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how does a christian understand the bible?
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
waitasec
Veteran Member
i'm not sure if i follow this logic...
do you think in mt 16 jesus was referring to the transfiguration that occurs 6 or so days later?
waitasec
Veteran Member
I honestly try not to speculate on the unknown. If I can formulate a hypothesis from information provided using source material, from a secular source and/or the Bible (other references within) itself I can answer a question reasonably if not I wont even attempt.
I do not get along with heretical dogma, tradition or doctrines not directly from the cannon.
I will not necessarily discount what has been said but I also can not stand behind it. I will not put God in a Box and to even attempt to fathom and communicate what is not directly written about certain things. I am not saying others are incorrect but I will form no opinion on this.
waitasec
Veteran Member
but isn't the cannon putting god in a box?
It is just the predominant scriptures. I don't follow any denominational doctrine. I have much of the Gnostic scripture and find that though not necessarily out of line it is not necessary. Some of it is a good read though and allows one to broaden their horizons.
When I say putting God in a box I mean actually trying to do things based on what others say is acceptable behavior. I defer to scripture.
Look at what has happened to mankind because of the actions of heresy in the name of Man and Money and Power.
waitasec
Veteran Member
from my perspective, the predominant scriptures hold on to ascertainable approaches towards the idea of god thusly labeling the ideal with certain attributes by means of faith...at the end of the day the unknowable is labeled and put in a box.
sure i get the bible has many great teachings, but that doesn't necessarily prove anything about it being the word of god. this is after all a product of bronze age man.
but would it be fair to say that religion was a tool used to sustain power and wealth for the few that are in control?
A tool over weak minded, desperate and/or illiterate/uneducated people. If it had not been Christianity or Islam, it would have been something else.
We're not matching accounts. Accounts are to be combined together as one so as to have a complete picture.
Side note: Mark chapter 16 ends at verse 8.
The following verses were not in the early manuscripts such as the Vatican 1209 or the Sinaitic. The style of writing changes after verse 8. There are no corresponding nor reference verses as there is with the rest of Scripture.
Jerome and Eusebius agree Mark ends at verse 8.
Side note: Mark chapter 16 ends at verse 8.
The following verses were not in the early manuscripts such as the Vatican 1209 or the Sinaitic. The style of writing changes after verse 8. There are no corresponding nor reference verses as there is with the rest of Scripture.
Jerome and Eusebius agree Mark ends at verse 8.
Matthew 28v2 matches with Mark 16v4; Luke 24v2
John 20v1 matches to Matthew 28v1; Mark 16v1; Luke 24v1,10
[besides Leviticus 23v11 and 1st Cor 15v20].
When the women find Jesus' tomb empty, Mary Magdalene runs to tell Peter and John. Other women remain at tomb who are invited inside by the angel.
The women see yet another angel. Then those women run to tell others.
Mary already found Peter and John. Peter and John then run to tomb.
John being younger so he runs faster and reaches the tomb first.
By this time the women left, so no one is around. John arrives only to see bandages while he remains outside of the tomb.
Impetuous Peter runs right into the tomb and John also then enters.
John nor Peter believe Jesus was raised up so puzzled they return home.
Mary on the other hand goes back to the tomb and stays there.
While the other women are running to tell the disciples about Jesus,
the resurrected [but not ascended to heaven yet] Jesus meets them
and tells them to report to the men.
The Jews decided to hush up the matter by saying Jesus body was stolen.
The false report became widely circulated among the Jews.
Mary who stayed behind now sees two angels. Mary thinks one appeared angel is a garden caretaker. Once she hears the 'voice' then Mary knows it is the resurrected Jesus. Jesus who has not yet ascended tells Mary to go to the men and inform the men that he is going to ascend to heaven.
Of course, the men do not believe the other women and do not believe Mary
[Matthew 28vs3-5; Mark 16vs5-8; Luke 24vs4-12; John 20vs2-18]
The account then continues with: Luke 24 vs11,13-48; John 20 vs19-29
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
matthew 28:2 says that an "angel had descended from heaven and approached and rolled away the stone, and was sitting on it" which would make the tomb open and therefore all the accounts in agreement, yes?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
actually its not completely different...its what you get when you combine all the accounts to get a full picture of the chain of events. You have to remember that each bible writer was writing from a different perspective...they only write the events that they individually 'saw'
Luminous
non-existential luminary
you should add my account in there also
Luminous 1:1 this whole book is fiction.
Luminous 1:2 you do understand that idol scripture is also an idol, don't you?
Luminous 1:3 written personal experience is still personal experience, who do you think i am? you?
