how does a christian understand the bible?

[Archer]

Just thought I would add:
heresy
a : adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b : denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c : an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2
a : dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b : an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards

DOGMA a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

Funny thing is a lot of the dogma is heresy in and of itself.

 

[Archer]

Outhouse I made the offer to do this in the Christian DIR so we could cut the crap. You are not seeking and understanding and are simply carrying your personal war to this venue. If you have no legitimate posts to make that are not insulting and demeaning that is fine but you are not learning anything you are trying to teach Christians that the Bible is a book of lies.

Though it technically is not proselytizing it is the same thing and this is not a debate forum either. Questions are fine as is discussion but: "so now we have ghost holding pens and laying down script do we????? all because you dont now how to read allegorically.

the bible was written by ancient man for ancient man. if you knew the bible or history [even a little] you would understand this" Is not really appropriate and I can hit the little red button if you continue to act this way.

You seem to think Christians are dumb and uneducated and if you feel that way keep it in general because there are many Christians that are highly educated and they have no mental defect either, but guess what, they still believe and have faith.

first of all thats not what im teaching. this thread is about how christians undrerstand the bible. Im standing behind my christian background and education along with my knowledge of biblical history which you ignore.

The doors wide open here because there are 33,000+ different views on how to interpret the bible.

im explaining my interpretation based on reality and logic that the scholars have presented. You on the other hand dismiss what real work has done on the historical accuracy which has everything to do with proper interpretation. Your ignoring facts and twisting script to meet your personal needs in my opinion.



When did the truth become not appropriate

you go tell mommy if you dont like my post anytime you feel like it, because im following OP's guidelines not yours. YOu have no say so here at all, other then your opinion.



I have a chritian brother who is a biology proffessor, who is trying to get me on teaching computer science and history

you dont have a clue about me or my beliefs all you can do is assume.

I know more about the bible and the church and its dogma then anyone needs to know, the difference between you and me is one of us has a free mind with a firm grasp of the reality at hand and has a firm historical knowledge of the real creation of the bible.


go run and tell if it suits your needs


lets ask OP how she feels

waitasec do you have a problem with my views in your thread???

if these are not the most important key words to my problem with how christians uinderstand the bible.

SEE what were going to do is throw logic and reason right out the window, and blindly follow ancient mans myths where ever they may lead. Right or wrong, good or bad,,,, out of date or not! I will not lead and I will not think.

this is exactly why they outlawed the creation myth in schools. we want our children to think for themselves without knowledge being hidden blindly behind a book.

its this literal translation that gets you into trouble when the jews who wrote these fables ment them to be read allegorically

all in my opinion

This is what I am talking about. Christian DIR and the topic is: how does a christian understand the bible? I believe you claim not to be a Christian and furthermore you are aren't wanting to understand the Bible because you posts say as much.

 

[Archer]

Having a different take on how christians interpret the bible is what the thread is about.

its not about what you think or how you interpret the bible.

i would be almost bet i have been a christian longer then you.

try again but remember, this is not your thread and its not all about you.

since most christians dont have a clue on what ancient jewish writers were trying to say and since I have done historical work in this area, I cant see how your opinon matters more then mine.

enjoy

Your opinion is not necessarily the issue. Are you a Christian? This was a question posed to Christians.

Next as to the original post. All you have done is try to bait or derail this thread.

Just take a look at all of your posts.

How does Outhouse dismiss the Bible is not the thread topic.

 

[Archer]

wrong its a question of how christians understand the bible.

you just like to argue whether your right or wrong.

I have my interpretation you have yours. deal with it

Christian DIR that was suggested to get one persons questions answered not so you or anyone else could bash Christianity. Take your hate to General.

 

[waitasec]

Outhouse I made the offer to do this in the Christian DIR so we could cut the crap. You are not seeking and understanding and are simply carrying your personal war to this venue. If you have no legitimate posts to make that are not insulting and demeaning that is fine but you are not learning anything you are trying to teach Christians that the Bible is a book of lies.

