How Do You Know What Is Evil?

[Scott1]

Lilithu you obviously didnt understand my post.

Add me to that list....

i have a social responsibility to not be detrimental to the group i am in.

Why?

that means i should not commit negative acts against those people.

Give an example of a negative act and please explain why the wants and needs of these other people override your freedom.

i have no moral responsibilities beyond those that i have made up.

Please give an example of one of your "moral responsibilities" and please explain why you believe it to be "moral".

my social responsibilities are those made up by others. sometimes they are the same, but where they differ, i have to chose which i feel is more important.

Do you believe that society would be better off if we all acted this way?

nothing controls what i feel except me, i make the decisions on what i feel is right and wrong with my idea of morality.

Same question please.

Peace,
Scott

 

[drekmed]

to lilithu and scott1
i was stating how i perceive things. you obviously perceive them differently.

i feel that evil is just an idea, it changes from person to person, there is no absolute evil state of things.
yes, my view is complicated, and it is sometimes difficult for me to differentiate. but i will try to give a very simple example. first, social responsibility taking precedent, second moral responsibility taking precedent
first one is easy, a social responsibility is driving the speed limit. morally i feel there is nothing wrong with speeding, but still, i will drive the speed limit because that is the standard set for me. simple, easy to distinguish, not a tough decision at all.

secondly, and this is more complicated and somewhat hypothetical, i am in a combat situation, heavy combat, we capture someone and i am put in charge of the interrogation, during questioning he states that he has placed a large explosive device somewhere in the vicinity of a large group of innocent people set to go off in 1 hour. i then have 2 options, torture or continue questioning without inflicting pain. social responsibility would demand i use any and all means necessary, to include torture, to extract the information necessary to stop the bomb from going off in order to save the most lives, and so would some people's moral responsibility. however i cannot under any circumstance morally justify me using torture or telling someone to torture under this circumstance, not even to save many lives. i would not torture the individual.
i am not saying that torture is evil, in some cases it may even be warranted for someone else to do. in this situation i wouldn't have any problem with someone else torturing the person, i just cannot be a part of it.
if, however, a family member, or close friend, of mine might be included in the blast area, well, i would have no moral problem being the instrument of severe pain.

i do not see morality as black and white. i see it in many shades of gray. as an example to this, for anyone that has watched Batman Begins, while batman is fighting raz al goul(sp) on the train, at the very end of the fight, raz says "Have you finally learned to do what is necessary?" to which batman replies "I won't kill you....but i don't have to save you." this sums up my view fairly well.

my morality is very subjective. to me, 1 million strangers are no more important than 1 stranger. however, 1 friend/family member is more important than 1 million strangers.

i can't really explain this any better. its just how i feel right now, of course, i may feel differently tomorrow.

Drekmed

 

[afdragon2006]

My answer is simple anything that is not of God is evil. now I'm not saying that for example telivision is evil. when I say not of God I mean things that the bible speaks against.

 

[Ashley-Yin]

evil is:
morally wrong
causes harm
and is offensive

 

[logician]

There is nothing inherently "evil", homo sapien's cultures define what is considered wrongdoing by passing laws and regulations. Beyond that, nothing is enforceable.

 

[Heneni]

Hello everyone


Whatever you think is wrong, is wrong for YOU. You are the one who defines what 'evil' is for you.

If I think that there is something wrong with incest and i find it 'evil' then so it is, to me.

By setting myself up against incest...i basically send out the message I AM AGAINST INCEST to my brain which then takes up the pen of my subconsious memory and writes this down as a NO NO in there. This has now become a law that governs other descisions and choices that I make, since it is part of my thinking process or thinking 'law' and has settled in my heart.

If I then act against the law which I myself has set up, I have sinned against my own person, my own body first, and am therefore guilty as charged by my own law.

I think depression is a sign that you have gone against your beliefs in some way.

It is therefore, a natural thing for people to check what other people consider to be evil and what they dont, since the underlying reasons that supports those beliefs, could come back and be the reason it bites me them in the buttocks.

If someone thinks abortion is OK, and I dont, I consider it murder, then I know for sure that the other person, will not hesititate to act in a way that will be offensive to me. So even thought there could be this temporary acceptance in the sense that we say...whatever you believe is Ok, I accept your right to be different and have different thoughts than i do, you can be sure you wont let your guard down to someone you think is capable of murdering thoughts. And this guard is automatically set up the moment you come to realise the other person is OK with abortion, when you are not.

This means you have set up in your own mind abortion as evil and any other person that does not agree with it, is automatically 'evil' as well, for the reasons I have explained above. Since they can be a potential threat to you as a human.

These things happen very fast in our conscious and subconcious minds. My mind is the policemen of the law in my heart and my body will somehow show the effects of violating this law. Sickeness, depression, feelings of unhappiness, stuff like that.

