how does a christian understand the bible?

[starlite]

the stories where god condones genocide, slavery, human trafficking, rape...are those to be taken literal or not?

The point of this post is to take issue with the use of the word "condones". God's purpose is to protect the righteous and remove the unrighteous.

God’s past adverse judgments were always against ungodly people. For example, it was not until the earth of Noah’s day became “filled with violence” that Jehovah said: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active.” Regarding another judgment, it was only because the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah had “abandoned themselves to sexual immorality and were bent on perverted sensuality” that God caused it to “rain sulphur and fire.”

Did God relish bringing all flesh to ruin in Noah’s day? Or did he derive some fiendish pleasure from destroying the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah? For an answer, look at the events surrounding the Flood of Noah’s day. After stating that God would wipe wicked mankind off the surface of the ground in order to cleanse the earth of violence, the Bible says: “Jehovah . . . felt hurt at his heart.” Yes, it grieved God that “every inclination of the thoughts of [man’s] heart was only bad all the time.” Hence, to save as many as possible from the impending Deluge, God dispatched Noah, “a preacher of righteousness,” to sound a warning message and to build an ark for preservation.

In like manner, before sending angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, God said: “I propose to go down and see whether or not they have done all that is alleged in the outcry against them . . . I am determined to know.” (Genesis 18:20-32, The Jerusalem Bible) He himself says: “I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living.”—Ezekiel 33:11.

Adverse judgments from God have always resulted because wicked people adamantly refuse to abandon a bad course, not because Jehovah enjoys killing people. But you may wonder, ‘Did not Jehovah encourage the Israelites to war with the Canaanites and to annihilate them?’

History gives us a graphic picture of Canaanite life—they were exceedingly wicked. Spiritism, child sacrifice, sadistic violence, and various forms of perverted sex worship were the order of the day. As a God of justice who exacts exclusive devotion, Jehovah could not allow these disgusting practices to disrupt the peace and security of innocent people.

Divine justice was carried out when God’s executional forces—the Israelite armies—destroyed the Canaanites. As a respecter of life, however, God did not sanction indiscriminate killing. For example, when the residents of one Canaanite city, Gibeon, asked for mercy, Jehovah granted it. Would a vicious war god have done this? No, but a God who loves peace and justice would.

So...yes, our Heavenly Father is a loving, benevolent God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Civil Shepherd-

What about also an ultimate society on earth?
-Psalm 37vs11,29

Isn't there a difference between the 'sheep' of Matthew 25v32 and Jesus 'brothers' of verse 40?

The sheep-like people are living on earth at the time of Jesus glory and they can remain alive on earth and keep on living right into everlasting life into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.

Who remain as an ultimate earthly society according to Prov. 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18?

 

[Civil Shephard]

Civil Shepherd-

What about also an ultimate society on earth?
-Psalm 37vs11,29

Isn't there a difference between the 'sheep' of Matthew 25v32 and Jesus 'brothers' of verse 40?

The sheep-like people are living on earth at the time of Jesus glory and they can remain alive on earth and keep on living right into everlasting life into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.

Who remain as an ultimate earthly society according to Prov. 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18?

Those versus all of which I looked up using the wonderful Biblegateway.com are I think the further evidence of Christ teaching the highlights of the OT for the kind of characteristics God is most concerned with finding in us. Thank you for pointing those versus out as I feel they are appropriate to looking at the bible through the lens of Christ teaching. The ultimate earthly society will be founded and led and taught a more perfect way during the 1000 year reign I suppose but I think of it as an actual time to come... of that I'm not sure of literal interpretation. I do believe it to be an actual reign where folks will exclaim "Let us go and learn from the Lord" as they make pilgrimages each year to meet and learn from Christ himself.

It seems to me that there is an ultimate society coming where even perhaps forums like these will be more face to face... I love the OT, but to me the Teachings of Christ could survive without Solomon or Jonah even though the Queen of Sheba and the people of Nineveh are I'm sure grateful for Gods wisdom presented through them. My focus on Christ Teachings is more a matter of being responsible to what our Creator showed me in practice as well as principle.