Having a different take on how christians interpret the bible is what the thread is about.

its not about what you think or how you interpret the bible.

this is for the both of you...

i am really new to forums, in fact this is my first one...
i started out with honorable intentions but then fell into the trap of attacking the messenger and not the message. and thanks to archer he pointed that out to me and here we are...
having said that, from what i gather this thread is from an unbelievers stance. and believers are invited to discuss the way they understand the bible. occasionally we get drive by shooters and that's to be expected.

but lets be honest about our intentions. we want the other person to understand our point of view. but as i see it, it 's the atheists point of view that has proof and it's the believers point of view that has faith. clearly that is up for discussion too.
however, i believe outhouse has the best of intentions, and i fully agree with what he has said thus far. at the same time, i have to give credit where credit is due. archer, you are one of the most open minded christian believers i've come accross. and i from what i've read, you really seem to be honestly searching. but i have also noticed you are trying to protect the religious faith of others, and trust me, i get that. remember i was on the other side of the fence too. outhouse has a lot of knowledge about the history of the bible, and i believe him because i have found out the very same truths on my own journey.

i was watching a richard dawkins youtube video and what he said at the end of a speech really struck a chord with me. in the wake of 9/11, he said "lets all stop being so damned respectful". it is time to attack the message. as for me, i'm all for it. it's about finding that fine line between the message and the messenger.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I think there are a few parts of the Bible that are meant to be taken literally and others that definitely are not meant to be taken literally.

 

[waitasec]

I think there are a few parts of the Bible that are meant to be taken literally and others that definitely are not meant to be taken literally.

and how is that determined?

 

[Civil Shephard]

and how is that determined?

Well... take Zoogirls name for example. When you go to the Zoo you hear the lions roar and you know they want to eat you. But you don't take it literally unless some one throws you in the cage with them.

It's like an orange... it may look good to you... but you gotta actually taste it to take it literally as good.

Some times you can take thing literally and figuratively all at the same time. :help: So just mix a metaphor and drive on...

 

[Kathryn]

[QUOTEwell let me put it to you this way,
what is more honorable and dignified, doing good because you are commissioned to, or doing good for goodness sake?

][/QUOTE]

Why do you assume it has to be "either/or?" Haven't you ever heard of career choices and loving your job? We are commissioned to do good, and we accept that commission because we WANT to do good for our fellow man (and woman).

a sense of community is a sense of belonging. when i say the christian community i am speaking about the common thread christians have of belonging to a higher calling. for instance, when you're at a michael w smith concert, there is a sense of a higher calling, right?

I wouldn't know - I don't go to Michael W Smith concerts. The last concert I went to was George Strait - and it was in a suite with my husband's company, and there was a lot of beer drinking and two stepping in the aisle going on. That was a great feeling of community!

you're an exception to the rule...
most of religious are conservative, and the conservative party caters to those leaning to the right on those social hot button issues...
the bible belt is a red belt, so to speak.

I've lived in the Bible Belt most of my life, and my experiences differ markedly from yours from what I can tell. Sure, there's an obnoxious bunch of what I call "church people" (aka "Baptists!") that can get under my skin - but from my perspective, which just to point out is as valid as yours, most Christians I know are NOT of that ilk.

I'm Methodist - formerly Catholic. Especially in the American South, both those sub-categories of Christianity tend to be more "liberal" than Southern Baptists. And, believe it or not, there are a lot of "us" out there.

i disagree...
because the beacon of goodness has been victimized by judgmental people who so happen to follow this faith...has in the past and will again in the future.

There are judgmental people in every walk of life. Atheists are not immune to this common human failing. Just sayin'.

i never said your blessings took away from anyone, i'm just saying when the term blessed is used it usually implies a divine favor based on a haughty degree of self-importance.

