How Do You Know What Is Evil?

[uss_bigd]

Adultery, I'll give you. But what is considered to be fornication depends on who is allowed to get married.

you make things complicated for your self.

Also up to interpretation. For example, some Christians might consider it idolatry to worship Krishna. I otoh, believe that worshiping Krishna is just another way to worship God. But I do think that greed is idolatry, worshiping Mamon before God.

do you know how idolatry is used in the bible?


Some people consider abortion to be murder. Others do not. Some people consider the death penalty to be murder. Others do not. Some people consider war to be murder. Others do not.

gee, you make things complicated to yourself, murder is murder.


How do you define drunkenness? No drinking at all? 0.1% blood alcohol level?

who gets drunk with 0.1% alcohol?


Let me count the ways...

I'll 'wait

replies in pink

 

[lilithu]

replies in pink

Oh, I forgot. Some people consider removing life support from brain-dead patients to be murder. Others do not.

It's only "simple" when you refuse to recognize other people's perspectives.

 

[uss_bigd]

Oh, I forgot. Some people consider removing life support from brain-dead patients to be murder. Others do not.

It's only "simple" when you refuse to recognize other people's perspectives.

if you put artificial life support system on a patient is he naturally alive?

What will nature tell you?

do you mean that during the time before life support systems were invented people committed murder?

what does nature tell us?

 

[lilithu]

if you put artificial life support system on a patient is he naturally alive?

What will nature tell you?

do you mean that during the time before life support systems were invented people committed murder?

what does nature tell us?

Are you seriously arguing ethics based on nature? You're too funny. Marriage is not "natural." Yet you are confidant that "fornication" is wrong.

What does nature tell us indeed.

 

[uss_bigd]

Are you seriously arguing ethics based on nature? You're too funny. Marriage is not "natural." Yet you are confidant that "fornication" is wrong.

What does nature tell us indeed.

Was pre-marital sex always the norm?

are you familiar with marriage in the biblical context?

 

[lilithu]

Was pre-marital sex always the norm?

Before the concept of marriage was invented that question wouldn't even make sense.

are you familiar with marriage in the biblical context?

Dude, you can't switch back and forth between appealing to the authority of the bible and appealing to the authority of "nature" depending on which one suits your needs at the moment. Well, obviously you can but I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who keeps changing the parameters.

 

[kai]

Evil is a broad term used to indicate a negative moral or ethical judgment, often used to describe intentional acts that are cruel, unjust, or selfish. Evil is usually contrasted with good, which describes intentional acts that are kind, just, or unselfish.


In many cultures, evil is used to describe acts or thoughts which are contrary to some particular religion. In some religions, evil is an active force, often personified as an entity such as Satan or Ahriman

i think that sums it up for me ,the second part just illustrates ancient mans need to personify everything and we still have the legacy of that.

 

[uss_bigd]

Before the concept of marriage was invented that question wouldn't even make sense.

Just answer the question, was pre marital sex always the norm?

Dude, you can't switch back and forth between appealing to the authority of the bible and appealing to the authority of "nature" depending on which one suits your needs at the moment. Well, obviously you can but I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who keeps changing the parameters.

The bibilical context of marriage is that when two people agree to be with together and start having sex they are married biblically speaking.

and nature will remind us that pre marital sex was not always the norm. which makes nature consistent with the biblical context of what marriage is.

 

[lilithu]

Just answer the question, was pre marital sex always the norm?

I did answer the question. Before the concept of marriage was invented there was not such thing as premarital sex. Or, to put it another way, ALL sex was premarital sex. Naturally speaking, it's the marital sex that's "abnormal."

The bibilical context of marriage is that when two people agree to be with together and start having sex they are married biblically speaking.

Oh, glad to see the bibilical context of marriage has no problem with same-sex marriages. :rainbow1:

and nature will remind us that pre marital sex was not always the norm. which makes nature consistent with the biblical context of what marriage is.

You really are too funny. See above.

 

[uss_bigd]

I did answer the question. Before the concept of marriage was invented there was not such thing as premarital sex. Or, to put it another way, ALL sex was premarital sex. Naturally speaking, it's the marital sex that's "abnormal."

wrong, in the past especially the old testament you must be a virgin until marriage, or you will be stoned to death.

Oh, glad to see the bibilical context of marriage has no problem with same-sex marriages. :rainbow1:

were same sex marraiges always accepted? or was a taboo in the past? so what was natural in the past?

