how does a christian understand the bible?

[waitasec]

Wait a minute - so you're saying the faithful AREN'T happier or more peaceful or possibly even more moral than they were without their faith? How can you know that? Just because YOU weren't, or what?

Also - if a person's faith makes them FEEL happier or FEEL more peaceful or FEEL more in control of their moral decisions - how is that false belief? Happiness and a feeling of peace are FEELINGS - if you FEEL them, they are real FEELINGS.

yes they are real feelings, so what is it about faith that makes life more special? faith and non faith is the same as far as i can tell.

faith is what faith does...
thus far i haven't seen any difference than someone who doesn't count on faith in god to be a better person as someone who does count on god

people feel happy without faith, people feel peaceful without faith, people feel in control without faith so then how does faith set anyone apart?

people of faith and people without faith are both prone to weakness, so what can you do that i cannot by means of faith?

people of faith cannot be MORE peaceful, MORE happier, or MORE in control

 

[waitasec]

Wait a minute - so you're saying the faithful AREN'T happier or more peaceful or possibly even more moral than they were without their faith?

yes.
how is it that people without faith can feel these things just as much as someone with faith?

How can you know that? Just because YOU weren't, or what?

i can only speak from my experiences. you think you feel happier with faith and i feel happier without it, so how does faith give you a leg up?

 

[starlite]

ok, so why stick their noses in other peoples business? if that wasn't a nasty trait of theirs then atheists wouldn't be complaining about them...

Jesus said that the "good news" would be preached throughout the earth....so if you choose to call this sticking their noses in other peoples business, then I guess we are. I personallly view it as giving someone the opportunity to make a choice to listen to what God has to say in his Word, the Bible, and then decide if they want to act on it. You do realize that all you have to do is say..."No thank you, I'm not interested"

 

[waitasec]

Jesus said that the "good news" would be preached throughout the earth....so if you choose to call this sticking their noses in other peoples business, then I guess we are. I personallly view it as giving someone the opportunity to make a choice to listen to what God has to say in his Word, the Bible, and then decide if they want to act on it. You do realize that all you have to do is say..."No thank you, I'm not interested"

i don't want telemarketing christians on the phone
i don't want people knocking on my front door selling their religion
and there is a difference between that and how some people believe they are morally superior than i thinking they can vote on my inalienable right to marry whomever i want to marry...which is what i was referring to.
so if your religion tells you to treat others as you would like to be treated then you believe your inalienable right to worship in public should be subjected for people like me to vote on...right....?

you can't have it both ways...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

yes.
how is it that people without faith can feel these things just as much as someone with faith?
i can only speak from my experiences. you think you feel happier with faith and i feel happier without it, so how does faith give you a leg up?

People with or without faith/belief can be happy and even find a purpose and meaning in their life.

Only what Jesus taught gives us 'hope', future hope of surviving the end times of these last days of badness on earth because Jesus is the only one that can and will bring Peace on Earth.
-Psalm 46v9

Those three little words that Jesus taught "thy kingdom come" is good news for mankind because that kingdom is the future for peaceful world government ruling in righteousness for all nations in the hands of Christ Jesus acting as king of God's kingdom.


Daniel 7vs13,14; 2v44

 

[waitasec]

People with or without faith/belief can be happy and even find a purpose and meaning in their life.

Only what Jesus taught gives us 'hope', future hope of surviving the end times of these last days of badness on earth because Jesus is the only one that can and will bring Peace on Earth.
-Psalm 46v9

Those three little words that Jesus taught "thy kingdom come" is good news for mankind because that kingdom is the future for peaceful world government ruling in righteousness for all nations in the hands of Christ Jesus acting as king of God's kingdom.


Daniel 7vs13,14; 2v44

faith is a machine that feeds off fear i say this because you bring this up, surviving the end times, is that your fear that you won't.

what about surviving today?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

faith is a machine that feeds off fear i say this because you bring this up, surviving the end times, is that your fear that you won't.
what about surviving today?

Survival today is primarily 'spiritual' survival.
Meaning now is the time for spiritual healing.
During Jesus millennial reign over earth is the time for physical healing.

The only fear we need is 'reverential fear' of displeasing God.