 

[waitasec]

The point of this post is to take issue with the use of the word "condones". God's purpose is to protect the righteous and remove the unrighteous.

define righteous and unrighteous in the context of the OT...
i would say the righteous were the ones that followed the god of abraham...

God’s past adverse judgments were always against ungodly people. For example, it was not until the earth of Noah’s day became “filled with violence” that Jehovah said: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active.” Regarding another judgment, it was only because the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah had “abandoned themselves to sexual immorality and were bent on perverted sensuality” that God caused it to “rain sulphur and fire.”

so you believe this society was able to function without any morals or laws, really?

Did God relish bringing all flesh to ruin in Noah’s day? Or did he derive some fiendish pleasure from destroying the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah? For an answer, look at the events surrounding the Flood of Noah’s day. After stating that God would wipe wicked mankind off the surface of the ground in order to cleanse the earth of violence, the Bible says: “Jehovah . . . felt hurt at his heart.” Yes, it grieved God that “every inclination of the thoughts of [man’s] heart was only bad all the time.” Hence, to save as many as possible from the impending Deluge, God dispatched Noah, “a preacher of righteousness,” to sound a warning message and to build an ark for preservation.

every inclination of the heart is evil from childhood... that is a flat our fallacy...
throughout history there has been plenty of chances for god to intervene
manifest destiny, wwII the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki, yet he intervenes when the tower of babel threatens him for some strange reason...
and please explain why you would only find kangaroos in australia and not one fossilized kangaroo bone en route to australia? or penguins or bears... surely after the flood we would see evidence of these species coming from mount ararat.
i'm sorry but how can you take these stories literally?

In like manner, before sending angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, God said: “I propose to go down and see whether or not they have done all that is alleged in the outcry against them . . . I am determined to know.” (Genesis 18:20-32, The Jerusalem Bible) He himself says: “I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living.”—Ezekiel 33:11.
Adverse judgments from God have always resulted because wicked people adamantly refuse to abandon a bad course, not because Jehovah enjoys killing people. But you may wonder, ‘Did not Jehovah encourage the Israelites to war with the Canaanites and to annihilate them?’

define wicked
the people who do not heed to jehovah's commandments...not about
thou shall not murder, steal, covet but about thou shall have no other gods before me, for i am a jealous god.
it's funny to think that only the righteous ones follow the commandments...
but what moral act can you do as a believer that i cannot do

History gives us a graphic picture of Canaanite life—they were exceedingly wicked. Spiritism, child sacrifice, sadistic violence, and various forms of perverted sex worship were the order of the day. As a God of justice who exacts exclusive devotion, Jehovah could not allow these disgusting practices to disrupt the peace and security of innocent people.

so i guess it's easier to wipe out an entire race of people rather that educating them... war is the only way... ahh, that doesn't seem like a godly thing to do, unless of course god is absolutely dependent on his mortal followers.

Divine justice was carried out when God’s executional forces—the Israelite armies—destroyed the Canaanites. As a respecter of life, however, God did not sanction indiscriminate killing. For example, when the residents of one Canaanite city, Gibeon, asked for mercy, Jehovah granted it. Would a vicious war god have done this? No, but a God who loves peace and justice would.

well the vicitims of 9/11 can tell you about divine justice

So...yes, our Heavenly Father is a loving, benevolent God.

sorry, i can only deduce that, if there is a god, it is indifferent.
history tells me so

 

[waitasec]

I do think it's about good old fashioned friendliness. But I don't think we can easily ignore the fact that some folks allow themselve to do and say things to folks out an evil heart.

what is the norm? are people generally nice and decent to one another?
i would say yes. and i would also say that faith should be the beacon of goodness, but people do a lot of ugly things in the name of faith...that is why i say people are people and we need to see how important it is to be accountable to one another and not this idea of god

These folks affect others in ways that are not good and some even make this life hell on earth for others. I think that's why God cares... he wants us to get along with eachother and also get along with him for an ultimate society in heaven. I believe we exsist with this purpose and that Gods concern isn't so much for technical criteria but for the values you mention. My only addition would be that a seeking for ultimate truth be a value... as I like to joke with a friend who doesn't believe in absolute truth I asked if she believed that absolutely.

i am of the opinion that god is indifferent. there is too much needless suffering of innocent children in the world.

i agree we have a purpose, for lack of a better word to explain what i feel.
if you are a parent, it's that feeling of belonging to something bigger than yourself and contributing to a force beyond your limited understanding.
it's like looking at the milky way in the midnight sky and realizing how small you are but somehow you're also apart of that vastness

 

[Civil Shephard]

what is the norm? are people generally nice and decent to one another?

