How do you know God is morally perfect and righteous?

[viole]

U aren't that woman that I discussed before
What happened to u?

It's clear according to infinite regress and causality we can prove the existence of God
So he has no beginning no ending

He is a creator of time and space

Yes, I am that woman. And nothing relevant happened to me. Thanks Thor, pbuh.

I told you before, causality does not exist. And spacetime has no beginning nor end either, by definition.so your arguments are moot.

And even if they were not moot, then I would expect that you have enough evidence of Allah, as opposed to any other God, to make them superflous. So why do you need them if Allah, and not say the great Juju at the bottom of the sea, is so obviously true?

Ciao

- viole

 

[interminable]

Yes, I am that woman. And nothing relevant happened to me. Thanks Thor, pbuh.

I told you before, causality does not exist. And spacetime has no beginning nor end either, by definition.so your arguments are moot.

And even if they were not moot, then I would expect that you have enough evidence of Allah, as opposed to any other God, to make them superflous. So why do you need them if Allah, and not say the great Juju at the bottom of the sea, is so obviously true?

Ciao

- viole

We talked about this issue before remember??

And now that u denied causality I understood that u r yourself

Sorry but without causality we won't reach anywhere so from now I see our argument is in vain

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

How can you blame me though? You act as though I am aware of the glory of God, but reject and blasphemy him anyway. But it's not like I am aware and am convinced of the glory and moral perfection/righteousness of God. I am instead convinced that he is the opposite. So how can you blame me for speaking things of this God that are opposite of the glory and moral righteousness you claim him to have?

If I were convinced God and hell were real and if I were convinced that God is indeed morally righteous, then you would see me bowing and humbling myself before him. You would see me dedicating my life to him not only due to his moral righteousness, but also out of fear of hell. But I am not convinced any of this is the case, so that is why I not only blasphemy God, but also continue to live my hedonistic lifestyle since I would be just wasting my life and my time dedicating my life to a God and fearing hell; things of which might not even be real.

____________________________________________ ____________________________________________ __________________

I will say one last thing here. If someone has lived a sinful life and has never repented and confessed, then on judgment day, God would condemn him/her to hell. He is supposed to be all loving and all just, so when he does so, doesn't his love not only grieve for the individual, but also wishes for him/her to not be tortured in hell forever? If that is the case, then why couldn't he just refuse to send him/her to hell and take him/her to his heavenly kingdom anyway? Is God really that helpless to his all just attribute that he is not allowed to give into his all loving attribute that grieves and wishes for the person not to be sent to hell? He is God and he can do anything. He doesn't have to adhere and be a slave to his all just attribute if he doesn't want to.

 

[viole]

We talked about this issue before remember??

Of course I do. You are the one believing that causality is something metaphysical.

And now that u denied causality I understood that u r yourself

Yes. i am usually myself. My husband might disagree, but he has no saying in that.

Sorry but without causality we won't reach anywhere so from now I see our argument is in vain

Aww. So, please tell me why you believe in Allah, since causality, and all other philosophical arguments, do not say anything about Allah. They just say something, at best, about a not specified cause of the Universe.

I know exactly why you believe in Allah, but I would like to read what you think.

Ciao

- viole

 

[interminable]

Of course I do. You are the one believing that causality is something metaphysical.



Yes. i am usually myself. My husband might disagree, but he has no saying in that.



Aww. So, please tell me why you believe in Allah, since causality, and all other philosophical arguments, do not say anything about Allah. They just say something, at best, about a not specified cause of the Universe.

I know exactly why you believe in Allah, but I would like to read what you think.

Ciao

- viole

These philosophical concepts can prove that first cause is unlimited omniscient omnipotent alive has no beginning no ending isn't material and has all perfections

then we say he must have a purpose of creation so what was his purpose of creation? Does he want from us something?? Does he have some plan or orders????

So he should tell us what his purpose of life and creation is. So he has to convey this to us.

And we see that he did it before by his books and his prophets and miracles

And the last one is Islam that the name of God in this religion is Allah

If God had a partner he will definitely send his prophet too but there is no such thing

Is it enough???

