How do you view: the Catholic Church

[athanasius]

These are just word games Francine, if you pray this prayer you are doing much more than offering reverence you are placing you salvation in her hands:

FIRST NOVENA PRAYER IN HONOR OF OUR LADY OF PERPETUAL HELP​

Behold at thy feet, 0 Mother of Perpetual Help, a wretched sinner who has recourse to thee and confides in thee. 0 Mother of mercy, have pity on me.
I hear thee called by all the refuge and the hope of sinners: be then, my refuge and my hope. Assist me, for the love of Jesus Christ; stretch forth thy hand to a miserable fallen creature who recommends himself to thee, and who devotes himself to thy service for ever.
I bless and thank Almighty God, who in His mercy has given me this confidence in thee, which I hold to be a pledge of my eternal salvation.
It is true that in the past I have miserably fallen into sin, because I had not recourse to thee. I know that, with thy help, I shall conquer.
I know. too, that thou wilt assist me, if I recommend myself to thee; but I fear that, in time of danger, I may neglect to call on thee, and thus lose my soul.
This grace, then, I ask of thee, and this I beg, with all the fervor of my soul, that in all the attacks of hell I may ever have recourse to thee. 0 Mary, help me. 0 Mother of Perpetual Help, never suffer me to lose my God.-----3 Hail Marys.

SECOND NOVENA PRAYER TO OUR MOTHER OF PERPETUAL HELP​

0 Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. 0 purest Mary, 0 sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, 0 Blessed Lady, to help me, whenever I call on thee; for, in all my temptations, in all my needs, I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary.
0 what consolation, what sweetness, what confidence, what emotion, fill my soul when I utter thy sacred name, or even only think of thee. I thank the Lord for having given thee, for my good so sweet, so powerful, so lovely a name. But I will not be content with merely uttering thy name. Let my love for thee prompt me ever to hail thee, Mother of Perpetual Help.---3 Hail Marys.

THIRD NOVENA PRAYER TO OUR MOTHER OF PERPETUAL HELP​

0 Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee.
In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.-----3 Hail Marys.
Novena Prayers to Our Mother of Perpetual Help

Paul you bring up some valid concerns. I myself llove to pray a novena to Our Lady of perpetual help as I have great devotion to her. I do not think that its word games. I beleive that the words used in some of the older more poetic prayers(like these) are very devotional and use love language. I can explain more of this if you would like in detail. The truth is we really do not worship her or anyone else. We do venerate(hyperdulia) her above all except Christ and I think this form of veneration comes out loudly in these prayers and can make poeple who are not used to that language feel uncomfortable. Mos tof the times we pray simple hail Mary's or simple prayers. I can understand how a non-Catholic may read these and think that we equate worship to her since we use similar language that we use for Jesus and sometimes in a poetic love language sense.

For example you may hear somebody praying to Mary saying "Mary mother of God my love, save me". Now this sounds a bit heretical at first until you understand the context. Sometimes prayer can be very emotional and use love language because we care very much for a person so we speak in certain ways. It's like if you had a depressed wife and she said to you in a love letter. "Oh my sweat Paul my dearest, my savior, who delivered me from my sorrow, take my whole heart and deliver me from death ." Now she is expressing a very deep love for you but she is not worshiping you or even making you equal to God even though she calls you her savior who delivered her from her sorrows. She means that by meeting you and having a relationship with you, you helped get her out of depression and you saved her from that. You may have even saved her soul by introducing Jesus to her. We view Mary as saving us by giving us her son to the world(St Irenaeus wrote some good stuff on this.) and by praying for us, thus delivering is from death or sin. Just like your wife may poetically ask you to take her whole heart. We sometimes in a loving poetic way ask Mary to do the same, meaning that we ask Mary(as our Mother) to take our concerns and prayers deepest in our hearts to Jesus and pray for us. I hope that helped. I understand this can be confusing. Its all about understanding the context and hyperdulia(veneration) we have for her. But it really isn't worship. I know many lapsed Catholics who still pray to Mary and even they could tell you they do not worship her. that was a great question though! God bless you!

 

[Master Vigil]

I am a Catholic for one reason, and one reason only. The Divine Presence in the Holy Eucharist. The rest is of no care to me.

 

[Francine]

I am a Catholic for one reason, and one reason only. The Divine Presence in the Holy Eucharist. The rest is of no care to me.

The churches rendered from us in the schism of 1054 AD also have the Blessed Sacrament. So I would add that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the promises of Christ, including this very important one to Peter:

Luke.22:[32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

 

[Master Vigil]

The churches rendered from us in the schism of 1054 AD also have the Blessed Sacrament. So I would add that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the promises of Christ, including this very important one to Peter:

Luke.22:[32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

According to my experiences (which are uniquely mine, and subject to scrutiny[look at me caring]) that is not the case. There sacrament is empty.

