paarsurrey
Veteran Member
It is. That is the fruit of the peaceful dialogue and this forum has played a positive role into it.
Regards
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It is. That is the fruit of the peaceful dialogue and this forum has played a positive role into it.
Regards
Muffled
Jesus in me
I beleive The Holy Spirit in me will testify whether it is The Holy Spirit speaking in someone else or not.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You are simply mistaken.
There is no Holy Spirit in you any different from there is in a Zoroastrian or a Hindu or in a Buddhist etc.
Regards
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the facts do not support your thinking. The Holy Spirit was only promised to Christians.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Christians don't follow Jesus' teachings/commandments, they follow Paul, so they don't have any holy spirit.
Regards
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is a non-sequitur.
I believe Jesus taught the Paraclete (Holy Spirit) would be given. I certainly follow the teaching of Jesus on that.
I believe Paul had the Holy Spirit and his writing reflects that.
Do you mean that it is conceivable that the Holy Spirit is somehow less accessible to non-Christians?
It never occurred to me before that someone might hold such a belief. I wonder what you understand the Holy Spirit to be.
It might make sense to me if it is some sort of supernatural intervention, but only at the expense of the credibility of Christianity itself.
Then those of us inherently without that aren't bound by its laws & rules, right? That's the only thing that'd make sense.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe by accessing the Holy Spirit the person becomes a Christian.
I believe the Greek word is paraclete. It is translated many ways. I believe it means God in me, controlling my mind and my actions.
I believe what lacks credibility to you has a great deal of credibility for me.
Does that mean that there are boatloads of unofficial Christians holding nominally, even explicitly non-Christian beliefs, or rather that the Holy Spirit is a Christian exclusivity? Or maybe you do you propose a third option which I am not seeing right now?
In that case, it makes no sense whatsoever that it would be a Christian exclusivity while also being religiously significant.
I am trying to be gentle, but I can be easily convinced to agree.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I can only give examples of this. There aere reports of Muslims receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior. I believe many of thier beliefs will still be Islamic unless someone comes along and tries to brainwash them with some kind of "orthodox" Chrisitanity. Usually the church will officially recognize such people if they come forth with a testimony.
Also there are reports of South American indian Christians who sometimes retain indain beliefs. The church pooh poohs this as syncretism but still they are recognized as Christians. However since they are usually Roman Catholics one might view the Christianity as more cultural than real.
I believe this to be true.
I believe I don't know what you mean by this since Christian exclusivity is relgiously significant.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the laws and rules are for those who are not Christian. Christians live by faith.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I would say that both are true, depending on where you are in the issue. I definitely do my best on this forum and in my personal life to protect both groups alike. Both Theists and Atheists are often out of line with civility and reason.
Awkward Fingers
Omphaloskeptic
So.. If there is someone YOU feel is also speaking with the holy spirit, then I assume they can also tell others, by their holy spirit?
Oh.. and is that more accurate than chance? Just curious.
But isn't all religion based on myth? You say that myth is not based on fact or truth and then say 'truthful religion". The two statement seem, IMO, to contradict each other.
How so? What makes something more distinguishable from one myth to another? Or any one myth from another?
I don't mean this question to be rude, but is not your ascertain here somewhat judgmental? You say you are Christian and I'm not. Would you be able to 'know' that I know God any better or worse than you do? And even then, isn't it a judgmental POV to assume someone holds you beliefs, or doesn't?
Muffled said: I believe the facts do not support your thinking. The Holy Spirit was only promised to Christians.
And Paarsurrey said: Christians don't follow Jesus' teachings/commandments, they follow Paul, so they don't have any holy spirit.
Regards
Are not both of these statements judgmental? How do you, Parrsurrey, know that Christians are not following what you call the "Holy Spirit"? And how do you, Muffled, know that this "Holy Spirit" is ONLY promised to Christians? Both statements, no offense to either of us, but both statements seem to me to be incredibly myopic and closed minded.
And Paarsurrey said: Christians don't follow Jesus' teachings/commandments, they follow Paul, so they don't have any holy spirit.
Regards
Are not both of these statements judgmental? How do you, Parrsurrey, know that Christians are not following what you call the "Holy Spirit"? And how do you, Muffled, know that this "Holy Spirit" is ONLY promised to Christians? Both statements, no offense to either of us, but both statements seem to me to be incredibly myopic and closed minded.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
This is what Jesus said:
15 “If you love me, you will obey my commandments.16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper who will be with you forever.17 That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn’t see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you.
John 14
Regards
OK but that doesn't explain how YOU interpret this and what your opinion of it is so that you made that statement. That was what I was getting at.