How do you see it?

[paarsurrey]

OK but that doesn't explain how YOU interpret this and what your opinion of it is so that you made that statement. That was what I was getting at.

It is a known reality that the present Christianity was founded by Paul, it is a misnomer, it has got nothing to do with Jesus. The Quote of John 14:15-17 makes it conditional, the Christians will know the Spirit of Truth if they follow Jesus.

Regards

 

[gnostic]

I don't have any reason to think that any ancient implausible story contains divine truth. If there were a divine being who wanted to communicate with us He could do better than that.
Tom

Yes, he could. He could have called Moses or Muhammad on their mobiles...and perhaps do some selfies of himself.

 

[aoji]

In secular matters supporting Atheists against irrational and mythical thoughts.

Wouldn't that then mean that Atheists are co-opting Secularism and that Secularism then becomes subservient to Atheism?

How would you control thought? Social Engineering? Threat of incarceration? Threat of Eminent Domain? Outlawing the media from making a movie which depicts any religious, social or cultural identity which goes against Secularism and Atheism? Controlling all the news outlets least they depict any news as it concerns an religious happenings in the world? Burning all books which depicts religion in a favourable light? Outlawing the utterance of any religious worlds? To that end Atheism would have to be actively promoted in the media and such promotion would therefore have to be aggressive, thereby promoting it as a negative ideology which would make the Atheist saying "There is no God" hardly any different from the Religionist saying "You are a sinner".

No, Secularism should not be subservient to Atheism, Atheism should be subservient to Secularism, where the negative is not promoted but rather the positive is promoted. It is the Atheist that has to change his mode of thought where religion is thought to be irrational; co-opting Rationality is not an option since History has already proven the extremes to which Atheism can be taken when it is co-opted by the State.

 

[paarsurrey]

Wouldn't that then mean that Atheists are co-opting Secularism and that Secularism then becomes subservient to Atheism?

The Atheists, in my opinion, hide behind secularism and science while secularism and science work independently.
Regards

 

[Rick O'Shez]

How does one determine what is truth and what is not truth when deciding what should be denounced?

Indeed. Either we can believe what somebody else says, or we can work it out for ourselves.

 

[Muffled]

So.. If there is someone YOU feel is also speaking with the holy spirit, then I assume they can also tell others, by their holy spirit?

I believe so. However discernment of spirits is a gift of the spirit and not everyone has the same gifts. For instance right now I do not have the gift of healing but I do have the gift of speaking in tongues.

Oh.. and is that more accurate than chance? Just curious.

I believe there is no chance involved. God is always accurate.

 

[Muffled]

I don't mean this question to be rude, but is not your ascertain here somewhat judgmental? You say you are Christian and I'm not. Would you be able to 'know' that I know God any better or worse than you do? And even then, isn't it a judgmental POV to assume someone holds you beliefs, or doesn't?

I believe I don't worry about it but I thank you for your consideration.

I believe it is and who is the judge if not God?

I believe I would.

I believe I do not assume.

 

[JoStories]

I believe I don't worry about it but I thank you for your consideration.

I believe it is and who is the judge if not God?

I believe I would.

I believe I do not assume.

I would argue that your statement that you would believe to know God better than I to be judgmental. You can't truly know that unless you have spoken directly face to face with God and that won't happen this side of death. I can respect that you believe that you know God better but I don't agree at all and do find that position judgmental to what I know and understand.

 

[JoStories]

I believe there is no chance involved. God is always accurate.

Ok...Then please explain to me what Matthew, Mark and Luke state that Jesus was entombed with in 'cloth', meaning singular piece of material. Then John states that Jesus was entombed in 'clothes'. Meaning more than one. So which is it and why would God, in this case, not be accurate?

 

[Muffled]

Muffled said: I believe the facts do not support your thinking. The Holy Spirit was only promised to Christians.