 

[interminable]

How can you blame me though? You act as though I am aware of the glory of God, but reject and blasphemy him anyway. But it's not like I am aware and am convinced of the glory and moral perfection/righteousness of God. I am instead convinced that he is the opposite. So how can you blame me for speaking things of this God that are opposite of the glory and moral righteousness you claim him to have?

If I were convinced God and hell were real and if I were convinced that God is indeed morally righteous, then you would see me bowing and humbling myself before him. You would see me dedicating my life to him not only due to his moral righteousness, but also out of fear of hell. But I am not convinced any of this is the case, so that is why I not only blasphemy God, but also continue to live my hedonistic lifestyle since I would be just wasting my life and my time dedicating my life to a God and fearing hell; things of which might not even be real.

____________________________________________ ____________________________________________ __________________

I will say one last thing here. If someone has lived a sinful life and has never repented and confessed, then on judgment day, God would condemn him/her to hell. He is supposed to be all loving and all just, so when he does so, doesn't his love not only grieve for the individual, but also wishes for him/her to not be tortured in hell forever? If that is the case, then why couldn't he just refuse to send him/her to hell and take him/her to his heavenly kingdom anyway? Is God really that helpless to his all just attribute that he is not allowed to give into his all loving attribute that grieves and wishes for the person not to be sent to hell? He is God and he can do anything. He doesn't have to adhere and be a slave to his all just attribute if he doesn't want to.

To whom u have replied?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

To whom u have replied?

I am replying to those in general who would have scorn towards my blasphemy and disbelief in God. I am hoping people would respond to it because it is something I want people to respond to.

 

[interminable]

I am replying to those in general who would have scorn towards my blasphemy and disbelief in God. I am hoping people would respond to it because it is something I want people to respond to.

Please
U didn't pay attention enough to my previous posts


What would be the purpose of an existent that is omniscient and omnipotent to tell lie to human beings ????

Answer this question using logic

 

[Bird123]

I am referring specifically to the Christian God or any other type of God who condemns you, punishes you, deems sexual activities and hedonism as sinful, and throws you into hell. Sure, God has done some good things for mankind such as having is son sacrificed, he does stay true to his word, and he is the all powerful creator of the universe according to religions such as Christianity.

But it does not follow from there that God has a sane and perfectly holy and righteous sense of morality. You can have an all powerful genius who has an insane and corrupt sense of morality (but does at least some good deeds in the process) or you can have an all powerful genius who has a perfect and righteous sense of morality. I suspect it is fear of God that leads believers to conclude God is somehow the latter.

They do not dare use their rational and skeptical thinking to question God's moral character. But I have. I personally view my moral standards as righteous and the moral standards of God to be insane and corrupt. I don't think it is right to judge a person's way of life as sinful if they are enjoying themselves and not harming/torturing other innocent people.

Many would say that God does not lie. But how do you know that for sure? What if he is a hypocrite? One of his commands is "Thou shalt not kill," but here he commands murder. So what if he demands moral perfection from us when he is the morally imperfect and corrupt one? He could be lying about his sense of morality being perfect and righteous when, in reality, it is my own sense of morality that is righteous.

I am a hedonist, but don't harm and torture others. I am a kind person and I would never throw someone in hell to be tortured forever. It does not matter even if their deeds deserved such a punishment, my respect and love for the person would prevent me from doing that. I would give them a harsh punishment, but I would never condemn them to eternal torture in hell. Even if I committed the ultimate act of love such as how Jesus was sacrificed, I would still not send anyone to hell even if they were people who rejected Jesus, did not accept him, and did not live a life of obedience to God.

It could be the situation that God knows that my hedonistic way of living is morally righteous since he is an all knowing God, but condemns it since it does not adhere to his personal moral standards. How do you truly know that God is morally righteous and is truly all loving and all just?

