How does Feminism view Men?

[Laika]

"We" were already won over. A century ago. That there is lingering sexism is not surprising, but I do not think it will be solved by coddling the precious feelings of the worst offenders. They should be taught what being a decent human being is, and from an early age. The condition has never changed, only the shape of the challenge.

Are you suggesting we use coercion to establish social norms of the "correct" behaviour for men and make feminism compulsory on them? I'm not saying your wrong (as I think it's logical and even reasonable), but the ethical implications that we cand and should "indoctorinate" men and boys to behave a certian way are worth discussing.

 

[Politesse]

I don't call it indoctrination to raise a child well.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Much of the literature defines feminism as being about equal rights for women or equality between the sexes.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_and_equality

As a member of your own group, you can define yourself however you want. It doesn't necessarily make it true though.

 

[Akivah]

my understanding of feminism is limited and the "man hating feminist" is a common sterotype (which I assume your poll and OP were intending to address). to the best of my knowledge, that is not the reality.

I've been doing some reading and listening. There is Irina Dunn's statement that "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle."which is the slogan of feminism. I've been seeing videos in which Feminists are hostile to men or anti-feminist females are speaking out against the hostility and intolerance of modern feminism.

So I was wondering what feminists on this board think.

 

[dust1n]

As a member of your own group, you can define yourself however you want. It doesn't necessarily make it true though.

Not sure what you mean? Feminism is basically a philosophical system. Generally, existentialism is more or less defined as a thought system where free will is established without the use of a God, in order to maintain responsibility for ones actions. I could contend that this is not true, but I also have no idea what it means for a philosophical system to be about something which it doesn't maintain...

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Not sure what you mean? Feminism is basically a philosophical system. Generally, existentialism is more or less defined as a thought system where free will is established without the use of a God, in order to maintain responsibility for ones actions. I could contend that this is not true, but I also have no idea what it means for a philosophical system to be about something which it doesn't maintain...

I was merely remarking on the fact that while nearly all feminists point to equality as their fundamental goal, if you look at their behavior and rhetoric from an objective angle, many of them aren't actually concerned with equality, but of expansion of female rights and privilege exclusively.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Equal but how do we assign various duties to them?

Why do you think we need to.
individuals assign their own actions to their own circumstances.

 

[Thana]

I was merely remarking on the fact that while nearly all feminists point to equality as their fundamental goal, if you look at their behavior and rhetoric from an objective angle, many of them aren't actually concerned with equality, but of expansion of female rights and privilege exclusively.

But that's equality no? Since female rights are still not equal and so of course to gain equality you've got to bring female rights up to par with men's rights so it's reasonable that that is where a lot of the focus is at.

 

[Revoltingest]

If someone feels that it is fair to generalize about the opposite gender, based only on gender, I don't see how they are a feminist at all. The fight is for gender equality, not a reversal of roles. The word "feminist" is not actually a good description of the movement; the man who coined it disapproved of its goals.

Feminists needn't be perfect in order to be feminist.
From what I hear (from feminists) is that even MRAs can be imperfect.
Everyone can become better than they are.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

But that's equality no? Since female rights are still not equal and so of course to gain equality you've got to bring female rights up to par with men's rights so it's reasonable that that is where a lot of the focus is at.

This. This is what I take issue with. I don't like this simplistic view, and it's not accurate.

 

[dust1n]

I was merely remarking on the fact that while nearly all feminists point to equality as their fundamental goal, if you look at their behavior and rhetoric from an objective angle, many of them aren't actually concerned with equality, but of expansion of female rights and privilege exclusively.

So, what objective angle have you used going about doing this?

 

[dust1n]

I've been doing some reading and listening. There is Irina Dunn's statement that "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle."which is the slogan of feminism.

Not really a slogan, but um, it seems to being saying women don't need men necessarily. Why, what did you make of it?

I've been seeing videos in which Feminists are hostile to men or anti-feminist females are speaking out against the hostility and intolerance of modern feminism.

So I take it no books, and no videos where feminists are not hostile to men, or females speaking out hostilities but are still feminists? Nothing like that? Just out of curiosity, how accurate do you think my conception of Zionism would be if I've been seeing videos in which Zionists are to hostile to Palestinians, or made by Jews Against Zionism?

 

[Thana]

This. This is what I take issue with. I don't like this simplistic view, and it's not accurate.

Of course it's simplistic, I'm not going to sit here and type out an essay on inequality but I don't see what I said that wasn't true.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course it's simplistic, I'm not going to sit here and type out an essay on inequality but I don't see what I said that wasn't true.

One portion up for dispute was....
".... got to bring female rights up to par with men's rights...."
Women actually have some rights superior to mean, eg, dower rights, exemption from the draft, child custody, friend of the court treatment.
To pursue "equality of rights" avoids the judgement call on relative troubles.
And then, it's also about more than rights, but also improved gender roles in society.

 

[Thana]

One portion up for dispute was....
".... got to bring female rights up to par with men's rights...."
Women actually have some rights superior to mean, eg, dower rights, exemption from the draft, child custody, friend of the court treatment.
To pursue "equality of rights" avoids the judgement call on relative troubles.
And then, it's also about more than rights, but also gender roles in society.

Isn't being exempt from the draft another show of inequality for women?
And I wasn't talking about rights as in laws but just in a general sense (that which is morally correct, just, or honourable) and also I'm not sure if we (Australia/America) have the same laws. I'd have to look into it but I don't have time this morning.

 

[Revoltingest]

Isn't being exempt from the draft another show of inequality for women?

Aye, it is indeed an inequality....one which I wish I'd had.
The threat of being sent to Viet Nam to kill or be killed wasn't a desirable thing.
I had draft lottery# 34, & would've moved to Canuckistan to avoid it (a criminal act)
had Nixon not cancelled the draft in the nick of time.

And I wasn't talking about rights as in laws but just in a general sense (that which is morally correct, just, or honourable) and also I'm not sure if we (Australia/America) have the same laws. I'd have to look into it but I don't have time this morning.

It's morning where you are?
How perverse!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Depends on the subset of feminism. Much of it, 2nd wave and on, seems to view males as an oppressor class. They basically applied neo-Marxist theory to it and switched out capitalists for men/males. But there's more libertarian forms of feminism.

 

[Madhuri]

Traditionally men have been oppressors but as a feminist, I believe that men and women should be equals/partners. I voted 'partner'.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

As
A) Oppressors
B) Competitors
C) Partners

Seems to depend on the particular agenda of any particular feminist. The ideology, as a whole, is complex and varied enough that self-described feminists encompass all these views.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Men are expected to be dominant, aggressive and repress their emotions. They are viewed as more inherently sexual than women. Men have more power culturally than women but the pressures of masculinity can be oppressive too.

Depends if you mean 1st, 2nd or insane 3rd Wave Feminism.

Radical second-wave feminism is waay worse than third-wave feminism.