Clergy have used faith/religion as a fear/fright scare tactic.
But, Jesus is offering the opportunity to live forever.
If we are still alive at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32] the humble, mild sheep-like ones will inherit the earth as Jesus promised when he referred to Psalm 37vs11,29.

What healthy persons want to pick the day they want to die?

Fear of surviving the end times is sort of moot point because the 'end' concerning Matthew [24v14] could be the either the end of one's life,
or the end when Jesus ends wickedness on earth before he ushers in global Peace on Earth.

Isn't there a difference between 'fear' and 'fright' ?
The 'fear' of Luke [21v26] is because of things happening around the earth.
Verse 28 assures us when we see the features of Jesus 'sign' or the bad events on a global scale to 'lift up one's head' because deliverance is getting near. Or, in other words, survival is getting near. -Rev 7v14.

According to Rev [19v11] Jesus carries on war in 'righteousness'.
So, no one Jesus judges as righteous will be harmed.
Wicked are destroyed or annihilated forever- Psalm 92v7
So, there is no fear of suffering after death or destruction.
Since we do not do any of the fighting at Armageddon [last war to end all wars], then what is there to be frightened about?
-Rev 19v15; Isaiah 11v4.

 

[waitasec]

Survival today is primarily 'spiritual' survival.
Meaning now is the time for spiritual healing.

what is your definition of now?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

what is your definition of now?

'Now' in our lifetime.

What of Matthew chapter 24 or Luke chapter 21 has not yet come to pass?

 

[waitasec]

'Now' in our lifetime.

What of Matthew chapter 24 or Luke chapter 21 has not yet come to pass?

but why is our lifetime anymore important than any other?

edit:
the destruction of the temple happened before the gospel of matthew was written in 70-100 AD

now is a long time

 

[starlite]

what is your definition of now?

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
The Bible tells of the end of this present system of things. We are now living in the last days before it ends. What is so important about now? It's time for us to find out what God requires of us.[/FONT]

 

[waitasec]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
The Bible tells of the end of this present system of things. We are now living in the last days before it ends. What is so important about now? It's time for us to find out what God requires of us.[/FONT]

but would it be fair to say that the now you are referring to has passed?
Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” the words “some WHO ARE standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes today. the people he was speaking to died...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

but would it be fair to say that the now you are referring to has passed?
Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” the words “some WHO ARE standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes today. the people he was speaking to died...

You are very observant, and please continue reading into chapter 17vs1-9
Jesus was talking to Peter, James and John as the some standing here.
Jesus was talking about the transfiguration vision.
They would see in vision form a taste or foregleam of Jesus 'glory time' of Matthew 25v31 that would be future or in our time frame.

 

[waitasec]

You are very observant, and please continue reading into chapter 17vs1-9
Jesus was talking to Peter, James and John as the some standing here.
Jesus was talking about the transfiguration vision.

mt 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

this is not about the transfiguration...he's coming with his angels and he's awarding each person according to what they have done...
and this transfiguration happened 6 days after 16:27-28...so saying some of you here will not taste death seems a bit improbable that he was talking about the transfiguration.

They would see in vision form a taste or foregleam of Jesus 'glory time' of Matthew 25v31 that would be future or in our time frame.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

jesus is referring to the same event... coming in his glory as in 16:27-28

 

[URAVIP2ME]

but why is our lifetime anymore important than any other?
edit:
the destruction of the temple happened before the gospel of matthew was written in 70-100 AD
now is a long time

Exactly. Because both Matthew 24 and Luke 21 have both minor and major fulfillments is why Jesus minor fulfillment words applied to the destruction of Jerusalem that you mention in the year 70.

Good question as to why our lifetime is anymore important.
The composite 'sign' [Matt 24v3] that Jesus described has many features, facets, or many events connected to his 'sign'. In other words, we would not visibly see Jesus acting at the time of Matt 24v8 or now, but we are to be alert that there would be ample proof in the global troubles surrounding our earth.
-Rev 12vs9,12; 11v18 B

With the vast scope of world-wide problems there is also mentioned a most important work that would be done at the same time as earth's 'woes' would be occurring.
Jesus said, and it is now so, that the good news of God's kingdom would be proclaimed in all the world, to all nations, before we see the end come of all badness on earth. -Matt 24v14.