Luminous 1:4 actually, the harry potter series and the lord of the ring series don't contradict eachother, they belong together.
Luminous 1:5 also, the movie versions don't contradict the book versions, they also belong together.
yes, i know, its a very short additional book...but The Lord felt it needed to be included these days.
Last edited:
starlite
Texasgirl
It can be likened to a few people witnessing a situation taking place. Later a reporter asks each person what they saw taking place...does each individual give exactly the same story? They were all eyewitnesses.
waitasec
Veteran Member
in other words you understand the bible to be an eye witness account...
then how is that possible if the gospels were written at the very least 25 yrs after jesus died?
there are certain instances were it was impossible for the disciples to be an eye witness.
consider this, when the disciples fled at the time of jesus arrest, what disciple heard the dialogue between jesus and pilate?
or what about in mark...
14:61Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?
62 I am, said Jesus. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.
since whoever he was talking to died...did he see the son of man sitting at the right hand of the mighty one coming on the clouds of heaven?
i think not.
and how do you reconcile that mark, which is now being argued to be the 1st gospel written, ends with 16:8 with an empty tomb? no resurrection mentioned. the earliest manuscripts do not have vs. 9-20...
the NIV says
"The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 920."
you believe it through faith, in other words you understand the bible to be true, blindly.
Most of these things boil down to the fact that some of us have faith while others do not.
There are so many things out there that are accepted but can not be proved in the scientific community that are accepted as truth and when asked to prove it the response is always negative.
When a believer is asked about something and his answer is plausible and provable to a point (more than some of the string theory and parallel dimensions) it is also met with ridicule.
The question was posed : "how does a christian understand the bible?"
A good question and most has been very enlightening but here is my issue at this point: Don't ask a question and then criticize the answer. There seems to be an intent to discredit here. That (as far as I know) was not the purpose to this thread. Things get explained and there is the answer. If this answer is not understandable perhaps a little faith is what is necessary to understand the answer.
My point is if the answer is unacceptable it is still the answer so move on.
There are so many things out there that are accepted but can not be proved in the scientific community that are accepted as truth and when asked to prove it the response is always negative.
When a believer is asked about something and his answer is plausible and provable to a point (more than some of the string theory and parallel dimensions) it is also met with ridicule.
The question was posed : "how does a christian understand the bible?"
A good question and most has been very enlightening but here is my issue at this point: Don't ask a question and then criticize the answer. There seems to be an intent to discredit here. That (as far as I know) was not the purpose to this thread. Things get explained and there is the answer. If this answer is not understandable perhaps a little faith is what is necessary to understand the answer.
My point is if the answer is unacceptable it is still the answer so move on.
waitasec
Veteran Member
discredit can only come from reason and logic...
faith is the only thing that gives the bible any credit. so really there is nothing anyone can say that their understanding comes from a reasonable point of view. empirical evidence can not be discredited. ontological beliefs can and why? because it does not adhere to any reasonable and logical explanation. nature is full of unknowns, however being as inquisitive as we are, we search for the how while the why is impossible to know...
and the bible ontologically gives the believer the why and thusly gives them a sense of undue importance because they actually think a deity is concerned with their daily lives. and we have seen throughout history that this stance only causes people to fight and divide themselves and form their little clubs.
this approach to the meaning of life is based on a bronze age mentality filled with ignorance and biases only because their understanding of the natural world was not discovered.
i understand the bible, if taken literally, as a regression. afraid of change and progress. only because it feeds into the idea that we are more important than what we really are..we are all living beings experiencing life through our limited capacity of understanding...
we have to know our limitations in order to grow.
just as a blind man's sense of hearing becomes acute to compensate his inability to see the blind man knows he's blind, the blind man knows his limitations and adjusts to the world around him.
But some questions are meant for discussion and there is discussion. Others seem to be answered and yet the answers are ridiculed. You have presented many good questions and generally explained your issues with the answers but I have seen some either try to discount the answer or twist it so that the one who answered is pushed into a defensive posture. There can not be a discussion when one is in defensive mode or preparing a counter.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i wouldn't say ridiculed, i would say these answers are being challenged...
evidence cannot be subjected to ridicule, especially if these answers are actually what they truly believe to be the truth...
there is no need to be defensive if the challenge was met with reasonable argument, in other words, religious faith just doesn't cut it. because religious faith is illogical, it goes beyond understanding and that to me is opening pandoras box of issues that we have come to terms with throughout history.
religious faith places the believer in a position of superiority because god is on their side and everyone else is either misguided or the enemy.