For a christian, the law of god is written in their hearts and subconsious, so when they go against this law, the mind automatically makes us aware of this, and sometimes the body suffers as a result of our sin.

If you are not a christian, you are the one that writes your own 'law' as to what is good and what is evil. And your life and body and circumstances and everything around you works together to make you have a happy life if you obey those laws, and you will have a sad life if you dont.

The problem is that most humans are born rebels, and so ever thought some people know that adultery is wrong, and they feel it wrong, not because anyone has said it is, but really because they can feel the mind going against the law of the heart, they still go ahead and do it still. If the king violates his own laws then what is left of his kingdom? Nothing really, which is the problem of choosing to be your own master.

As a human race we are faced with the dillema that you might think something is evil that I dont and you wont let me be.......

Well then...proves my point that some are born rebels but without a cause.

Love
Heneni

 

[lilithu]

Whatever you think is wrong, is wrong for YOU. You are the one who defines what 'evil' is for you.

If I think that there is something wrong with incest and i find it 'evil' then so it is, to me.

:cover: By your logic, if you don't think there is something wrong with incest then there is nothing wrong with incest. By your logic, there is nothing wrong with what the guy in Austria did to his daughter and children/grandchildren because he didn't think it was wrong.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. Some things are just wrong, period.

 

[Heneni]

Hi lilithu

Perhaps you are not following my logic?

There is something wrong with what that man did. Because you have decided it is evil.

He did it because he did not think it was evil to him. To him those that think there is something wrong with it is wrong.

Whatever you think is evil to you is evil to YOU.

Heneni

 

[Tau]

The only Evil that matters relates to how you treat other beings, the more selfish you are the more detremental to society and to the natural world you become.

Homosexuality is not detremental to human society, and thus is not Evil.
Incest is detremental to the physcial health of a society and so is Evil.


In my view if it opposes the philosophy of the greater good then it is Evil.

 

[lilithu]

Hi lilithu

Perhaps you are not following my logic?

There is something wrong with what that man did. Because you have decided it is evil.

He did it because he did not think it was evil to him. To him those that think there is something wrong with it is wrong.

Whatever you think is evil to you is evil to YOU.

Heneni

I didn't follow your logic because there is no logic to follow. What that man did to his daughter and family is wrong because he hurt them physically, emotionally, and socially in ways both obvious and unimaginable. It has nothing to do with whether I exist to pass judgment in my mind. It was wrong, period.

 

[Heneni]

PS: I think what he did was wrong too. But I think it is wrong because my god thinks it is wrong. For people that dont you could say subscribe to what god thinks is right and wrong, they are a law unto themselves.

A justice system is set up, by the people for the people. The laws of the country therefore should be laws that people in general feel is what is right.

The justice system could be thinking something is wrong, when it is right. But simply because the majority of people find it OK, it is right.

When goverments pass laws that were not first 'run by' the population, the population is less likely to adhere to the law, since that law is not within their frame of reference of what they would consider to be wrong, or right.

Love
Heneni

 

[tigrers99]

Pah made a good point in this post. How do we know who is right and who is wrong?

I classify evil as intentional harm and wrong doing both mental and physical.

In another thread I said that things such as incest and homosexuality were not evil.
While I wouldn't participate in these activities, I certainley don't consider them "evil"
I was then essentially told I was evil and so was my "spirit." Even though thinking otherwise went against my spirit, moral fiber, concious, whatever you want to call it.

Am I wrong?

My question is how would you guys gauge evil? How would you measure evil? Would you base evil on what religious texts defines as evil? Would you use your feelings and intuition? Or would you use something different? Would you ever consider love and compassion evil? Is evil relative to the individual?

I'm interested to hear from theists and non-theists

It is very difficult for the people to come to a consensus as to what things are morally evil who believe they have an objective moral standard, and impossible for people to come to a consensus without one.

What is evident world-wide is that there is a consensus of a general morality. That this moral awareness comes from a creator or from the teaching of our caretakers for 'survival', has been debated for years.

The New Testament has been said to teach the highest form of morality and reveal the most well hidden things within the person. It 'discerns the thoughts and intentions' within the person so that he/she understands what is morally evil and what is morally good. So I would say that 'the proof is in the pudding' so to speak. Even though there are some questions concerning a number of things such as the wrong word for homosexual? used in 1Cor.6:9 and 1Tim.1:10, and the claim that the group of Rom.1:21-32 applied to gays from the beginning of humanity clear up till today, being taught by fundamentalist churches, the New testament still retains the power to give us the best moral sight,

 

[uss_bigd]

Pah made a good point in this post. How do we know who is right and who is wrong?

I classify evil as intentional harm and wrong doing both mental and physical.