Lastly, I agree with the famous skeptics with their objections to God's moral character such those made by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, Sean Carrol, Steven Novella, etc. I personally think the moral standard that both I and those famous skeptics I share should be implemented as the moral standard of the Christian God since I agree with the harsh criticisms and objects that these skeptics give against the moral character of this Christian God. This would also apply to other gods as well. If this were to be set as the moral standard of any god, then that god would have a perfect and righteous sense of morality.

The way I see it is: Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God which is a good thing. On the other hand, I find religions have more of Mankind in them than they have of God. Example is your morality issue. Can God really be moral frying His kids for eternity without the possibility of redemption for anything they have done? In truth, if God even created Hell knowing anyone would actually go there, that would make God a Monster!!

This all leaves us with two choices. Either God is a Monster or religion has it all wrong. That is the problem with beliefs. They are not always true and they can easily lead one away from the real truth.

 

[interminable]

The way I see it is: Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God which is a good thing. On the other hand, I find religions have more of Mankind in them than they have of God. Example is your morality issue. Can God really be moral frying His kids for eternity without the possibility of redemption for anything they have done? In truth, if God even created Hell knowing anyone would actually go there, that would make God a Monster!!

This all leaves us with two choices. Either God is a Monster or religion has it all wrong. That is the problem with beliefs. They are not always true and they can easily lead one away from the real truth.

Obey his orders u won't go there

 

[habiru]

The way I see it is: Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God which is a good thing. On the other hand, I find religions have more of Mankind in them than they have of God. Example is your morality issue. Can God really be moral frying His kids for eternity without the possibility of redemption for anything they have done? In truth, if God even created Hell knowing anyone would actually go there, that would make God a Monster!!

This all leaves us with two choices. Either God is a Monster or religion has it all wrong. That is the problem with beliefs. They are not always true and they can easily lead one away from the real truth.

If a child was raised from birth by a pimp. That child will think that having someone to prostitute for money is okay, that it will be very hard to recondition that child. When we listens and obey evil thoughts since we were a children, those thoughts becomes normal. It is because we were raised by it from birth. God can only try to recondition those that has been affected for over half of their life, those that wants treatment. But it is a long process since He cannot cross the line by taking away our free-will to choose what our heart desires. But it is hard to recondition those that loves evil, There's no way that they can show repentance,, if they love evil. They are welcome to go through the purification process, but it is up to them if they want to become clean.


Proverbs 22:6 Start children off on the way they should go,
and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Matthew 13:15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!”

Matthew 23:26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1 Samuel 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

 

[Bird123]

Obey his orders u won't go there

No one will go there because it does not exist except in the minds of mankind.

 

[Bird123]

If a child was raised from birth by a pimp. That child will think that having someone to prostitute for money is okay, that it will be very hard to recondition that child. When we listens and obey evil thoughts since we were a children, those thoughts becomes normal. It is because we were raised by it from birth. God can only try to recondition those that has been affected for over half of their life, those that wants treatment. But it is a long process since He cannot cross the line by taking away our free-will to choose what our heart desires. But it is hard to recondition those that loves evil, There's no way that they can show repentance,, if they love evil. They are welcome to go through the purification process, but it is up to them if they want to become clean.


Proverbs 22:6 Start children off on the way they should go,
and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Matthew 13:15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!”

Matthew 23:26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1 Samuel 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

Excuses,Excuses,Excuses!!! Are these really problems that can not be solved by great intelligence?? Can God really be that lacking? If we look around at this world, isn't God's educational process slowing teaching people, advancing them forward?

Sure, people are greatly influenced by how they are raised. On the other hand, people do Think,Learn,and Grow beyond how we were raised. Can anyone go through life and learn nothing? That's not going to happen.

 

[habiru]

Excuses,Excuses,Excuses!!! Are these really problems that can not be solved by great intelligence?? Can God really be that lacking? If we look around at this world, isn't God's educational process slowing teaching people, advancing them forward?

Sure, people are greatly influenced by how they are raised. On the other hand, people do Think,Learn,and Grow beyond how we were raised. Can anyone go through life and learn nothing? That's not going to happen.