You really are too funny. See above.

Glad to be of your amusement!

 

[Dunemeister]

Pah made a good point in this post. How do we know who is right and who is wrong?

I classify evil as intentional harm and wrong doing both mental and physical.

In another thread I said that things such as incest and homosexuality were not evil.
While I wouldn't participate in these activities, I certainley don't consider them "evil"
I was then essentially told I was evil and so was my "spirit." Even though thinking otherwise went against my spirit, moral fiber, concious, whatever you want to call it.

Am I wrong?

My question is how would you guys gauge evil? How would you measure evil? Would you base evil on what religious texts defines as evil? Would you use your feelings and intuition? Or would you use something different? Would you ever consider love and compassion evil? Is evil relative to the individual?

I'm interested to hear from theists and non-theists

I think that ethics is similar to aesthetics. Making a judgment about what is right or wrong is similar to making a judgment about what is beautiful or ugly. Now, there is wide agreement about what is ugly and what is beautiful. And there's large areas of disagreement. Part of the reason for disagreement is that some (most? almost all?) people have an untutored sense of beauty. One has to learn to appreciate art. You need to learn from a master.

It's the same with ethics. We can thrash about with our own untutored perceptions of right and wrong or we can submit our ethical thinking to a tutor who can guide us in the art of making moral judgments.

 

[Willamena]

There's a tutored sense of beauty?

 

[lilithu]

I think that ethics is similar to aesthetics. Making a judgment about what is right or wrong is similar to making a judgment about what is beautiful or ugly. Now, there is wide agreement about what is ugly and what is beautiful. And there's large areas of disagreement.

Agreed on both counts.

Part of the reason for disagreement is that some (most? almost all?) people have an untutored sense of beauty. One has to learn to appreciate art.

The question is whether the "tutored" sense of beauty is actually objectively better than the untutored sense of beauty. Or whether it is simply one taste arbitrarily elevated above others by those in power.

You need to learn from a master.

There are certain masters whom I love and others not so much. The same thing with folk (untrained) art.

 

[lilithu]

wrong, in the past especially the old testament you must be a virgin until marriage, or you will be stoned to death.

And what about before the Jewish scriptures were written?

were same sex marraiges always accepted? or was a taboo in the past? so what was natural in the past?

Again, you are simply taking the position that you hold and calling it "natural" and then using the label "natural" to justify the position that you hold. Circular reasoning.

What is "natural" is not defined by what is socially accepted. If it occurs in nature, then it is natural.

 

[crystalonyx]

The constructs of what is "evil" or a sin are largely culturally driven, and are not "set in stone" so to speak. It's man's laws that must be obeyed, or there will be consequences.

 

[Charity]

I believe that we are born with some type of warning system, it's called our conscience. I think we know whether something is good, bad (evil). The real evil is when we know it's bad but we do it anyway.

 

[uss_bigd]

And what about before the Jewish scriptures were written?

I dunno, what information do you have and what is your source?

What is "natural" is not defined by what is socially accepted. If it occurs in nature, then it is natural.

so socially accepted idealogies are planned? and not a result of how nature takes it course?

 

[uss_bigd]

Again, you are simply taking the position that you hold and calling it "natural" and then using the label "natural" to justify the position that you hold. Circular reasoning.

ok, so same sex marriages were planned? and not a result of nature taking its course?

or isn't as a matter of fact a deviation for what is natural. Phisiologicall speaking

 

[lilithu]

I dunno, what information do you have and what is your source?

Archeology, biology, geology,... science.

so socially accepted idealogies are planned? and not a result of how nature takes it course?

By that argument EVERYTHING is natural. Fine with me.

ok, so same sex marriages were planned? and not a result of nature taking its course?

or isn't as a matter of fact a deviation for what is natural. Phisiologicall speaking

If it occurs in nature it's natural. I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. Marriage isn't "natural," period, but same sex sex is.

What you're actually arguing is that it's not the norm. So what? Blonde hair isn't the norm either and yet people don't consider that to be "evil."

 

[logician]

I believe that we are born with some type of warning system, it's called our conscience. I think we know whether something is good, bad (evil). The real evil is when we know it's bad but we do it anyway.

There are some people that have little "conscience", or a warped sense of what is right and wrong, (we'll exclude the mentally handicapped here). Should their conscience be their guide?