Hmmm, sounds like emotional baggage to me. That's not my belief, and to be honest, it's an alien concept to me. I think most Christians I know would be surprised to hear that you think that's what they believe. In fact, I hate to say it but you sound downright judgmental.

i'm just calling it how i see it...
of course you don't really think that but that is how this faith is understood on the outside looking in.

Once again, I'll say that this sounds like emotional baggage to me. I know that you used to claim to be a Christian - didn't you even go to some sort of bible college? My GOSH, you were in with the worst of the lot! I think if I spent a year or two at a bible college, I'd be turned off to Christianity myself - so I don't really blame you.

But really, you should get out and mix more with some Christians who are NOT fundamentalist loonies. I think this would at least balance out some of your skewered views of Christians in general.

i am not alone. faith is a stick in the wheel of progress.
you think this idea i have comes from no where? really?

:slap: Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I never said anything like this.

No, you're not alone in your OPINION. That's what it is - an opinion. Others hold opinions which differ from yours.

You think those opinions come from nowhere? Really?

(That didn't sit right, did it? Stop doing it to me.)

i can judge you by the choices you make not on who you are...and i am sure we both agree to that

Absolutely.

:camp:
Kum Bay Yah!

 

[Kathryn]

and how is that determined?

With common sense. When you read the bible, take into consideration the following:

1. Literary style

2. Historical setting

3. Intended audience

4. Original language

That's a good start in determining whether a book or passage is intended to be taken literally or figuratively - or whether or not it applies to your particular situation.

 

[Archer]

With common sense. When you read the bible, take into consideration the following:

1. Literary style

2. Historical setting

3. Intended audience

4. Original language

That's a good start in determining whether a book or passage is intended to be taken literally or figuratively - or whether or not it applies to your particular situation.

Good guide. I have seen the Bible twisted and made an evil book by those wishing to push their agenda. I would add to your post saying that after the 4 things you mentioned that the intent of the reader is a big thing.

A person can read the Bible and come up with some twisted things when that is their intent. I gave my daughter and example of this. I told her that if I were in the Klan I could easily twist the Bible to control an immature and uneducated person (in the Lord) to make them believe in seperation of races. I could show them where God separated us and made us all different. From there I could go to the rules of war and Judges to justify murdering a Black man and raping his wife and daughter in the name of the Lord.

The Intent of the reader is very important and Familiarity of scripture is important for anyone that is a Christian. I have told my daughter to question everything and look for other instances in the Bible concerning similar situations.

I have taught her to use the concordance and accompanying Bible word dictionary/lexicon. I do not want her falling for blatant lies.

So what I am saying is don't just use one liners because chapter and verse were simply put in there for reference. Taking a verse out of context is a vary dangerous thing.

Study the Bible to learn read the Bible to relax.

 

[Kathryn]

EXCELLENT advice, Archer! I am going to add your "Intent of the reader" to my list!

 

[starlite]

That is the correct statement,

Romans 10:17 says, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible.

I believe that God is the Author of the Bible and that he used the Holy Spirit to direct the writing of it...like when a businessman uses his secretary to write letters for him.

 

[starlite]

The NT says faith comes by hearing the Word of God, how many times have you read it? The understanding of the NT comes from the living Word of God.

Yes faith does follow the thing heard...so a person must first find out what the Bible says, and then his conviction will be strengthened if he examines it carefully so as to be convinced of its reliability. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rom. 10:10: “With the heart one exercises faith.” By meditating on godly things to build up appreciation for them, a person impresses them on his figurative heart. Faith is strengthened when a person acts on God’s promises and then sees the evidence of God’s blessing on what he has done.—Psalm 106:9-12.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For example: Perhaps you have a friend of whom you would say: ‘I trust that man. I can count on him to keep his word; and I know that if I have a problem, he will come to my help.’ It is not likely that you would be saying that about anyone you met for the first time yesterday, is it? He would have to be someone with whom you had long association, someone who had proved his dependability time and again. It is similar with religious faith. To have faith, you need to take time to get to know God and his way of doing things.[/FONT]