Some will learn how to be more craftier, and while the others will learn that it isn't right. The ones that learns to be more craftier are the ones that loves it. And those are the ones that are unable to learn from their mistakes, that those will be tossed away into place where all the bad seeds are thrown away. Just imagine God cannot kill, that he only can tosses them away with other bad seed. Just imagine being around other bad seeds forever, where there is weeping and gnashing of the teeth.

 

[Bird123]

Some will learn how to be more craftier, and while the others will learn that it isn't right. The ones that learns to be more craftier are the ones that loves it. And those are the ones that are unable to learn from their mistakes, that those will be tossed away into place where all the bad seeds are thrown away. Just imagine God cannot kill, that he only can tosses them away with other bad seed. Just imagine being around other bad seeds forever, where there is weeping and gnashing of the teeth.

The view you have of God seems to be the view of Mankind. Mankind discards or attempts to destroy that which is not easily fixed. Look around at this world and the universe. Is not God capable of fixing every single one of His children?? I can see how this can be done within the realm of free will. In fact, free will is a crucial part of learning. If I can see this, can't God?

Mankind loves to control. Mankind uses the concept of Hell counting on fear and intimidation to alter people's actions. Is this really God?? How could God with so much Intelligence come up so Lacking??

I choose to base my thinking on the current evidence around me rather than the Beliefs of Mankind.

As I look at the world along with the universe around me, I have to belief God is much more Intelligent and at a Higher Level than to stoop to the use of fear and intimidation or to discard and fry His children.

That is how I see it.

 

[habiru]

The view you have of God seems to be the view of Mankind. Mankind discards or attempts to destroy that which is not easily fixed. Look around at this world and the universe. Is not God capable of fixing every single one of His children?? I can see how this can be done within the realm of free will. In fact, free will is a crucial part of learning. If I can see this, can't God?

Mankind loves to control. Mankind uses the concept of Hell counting on fear and intimidation to alter people's actions. Is this really God?? How could God with so much Intelligence come up so Lacking??

I choose to base my thinking on the current evidence around me rather than the Beliefs of Mankind.

As I look at the world along with the universe around me, I have to belief God is much more Intelligent and at a Higher Level than to stoop to the use of fear and intimidation or to discard and fry His children.

That is how I see it.

Not if they are free-will beings that doesn't want to be fix, that loves evil. God doesn't trespass. Unless we calls on His name for help, and so that will give Him permission to help. And once He get started, there is no way to stop Him. Like Martin Luther the one whom translated the original texts into Germany so that the people can read it for themselves. He wasn't a follower in the beginning. But once he was trapped in a thunder storm, fearing for his life, that he pleaded to God for help. He told God that if He can get him out of this storm, that he will serve Him.

And it is not a belief that mankind has created. The reason it is not/ If you read the scriptures, that man will only write down what they desires. Especially they doesn't like the part about giving up their riches to the poor, and then follow Him. We will all walk away from that verse. That verse will detour a lot of followers from it. Even what it has done to a lot of preachers to try to change it around, into something they wants to hear.

Jonah 2 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God. He said: “In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help, and you listened to my cry. You hurled me into the depths, into the very heart of the seas, and the currents swirled about me; all your waves and breakers swept over me. ...

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

 

[Bird123]

Not if they are free-will beings that doesn't want to be fix, that loves evil. God doesn't trespass. Unless we calls on His name for help, and so that will give Him permission to help. And once He get started, there is no way to stop Him. Like Martin Luther the one whom translated the original texts into Germany so that the people can read it for themselves. He wasn't a follower in the beginning. But once he was trapped in a thunder storm, fearing for his life, that he pleaded to God for help. He told God that if He can get him out of this storm, that he will serve Him.

And it is not a belief that mankind has created. The reason it is not/ If you read the scriptures, that man will only write down what they desires. Especially they doesn't like the part about giving up their riches to the poor, and then follow Him. We will all walk away from that verse. That verse will detour a lot of followers from it. Even what it has done to a lot of preachers to try to change it around, into something they wants to hear.