For example: Never before have we had rapid Bible translation as we do today, which not only helps with Bible distribution but makes the Bible available in many more languages as never before. That means Jesus modern foot-step followers have more ways to reach people faster.

Do you recall back in the year 70 it was actually God that was behind the action taken by the Roman armies? The political/military world became God's 'ax', so to speak, to fulfill Jesus words for the minor part of prophecy.
see: Matt 24v15.

Religious Jerusalem had become apostate. The religious world today has run afoul playing false to God and his Word, so the time is ripe for God to once again use a political/military 'ax' [UN] to turn on the world's religious sector that thinks she sits as a global religious 'queen' that will never see morning.
Rev 17vs2,17; 18vs7,8.

Although there is church attendance do you think many peoples are really spiritually dried up?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

mt 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
this is not about the transfiguration...he's coming with his angels and he's awarding each person according to what they have done...
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
jesus is referring to the same event... coming in his glory as in 16:27-28

Yes exactly Jesus is referring to the same event in Matthew chapters 16,17 and Matthew 25. Just remember the first event was a 'vision' not the actual happening, whereas Matthew 25 will be the actual event not a vision.
-Matt 17v9

The 'some of them' [not all as in Matt 25] that did not see death [Peter, James and John] saw Jesus transfigured or in his 'shining glory' [Matt 17v2] .
The vision that they saw was like a picture projected of Matthew chapter 25.

 

[waitasec]

Yes exactly Jesus is referring to the same event in Matthew chapters 16,17 and Matthew 25. Just remember the first event was a 'vision' not the actual happening, whereas Matthew 25 will be the actual event not a vision.
-Matt 17v9

The 'some of them' [not all as in Matt 25] that did not see death [Peter, James and John] saw Jesus transfigured or in his 'shining glory' [Matt 17v2] .
The vision that they saw was like a picture projected of Matthew chapter 25.

so some will not see death in a period of 6 days?
it isn't very likely that is what he's talking about

 

[URAVIP2ME]

so some will not see death in a period of 6 days?
it isn't very likely that is what he's talking about

We do know Matthew does not end at chapter 16 and 17 picks up were 16 leaves off.

Peter, James and John did not die at that time frame.
They would not taste death before they would see Jesus coming in his kingdom. see: -Matt 10v23 B; 16v28;17v2; Mark 8v37;9v1
Jesus did not come in his kingdom at that time frame.
We are still praying for God's kingdom to come. "thy kingdom come".
-Daniel 7vs13,14;2v44

They used a lot of shoe leather in those days, so we do not know how long it took them to probably walk to that high mountain. Perhaps they had to prepare for the journey first before they could all get together at the same time.

I notice Rev 19v14 connects with Matt 16v27 mentioning Jesus with his angels.
Jesus did not come with his angels at that time, or the year 70, or up til now.
Jesus did not separate peoples as mentioned at Matthew 25vs31,32.

Wasn't Revelation [the Bible's happy climax] written mainly for our day?

 

[Pegg]

but would it be fair to say that the now you are referring to has passed?
Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” the words “some WHO ARE standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes today. the people he was speaking to died...

Jesus was speaking of the transfiguration in this verse.

Matt 16:28 Truly I say to YOU that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”
Matt 17:1 Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John his brother along and brought them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light. ...5 While he was yet speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and, look! a voice out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.” 6 At hearing this the disciples fell upon their faces and became very much afraid

The transfiguration was the confirmation by God that Jesus will be glorified in the Kingdom of God..it was an assured hope that God had confirmed for Peter later wrote at 2 Peter
1:16 No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we acquainted YOU with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but it was by having become eyewitnesses of his magnificence. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when words such as these were borne to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18 Yes, these words we heard borne from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.

 

[waitasec]

We do know Matthew does not end at chapter 16 and 17 picks up were 16 leaves off.

Peter, James and John did not die at that time frame.
They would not taste death before they would see Jesus coming in his kingdom. see: -Matt 10v23 B; 16v28;17v2; Mark 8v37;9v1
Jesus did not come in his kingdom at that time frame.
We are still praying for God's kingdom to come. "thy kingdom come".
-Daniel 7vs13,14;2v44

ok lets say jesus was referring to the transformation that happens 6 + ?days later...coming means he was coming back, right? and what about the angles..? there were no angles, unless you want to consider moses and elijah angles.