And Paarsurrey said: Christians don't follow Jesus' teachings/commandments, they follow Paul, so they don't have any holy spirit.
Regards

Are not both of these statements judgmental? How do you, Parrsurrey, know that Christians are not following what you call the "Holy Spirit"? And how do you, Muffled, know that this "Holy Spirit" is ONLY promised to Christians? Both statements, no offense to either of us, but both statements seem to me to be incredibly myopic and closed minded.

I believe by the Holy Spirit but I will find some verses for you: Acts 19:1-6 To parahrase people who were believing in the baptism of John did not have the Holy Spirit but when they believed in Jesus they received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Muffled]

I would argue that your statement that you would believe to know God better than I to be judgmental. You can't truly know that unless you have spoken directly face to face with God and that won't happen this side of death. I can respect that you believe that you know God better but I don't agree at all and do find that position judgmental to what I know and understand.

i believe face to face is a metaphor. I have God residing in me providing my mind with the words to speak and the knowledge that I need.

I believe it has happened and continues to happen.

I believe one ought to look at this rationally. Are you claiming to have the Holy Spirit? That would make you my equal. However I do not discern the Holy Spirit in you.

 

[Muffled]

Ok...Then please explain to me what Matthew, Mark and Luke state that Jesus was entombed with in 'cloth', meaning singular piece of material. Then John states that Jesus was entombed in 'clothes'. Meaning more than one. So which is it and why would God, in this case, not be accurate?

I believe I do not know how accurate this is historically but The Holy Spirit is telling me that there is a cloth called the shroud that is wrapped around the body and then there are wrappings around the shroud. The best evidence for wrappings comes from John 11:44.

 

[JoStories]

i believe face to face is a metaphor. I have God residing in me providing my mind with the words to speak and the knowledge that I need.

I believe it has happened and continues to happen.

I believe one ought to look at this rationally. Are you claiming to have the Holy Spirit? That would make you my equal. However I do not discern the Holy Spirit in you.

How would you know that I have or have not any spirit within me over this venue? You can't, its that simple. I have God within me, if that is what you mean. I call God Spirit as that more closely approximates my understanding of what God is. You are free to believe whatever works for you just as I am. Do you not see this in the faiths of others? DO you honestly not support their right to believe and interact with God on their own terms>?

 

[JoStories]

I believe I do not know how accurate this is historically but The Holy Spirit is telling me that there is a cloth called the shroud that is wrapped around the body and then there are wrappings around the shroud. The best evidence for wrappings comes from John 11:44.[/QUOT]

Ah but John, from a scholarly POV, is seen as more myth than the first 3 which are seen as more historical. Why the difference?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

I believe there is no chance involved. God is always accurate.

So that's a yes to my question, then? Or do you just rely on not answering things directly?

 

[Muffled]

So that's a yes to my question, then? Or do you just rely on not answering things directly?

I believe I have answerered yes to the question: Can a person speaking by the Holy Spirit tell that others are speaking by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

I believe I have answerered yes to the question: Can a person speaking by the Holy Spirit tell that others are speaking by the Holy Spirit?

Wonderful. Then you're hitting closer to the realm of testable, and should easily be able to show non-believers this manifestation!
Think how wonderful that is

 

[gnostic]

I believe I have answerered yes to the question: Can a person speaking by the Holy Spirit tell that others are speaking by the Holy Spirit?

But how could you possibly know that you have the Holy Spirit?

How do you know that you are speaking or writing on behalf of the Holy Spirit?

I don't get anything that you have written come from Holy Spirit. Nor do I get anything from the gospels or epistles. I have read the claims for the existence of the Holy Spirit, but nothing in it, that would suggest it was divinely inspired.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Defending all revealed religions in origin in ethical, moral and spiritual matters.
In secular matters supporting Atheists against irrational and mythical thoughts.
Open for discussion to Theists and Atheists alike.
Regards

It is what it is. Paarsurrey.

 

[paarsurrey]

It is what it is. Paarsurrey.

Do you agree with me?
Regards