 

[starlite]

lets talk

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jesus assured his apostles that understanding God&#8217;s Word was within their reach. How so? Jesus explained: &#8220;The helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things.&#8221; (John 14:26) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
How can you receive God&#8217;s holy spirit? You have to ask for it in faith. In fact, you may need to ask persistently. &#8220;Keep on asking, and it will be given you,&#8221; said Jesus. That active force can help you to grasp the meaning of the inspired words written down in the Bible thousands of years ago. God&#8217;s spirit can also give you the wisdom needed to apply the Bible&#8217;s powerful message in your life.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Each time you sit down to read the Bible, pray to God, asking him for holy spirit to help you understand his Word. We need to pray not only for the mental ability to comprehend what is written but also for the heart attitude that will allow us to accept it. To understand the Bible, we need to be receptive to what is true.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Reading the Bible will bring us knowledge. Knowledge, however, is not enough. Knowledge means, simply, acquaintance or familiarity with facts, gained by observation and experience or by reading and study. Knowledge is basic; without it we are ignorant. But wisdom, means the putting of knowledge to work in a way that brings good results. Where, then, does understanding fit in? Understanding means to see facts as they relate to one another. It implies discernment and insight, seeing into the whys and wherefores of a matter. With understanding we see, not just the isolated points of a matter, but the whole picture. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Understanding helps us both in gaining knowledge and in exercising wisdom. How? Because the understanding person is able to relate new facts to previous knowledge, see where they connect up and fit in. By his tying them in with previous knowledge the new facts make a lasting impression on his mind and are remembered. Besides this, the understanding person sees things in sharper focus. He sees how they relate to God and his purposes and how they affect himself. So understanding establishes knowledge, makes it more firm. A person may read in the Bible that he should do a certain thing. Because it is in the Bible, he accepts this knowledge as instruction from God and does it. This is the course of wisdom. But if he fortifies this wisdom with increased understanding, learning why God wants such an action performed, the purpose it serves, how it relates to God&#8217;s other purposes, then his conviction and resolve to continue on in faithful performance is greatly strengthened. [/FONT]

 

[waitasec]

Why do you assume it has to be "either/or?" Haven't you ever heard of career choices and loving your job? We are commissioned to do good, and we accept that commission because we WANT to do good for our fellow man (and woman).

well isn't it the general consensus in this particular belief only good can come from god?

I wouldn't know - I don't go to Michael W Smith concerts. The last concert I went to was George Strait - and it was in a suite with my husband's company, and there was a lot of beer drinking and two stepping in the aisle going on. That was a great feeling of community!

ha ha, i couldn't think of anyone else...

if we were to be held accountable towards each other for the sake of fairness rather than being accountable to a supreme deity our responsibilities would be straight forward and not so ambiguous. when i say a sense of community, i mean going to church on sunday; correct me if i'm wrong i don't want to put words in your mouth, but isn't there a sense of a higher purpose? a calling from god? if that were true, every religious person from every religion has this sense of a higher purpose. right? and these monotheistic religions each believe they have the right faith. and within each faith there are certain guidelines; how men are revered and women are subordinate or the approach to same sex marriages, for example. career choices and loving your job isn't really what i'm talking about. i'm talking about the foundation for which the religious faithful view morality. and these ideals all come from ancient text from a time when people where ignorant of the world around them.

I've lived in the Bible Belt most of my life, and my experiences differ markedly from yours from what I can tell. Sure, there's an obnoxious bunch of what I call "church people" (aka "Baptists!") that can get under my skin - but from my perspective, which just to point out is as valid as yours, most Christians I know are NOT of that ilk.
I'm Methodist - formerly Catholic. Especially in the American South, both those sub-categories of Christianity tend to be more "liberal" than Southern Baptists. And, believe it or not, there are a lot of "us" out there.

ok, so let me ask you this. why do you think, in the field of science and math, when compared to the rest of the world, we rank 17th and 25th respectively? you do realize that between 40 and 45% of the US population still thinks this planet is less than 10,000 yrs old and we were created and not evolved. do you think the US will be able to compete in a world that is more developed in the sciences when we are falling behind? it is a scary thought. check this out, bagdad was the intellectual mecca of the world between 800 and 1100 AD and during that time advances in biology, cosmology and math were made during that time. however, a religious philosopher hamid al-ghazali, stated mathematics was the work of the devil and this region has not been able to recover since.