They say common sense and military intelligence are both contradictions in terms. But I would say that people are generally decent and nice to one another. But I live in South Central Los Angeles and there can be some strong variants on that theme.

i am of the opinion that god is indifferent. there is too much needless suffering of innocent children in the world.

Case in point... where are all those nice people?

i agree we have a purpose, for lack of a better word to explain what i feel.
if you are a parent, it's that feeling of belonging to something bigger than yourself and contributing to a force beyond your limited understanding.
it's like looking at the milky way in the midnight sky and realizing how small you are but somehow you're also apart of that vastness

Well... I've written a book entitled "The Purpose Driven Nissan" but Pastor Rick Warren has blocked me from publishing using that title (I'm kidding of course). No... I'm not a parent. And I looked to the stars as a child and now I try to look to the creator of creation for my purpose and my answers. I have an answer to suffering and such but I'd be hard pressed to share it here. suffice it to say that I believe you and I are on a path toward a better country... a better universe... and a better understanding of that indifferent creator who seems to give only brief glimpses and subtle hints to us thinkers and seekers. I just happen to believe the answers are found in looking beyond the rain that falls on the just and the unjust and the sun that shines on the good and the evil. I seek first that better place that starts right here in these words you and I are typing and reading. In the understanding and communcation of fellow images of I AM. But I'm a poet not a prophet so I should probably just throw my hands up and admit

waitasec! I don't know! (love your forum name... comes in handy!)

 

[waitasec]

They say common sense and military intelligence are both contradictions in terms. But I would say that people are generally decent and nice to one another. But I live in South Central Los Angeles and there can be some strong variants on that theme.

the other day i lost my cell and the keys to my car at disneyland
someone returned it to the lost and found. another time i lost my wallet at the supermarket, someone returned it to the manager...another time i went for a walk and when i was heading out i noticed signs posted on trees to be aware that there have been car thefts in the area...what i took out of that is someone was nice enough to post these signs for the benefit of strangers... the stolen cars part was secondary.

Case in point... where are all those nice people?

but misery isn't always caused by other people...we have chaos and disease to deal with too.

Well... I've written a book entitled "The Purpose Driven Nissan" but Pastor Rick Warren has blocked me from publishing using that title (I'm kidding of course). No... I'm not a parent. And I looked to the stars as a child and now I try to look to the creator of creation for my purpose and my answers. I have an answer to suffering and such but I'd be hard pressed to share it here. suffice it to say that I believe you and I are on a path toward a better country... a better universe... and a better understanding of that indifferent creator who seems to give only brief glimpses and subtle hints to us thinkers and seekers. I just happen to believe the answers are found in looking beyond the rain that falls on the just and the unjust and the sun that shines on the good and the evil. I seek first that better place that starts right here in these words you and I are typing and reading. In the understanding and communcation of fellow images of I AM. But I'm a poet not a prophet so I should probably just throw my hands up and admit

waitasec! I don't know! (love your forum name... comes in handy!)

:rainbow1:

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Those versus all of which I looked up using the wonderful Biblegateway.com are I think the further evidence of Christ teaching the highlights of the OT for the kind of characteristics God is most concerned with finding in us. Thank you for pointing those versus out as I feel they are appropriate to looking at the bible through the lens of Christ teaching. The ultimate earthly society will be founded and led and taught a more perfect way during the 1000 year reign I suppose but I think of it as an actual time to come... of that I'm not sure of literal interpretation. I do believe it to be an actual reign where folks will exclaim "Let us go and learn from the Lord" as they make pilgrimages each year to meet and learn from Christ himself.

