unity or homogeneity among the Northern Tribes, except in some shared languages and a loose pan-culture (including a pan-religion). A Suebi man would probably tear your head off for saying he was the same as a Cherusci man.
...and for the record, the only people who can truly say that they are "Aryan" are Iranians. For crying out loud, it's right there in the bloody name.
I understand a lot of New Zealanders, those of English descent, have begun taking up certain of the Native customs and practices. And the Natives embrace this wholeheartedly.
It's making English-descended New Zealanders truly Native to that land's ancient traditions in a way most Americans probably never could be here.