 

[blackout]

It is my experience that
if you see a thing as empty,
it is empty.
if you see a thing as full,
it is full.
(in the uniqueness of your own life experience-
which is all anyone really has anyway)

 

[Francine]

It is my experience that
if you see a thing as empty,
it is empty.

I see the bellies of children in Bangladesh as empty, and only feeding them will make them full.

 

[Master Vigil]

It is my experience that
if you see a thing as empty,
it is empty.
if you see a thing as full,
it is full.
(in the uniqueness of your own life experience-
which is all anyone really has anyway)

A glass without water is empty of water, but full of air. So what is more important to you when you need sustenance, a glass full of water, or air?

 

[blackout]

I see the bellies of children in Bangladesh as empty, and only feeding them will make them full.

I see the emptiness of the "world's system(s)"
manifesting itself (as one unified expression)
in body, mind and spirit.
and only the fullness of vision and love
and turning inward to god... WithIn ONESELF...
will ever FILL the hearts minds and stomachs
of men to overflowing.

Govts. will no more
fill the stomachs of the worlds starving masses...

Then the Churches
will fill their need for "total" (or partial) union with God.

Where man finds, knows, sees, experiences, touches God...
There God IS.

Until man(s)kind realizes
that God is everything & everywhere
man will continue to rely on other men
for the "fullness" of their "God Experience".
Their experience of God.

It is not until the individuals of the world
are SO FILLED with childlike love and compassion
and unlimited co-creativity in life...
that the stomachs of the world's children will be filled likewise.

As I see it...
it's all ONE thing.

 

[blackout]

A glass without water is empty of water, but full of air. So what is more important to you when you need sustenance, a glass full of water, or air?

When I am thirsty I need water.
When I am suffocated I need air.

God is both Air & Water...

 

[blackout]

We see as we believe.
We believe as we see.

Things are to us ...
as we fashion them.

IMHO...
it is never a good idea to try and put God "in a box".
(no matter how fancy it is, or what kind of a name you give it)

 

[athanasius]

The churches rendered from us in the schism of 1054 AD also have the Blessed Sacrament. So I would add that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the promises of Christ, including this very important one to Peter:

Luke.22:[32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Amen!:yes:

 

[Master Vigil]

When I am thirsty I need water.
When I am suffocated I need air.

God is both Air & Water...

That's not what I asked.

 

[blackout]

A glass without water is empty of water, but full of air. So what is more important to you when you need sustenance, a glass full of water, or air?

Are not water and air both forms of sustenance?
Do they not both sustain us?

I'm sorry.
I think I don't understand the question.
(or the concept the question is pointing to)

Would you mind re-phrasing for me?

 

[Master Vigil]

When I meant sustenance, I meant food or drink. Air really is not referred to as "sustenance". The idea would be "nourishment". When you are sitting at your desk, you are breathing already, so a glass full of air will not be very good at providing sustenance or nourishment. But a glass full of water will. That was my point. You may play word games to make it sound like an empty glass is full, but it's just equivocation.

 

[Muffled]

I thought to start a new series of threads called "How do you view?" How do you view the Catholic Church What do you approve or disprove of their beliefs? why?

I view the Cathlic Church as representing itself as Christian. I see it as an authoritarian institution, but just as much in theological error as any other Christian group.

I disapprove of the phrases "mother of God" and "queen of heaven" which are blasphemous in nature.

I disapprove of requiring preists to be celibate.

Although there are many practices that I might not disapprove, that does not mean that I would wish to be a member of a Catholic church since I much prefer the reformed practices with which I am more familiar.

 

[Francine]

I disapprove of requiring preists to be celibate.

Celibacy is a gift. Jesus said, ""Not all men can accept this precept, but only those to whom it is given...There are those who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this let him receive it" (Matt. 19:11–12).

 

[ChristineES]

Although I see Catholics as true Christians, I notice they do a lot of things that are not commanded to be done in the Bible. But at least they usually do the things that are commanded in the Bible as well.

 

[Master Vigil]

Although I see Catholics as true Christians, I notice they do a lot of things that are not commanded to be done in the Bible. But at least they usually do the things that are commanded in the Bible as well.

Does it say anything about typing on your keyboard, or talking on your phone in the bible?

Also about the priestly celibacy... it is a necessary gift from god for them to be able to do their works without attachment. A priest who is married may have trouble relocating often, but a priest needs to be able to go where he is needed. Attachments will hinder him from doing his job.

 

[ChristineES]

Does it say anything about typing on your keyboard, or talking on your phone in the bible?

Also about the priestly celibacy... it is a necessary gift from god for them to be able to do their works without attachment. A priest who is married may have trouble relocating often, but a priest needs to be able to go where he is needed. Attachments will hinder him from doing his job.

Don't be offended, I didn't say that it was wrong to have those extra beliefs.

 

[Master Vigil]

Don't be offended, I didn't say that it was wrong to have those extra beliefs.

Gotcha