It seems to me that there is an ultimate society coming where even perhaps forums like these will be more face to face... I love the OT, but to me the Teachings of Christ could survive without Solomon or Jonah even though the Queen of Sheba and the people of Nineveh are I'm sure grateful for Gods wisdom presented through them. My focus on Christ Teachings is more a matter of being responsible to what our Creator showed me in practice as well as principle.

I like how you expressed looking through the lens of Christ's teaching because his 'lens' was always in sharp focus.- Hebrews 4v12

At Matthew 24v14 Jesus says the good news of God's kingdom [Dan 2v44] would be preached on a global scale, then will the end come.
The end of all badness on earth.
We are in the last days of badness on earth [2nd Tim 3vs1-5,13].
characterized by people displaying a selfish distorted form of love that is in contrast to the Christ-like love defined at 1st Cor 13vs4-6; John 13vs34,35

Rapid Bible translation has sped up that rapid process of spreading the good news by making the Bible available in more mother tongues [foreign languages] than ever before.

After the good news is spread world wide, then there is a final judgment of those still alive on earth as mentioned at Matt 25vs31,32.
Jesus bases his final judgment at that time on verses 40,45 how people react to his message and his 'brothers' still on earth.

Please notice the ultimate society of righteous 'sheep' in verse 46 go into everlasting life. Adam was promised everlasting life if obedient.
Since the obedient sheep are alive at that time they can keep on living right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth without having to die.
They will be the first to see the start of the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed, and all nations of the earth will be blessed. Blessed with healing or curing of nations.
-Rev 22v2; Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18

Some of those blessings or benefits include:
Micah 4vs3,4
Isaiah 65vs21-25; 35v5-9
Psalm 46v9; Isaiah 2v4
John 5vs28,29; Acts 24v15
Rev 21vs4,5; Isaiah 25vs6-7; 1st Cor 15v26

Jesus showed us in 'practice' an well as 'principle' in his Sermon on the Mount, the Golden Rule, and the Christ-like love of John 13vs34,35

If all on earth just lived by the Golden Rule what kind of society would earth have?

 

[smokydot]

are you talking about thought crime?

Thought crime?

What law of the land does that violate?

Sounds like you are a legislator unto yourself.

did you grow up being told god was everywhere and knows your thoughts?
i accept the importance of my integrity and self dignity. so i wouldn't consider it obeying or doing the right thing, i guess. it's what i accept in order to be able to live with my self.

That's a flimsy basis. . .which will not sustain you in a trial of your integrity and self dignity. . .which you can count on occurring before you die.

You need the Jesus that ReadtheBible knows.

 

[waitasec]

Thought crime?

What law of the land does that violate?

Sounds like you are a legislator unto yourself.
That's a flimsy basis. . .which will not sustain you in a trial of your integrity and self dignity. . .which you can count on occurring before you die.

You need the Jesus that ReadtheBible knows.

oh so you think living a life full of guilt is good for you...not surprising you keep reverting to fear mongering

 

[waitasec]

Thought crime?

What law of the land does that violate?

Sounds like you are a legislator unto yourself.
That's a flimsy basis. . .which will not sustain you in a trial of your integrity and self dignity. . .which you can count on occurring before you die.

You need the Jesus that ReadtheBible knows.

why do you automatically assume that have to be an deviant because i do not believe in the god of your bible? what moral act can you do that i cannot?

all i'm saying is i don't need to be told what is good or bad, i've figured that out for myself, you make it seem as though i can put up with my dishonesty. how in the world can you make such a claim about me? you don't know me.
if anything, this only shows how judgmental you are and you feel justified in doing it because i object to the god in your bible...don't you see how trivial that makes your own god?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

all i'm saying is i don't need to be told what is good or bad, i've figured that out for myself, you make it seem as though i can put up with my dishonesty. how in the world can you make such a claim about me? you don't know me.
if anything, this only shows how judgmental you are and you feel justified in doing it because i object to the god in your bible...don't you see how trivial that makes your own god?

Because of being born with a 'built-in conscious' we can figure good and bad.
Romans 2vs14,15; 1st Tim 4v2

How does one object to: Jesus Sermon on the Mount, the Golden Rule,
or object to Jesus new commandment to love others as he loved us?
John 13vs34,35

 

[Archer]

Criticism and hypocrisy. I think that is the root of the issue. If I may:

We have preachers screwing around with women while they are married none the less, some priests taking indecent liberties, some clergy stealing from the weak. There is so much wrong in the churches today that we do not hear the good things.