Jonah 2 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God. He said: “In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help, and you listened to my cry. You hurled me into the depths, into the very heart of the seas, and the currents swirled about me; all your waves and breakers swept over me. ...

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

The way I see it God does exist, however God is not what your stories describe. I am one who must have Truth rather than stories used to manipulate my actions.

Do you even hear yourself? You said we must give God permission to help. Seems like you a bit controlling. You said God does not trespass. How can God trespass? You said God is helpless under the realm of free will. That saleslady in the store was not helpless to get me to buy her cookware when my free will said I wouldn't. I ended up buying the cookware.

Seems you are placing limits on God, further you are attempting to control God as well as others just to make your stories fit. I don't buy it. The stories do not add up. Any Being capable of creating it all would never have a haphazard system as you describe. Since all the physics of the world add up completely, so must everything else about God. I see that God's real system does add up completely unlike blind stories or beliefs.

I'll leave you with something to think about. God is not One who exists just to save people from their problems. God's creation of your challenges and problems are there for good reason. Perhaps solving them is better than being saved from them.

 

[habiru]

The way I see it God does exist, however God is not what your stories describe. I am one who must have Truth rather than stories used to manipulate my actions.

Do you even hear yourself? You said we must give God permission to help. Seems like you a bit controlling. You said God does not trespass. How can God trespass? You said God is helpless under the realm of free will. That saleslady in the store was not helpless to get me to buy her cookware when my free will said I wouldn't. I ended up buying the cookware.

Seems you are placing limits on God, further you are attempting to control God as well as others just to make your stories fit. I don't buy it. The stories do not add up. Any Being capable of creating it all would never have a haphazard system as you describe. Since all the physics of the world add up completely, so must everything else about God. I see that God's real system does add up completely unlike blind stories or beliefs.

I'll leave you with something to think about. God is not One who exists just to save people from their problems. God's creation of your challenges and problems are there for good reason. Perhaps solving them is better than being saved from them.

God is not a hypocrite. He doesn't break none of His rules.

John 16:24 Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

John 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I would view a morally righteous and all loving/all just God as a democracy that serves the people and supports the freedom and rights of the individual. It would be the exact opposite of who God is who is a being that only enslaves our freedom, condemns our lives as sinful, and has us sent to hell to be tortured forever as punishment.

 

[Bird123]

God is not a hypocrite. He doesn't break none of His rules.

John 16:24 Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

John 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Why do you base God's rules on books written by mankind? The way I see it God does not restrict His actions by rules. Intelligence rules the day.

Would you say evil is an intelligent thing? Would you say hate is an intelligent thing? When one chooses hate or evil, won't people just return it back to you? With that in mind, isn't love and kindness the best, most intelligent choice?

So many religions want to judge, hate and condemn others. Aren't these lower levels as well?

The way I see it is that it's all Math. If you choose anything but Unconditional Love, it's only because you lack the knowledge and intelligence to make the best choice.

What would the solution be?? The way I see it is that God who has high intelligence solves the problem by returning our actions and choices back to us so that we might understand what choices we are really making. In time, everyone learns what are the best choices. In addition, it would teach everyone to Love Unconditionally. After all, that is what everyone wants to return to them. Further, for those students who learn slow,God supplies an eternity of time along with an infinite number of lives in which to learn.

Would not these actions put God at a Higher Level than to hate,condemn, and fry children for making the wrong choices?

The way I see it is that since all holy books were written by mankind, they carry all the flaws in mankind which include, Blame, Hate,Greed,Judging,Condemning,Controlling,Coercing,Intimidating, Etc. that true intelligence will over come. If one really wants to be like God, doesn't one have to stop blindly following and reach for the Higher Levels and True Intelligence??

Finally, I see a point where one will reach a level of intelligence where rules and laws are not needed. After all, when one fully understands all sides, the bad choices are no longer a viable choice at all.

With all this in Mind, God never has to judge, hate, worry, condemn or even get upset. All God has to do is Teach. Further, by simply returning our actions back to us, we all will acquire Great wisdom. We get to keep the kids too!!