In another thread I said that things such as incest and homosexuality were not evil.
While I wouldn't participate in these activities, I certainley don't consider them "evil"
I was then essentially told I was evil and so was my "spirit." Even though thinking otherwise went against my spirit, moral fiber, concious, whatever you want to call it.

Am I wrong?

My question is how would you guys gauge evil? How would you measure evil? Would you base evil on what religious texts defines as evil? Would you use your feelings and intuition? Or would you use something different? Would you ever consider love and compassion evil? Is evil relative to the individual?

I'm interested to hear from theists and non-theists

Who has the Spirit of God?

1 Cor 2:14

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,fo1r they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

You dont have the spirit of God if:

1. You cannot accept the scripture that i quoted

2.You think what i am doing is just foolishness
3. When you refuse to understand.


Ok, let us find out if you have the spirit of God.


Gal 5:16-17 states:
"If you are guided by the Spirit, you won't obey your selfish desires. The Spirit and your desires are enemies of each other. They are always fighting each other and keeping you from doing what you feel you should."

What selfish desires does this verse refer to? let us read on.


Gal 5:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

The contemporary english Version states these:

"People's desires make them give in to immoral ways, filthy thoughts, and shameful deeds. They worship idols, practice witchcraft, hate others, and are hard to get along with. People become jealous, angry, and selfish. They not only argue and cause trouble, but they are envious. They get drunk, carry on at wild parties, and do other similar evil things as well"


So, it is clear if you have the sprit of God, you will NOT "obey your selfish desires," specifically the ones listed above.

Whose spirit do you have if you obey your selfish desires?



James 3:14-16
But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

gee, if that scares you what should you do?

James 4:7
"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

How do you start submitting yourself to God?

James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

Accept the words written in the bible, for it is the word of God and it can save you.

2 Cor 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.


The Fear of God is the start of cleansing ...

 

[lilithu]

Who has the Spirit of God?

1 Cor 2:14

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,fo1r they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

You dont have the spirit of God if:

1. You cannot accept the things i will write here

Is this a joke? Are you seriously arguing that one doesn't have the Spirit of God if one doesn't agree with you? :areyoucra You are assuming that what you say is of the Spirit.

Anyone can quote scripture saying we should resist evil. The question still remains, "what is evil?"

 

[uss_bigd]

Is this a joke? Are you seriously arguing that one doesn't have the Spirit of God if one doesn't agree with you? :areyoucra You are assuming that what you say is of the Spirit.

Anyone can quote scripture saying we should resist evil. The question still remains, "what is evil?"

i merely quoted verses sir/ma'm: if you read the whole post you will understand why sir/ma'm.

 

[Darkness]

To me, Good and Evil are synonymous with benevolence and malevolence, respectfully. Right and Wrong correspond to what a person approves of and disapproves of. As an example, if I kill someone who threatened my family and friends, that is still an evil/malicious act, but the hatred/evil was right/justified in my eyes.

 

[lilithu]

i merely quoted verses sir/ma'm: if you read the whole post you will understand why sir/ma'm.

I read your whole post and yeah I understand why; it's because you think that your view of good and evil is of the Spirit.

As I said, anyone can quote scripture telling us to avoid evil. The point of dispute is in the interpretation "what is evil?" Hence, the point of this thread.

 

[uss_bigd]

I read your whole post and yeah I understand why; it's because you think that your view of good and evil is of the Spirit.

As I said, anyone can quote scripture telling us to avoid evil. The point of dispute is in the interpretation "what is evil?" Hence, the point of this thread.

I am sorry, it was not I that wrote the verses i quoted. in this verse below, this is what the apostle Paul think:

Gal 5:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

As I said, anyone can quote scripture telling us to avoid evil. The point of dispute is in the interpretation "what is evil?" Hence, the point of this thread.

how many ways can we interpret things like, Adultery and fornication?
how about idolatry and murders?
drunkeness?

how many ways can we interpret these things quoted from Paul's epistle to the Galatians?

 

[lilithu]

how many ways can we interpret things like, Adultery and fornication?

Adultery, I'll give you. But what is considered to be fornication depends on who is allowed to get married.

how about idolatry

Also up to interpretation. For example, some Christians might consider it idolatry to worship Krishna. I otoh, believe that worshiping Krishna is just another way to worship God. But I do think that greed is idolatry, worshiping Mamon before God.

and murders?

Some people consider abortion to be murder. Others do not. Some people consider the death penalty to be murder. Others do not. Some people consider war to be murder. Others do not.

drunkeness?

How do you define drunkenness? No drinking at all? 0.1% blood alcohol level?

how many ways can we interpret these things quoted from Paul's epistle to the Galatians?

Let me count the ways...

 

[lunamoth]

I'm not sure 'evil' can be defined, although it has meaning.

This question makes me wonder, do we ever feel compelled to explain or justify when we do something we think is 'good?'