There are judgmental people in every walk of life. Atheists are not immune to this common human failing. Just sayin'.

i agree. people are people. it's just strange when really nice people do ugly things in the name of god.

Hmmm, sounds like emotional baggage to me. That's not my belief, and to be honest, it's an alien concept to me. I think most Christians I know would be surprised to hear that you think that's what they believe. In fact, I hate to say it but you sound downright judgmental.

blessed implies a divine favor. are the starving children around the world unblessed or unlucky? and you can't have it both ways, as i hope you're getting the gist of what i am saying.

But really, you should get out and mix more with some Christians who are NOT fundamentalist loonies. I think this would at least balance out some of your skewered views of Christians in general.

well to me any level of religious faith is dangerous, and to be honest, i don't want to meet christians because their basic philosophy of life is the polar opposite of mine and i couldn't respect them, so why go there.

:slap: Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I never said anything like this.

you did say it seems as though i had "bad experiences with some Christians" but doesn't everybody? :sarcastic

No, you're not alone in your OPINION. That's what it is - an opinion. Others hold opinions which differ from yours.

You think those opinions come from nowhere? Really?

(That didn't sit right, did it? Stop doing it to me.)

well maybe i'm slow but i didn't have a problem with that statement.
because i have facts to back up my opinion as everyone should.

 

[waitasec]

Well... take Zoogirls name for example. When you go to the Zoo you hear the lions roar and you know they want to eat you. But you don't take it literally unless some one throws you in the cage with them.

It's like an orange... it may look good to you... but you gotta actually taste it to take it literally as good.

Some times you can take thing literally and figuratively all at the same time. :help: So just mix a metaphor and drive on...

but isn't the bible supposed to be the eternal word? so why would somethings be understood as a metaphor and others not? for instance, the creation story?
many believe it is literal and others do not...
or the stories where god condones genocide, slavery, human trafficking, rape...
are those to be taken literal or not?

 

[starlite]

many believe it is literal and others do not...

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The religious organization I belong to, accepts both the Greek and the Hebrew Scriptures and takes them literally except where the expressions or settings obviously indicate that they are figurative or symbolic. [/FONT]

 

[waitasec]

With common sense. When you read the bible, take into consideration the following:

1. Literary style

2. Historical setting

3. Intended audience

4. Original language

That's a good start in determining whether a book or passage is intended to be taken literally or figuratively - or whether or not it applies to your particular situation.

even within the boundaries of what we call christian faith there are disagreements between the sects based on this criteria.
for instance, are you aware that the OT in your bible is not the same as the tanakh? and this is the supposed to be the basis for the christian faith.
how do you interpret the book of mormon for instance. christians believe the bible is complete and do not accept the book of mormon, why not?
the NT is the same thing to the tanakh as the the book of mormon is to the NT...for mormons. so why make that judgement call as the general understanding of the book of mormon?
please don't say your are not here to judge others beliefs, if this is what one believes, they already have judged others beliefs...
i'm not trying to put words in your mouth, can you deny the majority of the people who are followers of the NT exclusively believe this?

 

[waitasec]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The religious organization I belong to, accepts both the Greek and the Hebrew Scriptures and takes them literally except where the expressions or settings obviously indicate that they are figurative or symbolic. [/FONT]

the religious organization you belong to...but can you see not everyone believes the same as you? that is the point i am making.

do you take the creation story literally or metaphorically?
and have you read the tanakh, the basis of the christian faith?