If I were on the outside looking in I would not want anything to do with the Abrahamic lot.

There is no moral act higher than accepting Christ into you and living as such. When we consider that the vast majority of professing Christians only want fire insurance; is it any wonder that we have these types of problems? We the believers need to admonish the slackers, kick them out and stop paying lip service to God. We need to live the example not tell others how they should live.

Christians need to sit down with the Bible and learn what it really is to be a Christian not just have some feel good liar that will burn in hell tell them that they are saved. There is so much to being a Christian that is not taught or said that it is no wonder that waitasec and others don't get it. Hell most Christians don't nor do they want to because if they did they might actually have to change their ways.

 

[waitasec]

Because of being born with a 'built-in conscious' we can figure good and bad.
Romans 2vs14,15; 1st Tim 4v2

How does one object to: Jesus Sermon on the Mount, the Golden Rule,
or object to Jesus new commandment to love others as he loved us?
John 13vs34,35

the golden rule was not originated in the bible.

i'm not so sure how you can equate manipulation thru an ultimatum as an expression of love...

 

[Archer]

i'm not so sure how you can equate manipulation thru an ultimatum as an expression of love...

Faith. You do the same with children.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

the golden rule was not originated in the bible.
i'm not so sure how you can equate manipulation thru an ultimatum as an expression of love...

Within the Bible we are talking about the Constitution of the Mosaic law.
Under the Mosaic law, Leviticus [19vs18,34], is the Golden Rule or law.

What is the ultimatum about the Christ-like love defined at 1st Cor 13 vs4-6 ?

Should there be a law or ultimatum against Galatians 5 vs22,23 ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Criticism and hypocrisy. I think that is the root of the issue. If I may:
We have preachers screwing around with women while they are married none the less, some priests taking indecent liberties, some clergy stealing from the weak. There is so much wrong in the churches today that we do not hear the good things.
If I were on the outside looking in I would not want anything to do with the Abrahamic lot.
There is no moral act higher than accepting Christ into you and living as such. When we consider that the vast majority of professing Christians only want fire insurance; is it any wonder that we have these types of problems? We the believers need to admonish the slackers, kick them out and stop paying lip service to God. We need to live the example not tell others how they should live.
Christians need to sit down with the Bible and learn what it really is to be a Christian not just have some feel good liar that will burn in hell tell them that they are saved. There is so much to being a Christian that is not taught or said that it is no wonder that waitasec and others don't get it. Hell most Christians don't nor do they want to because if they did they might actually have to change their ways.

It should come as no surprise about today's preachers.
Jesus warned that genuine wheat Christians would grow together over the centuries with fake weed/tares Christians until the time of the harvest, or the time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32.

Also, Luke wrote [Acts 20vs29,30] that wolf-like clergy, dressed in sheep's clothing, would fleece the flock of God.

Today we see exposed clergy [2nd Thess 2vs3-8] as the 'man of sin' the 'son of perdition' [utter destruction] as he sits in the 'temple' [or house of worship] of God showing himself that he is God when he is really anti-God.

 

[waitasec]

Within the Bible we are talking about the Constitution of the Mosaic law.
Under the Mosaic law, Leviticus [19vs18,34], is the Golden Rule or law.

so, what's you're point? the golden rule didn't originate with abraham...

What is the ultimatum about the Christ-like love defined at 1st Cor 13 vs4-6 ?

so what's your point?
there is no mention of christ...

Should there be a law or ultimatum against Galatians 5 vs22,23 ?

so, what's your point?
what can you do that i cannot?

 

[starlite]

so, what's you're point? the golden rule didn't originate with abraham...

The principle of the "golden rule" is embodied in so many of Jesus' teachings and in the way he conducted himself. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In fact, think about this...the “golden rule” requires us to take the initiative. It is not ‘Do to others as they do to you.’ But ‘You do to others just as you would have them do to you,’ and that is regardless of what they may do to you. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Archer]

what can you do that i cannot?

This seems to be a sticking point here. What exactly the point of the question?