How does your faith rationalize god allowing the existence of evil, death, and suffering?

[anonymous9887]

Out of curiosity, why does that matter? If I buy every copy of a fictional story, and all the copies are identical, does that make it nonfiction?

Well it's kind of to actually prove on paper that their manuscripts are forged at a later date than muhammad. This was actually I new scholarly research that put it in an easy format to understand.

 

[anonymous9887]

Nice copout my friend. I really respect your ability to do that.

And of course not. Nevertheless, you quoted a manuscript that is 99% complete.

Paul, you told me you look at papyrus, you quoted p52, the oldest NT manuscript. Its not even a page, its as small as a business card. With what audacity are you asking me about complete Quran manuscripts?

And the Quranic culture is to memorise it. Millions memorise it. Its so easy to reconcile if you have 1000 people who have memorised it. Even if you have two people.

Now tell me. How about prodding further with my questions? NOpe, you cant answer.

Now to cop out, ask me another question my friend. Go ahead.

One of the problems with the memorization theory is.
If the earliest fragments are not complete.
Then the manuscripts that have authority are not complete and varies from the fragments how can you be so sure that the Qur'an is correct?
If you have variants from the earliest manuscripts to the older manuscripts how can we be sure that the older are not reliable?
What evidence can you provide that the people who memorized the Qur'an memorized it correctly if the Qur'an that carries more authority varies from the fragments?

 

[firedragon]

One of the problems with the memorization theory is.

1. Memorisation is not a theory. We live it personally mate. You must understand that first.
2. What you say next are completely irrelevant to this prologue of yours.

If the earliest fragments are not complete.
Then the manuscripts that have authority are not complete and varies from the fragments how can you be so sure that the Qur'an is correct?

They dont vary.

If you have variants from the earliest manuscripts to the older manuscripts how can we be sure that the older are not reliable?

They dont vary like that.

What evidence can you provide that the people who memorized the Qur'an memorized it correctly if the Qur'an that carries more authority varies from the fragments?

They dont vary like that.

There are variants, but they are not the way you pose it. Study a bit further.

 

[anonymous9887]

1. Memorisation is not a theory. We live it personally mate. You must understand that first.
2. What you say next are completely irrelevant to this prologue of yours.



They dont vary.



They dont vary like that.



They dont vary like that.

There are variants, but they are not the way you pose it. Study a bit further.

Ok.
So if they have great memory and you said 2 people can get it 100% correct.
Why would the manuscripts that carry authority vary from those closer to Muhammad. It shows that with the fragments that are available they had variants, how can we trust the rest written?

So how many differences are there from the fragments and the Qur'an that carries more authority that is 99% complete.

 

[firedragon]

Ok.
So if they have great memory and you said 2 people can get it 100% correct.
Why would the manuscripts that carry authority vary from those closer to Muhammad. It shows that with the fragments that are available they had variants, how can we trust the rest written?

So how many differences are there from the fragments and the Qur'an that carries more authority that is 99% complete.

I think repeating the same answer a dozen times will make you see it.

They dont vary like that.

So how many differences are there from the fragments and the Qur'an that carries more authority that is 99% complete.

None.

 

[Latewish]

This is a question for everyone who has a god including myself have to answer.
Why does your god or gods allow evil, suffering, and death?
Did this originate with gods initial plan?
Did god just create us and abandon us?
If our god(or gods)is good why are all these evil things still happening?
We can all criticize our texts and spit on other people's faith but does your own religion answer this difficult question?

The reasoning behind these questions Is basically being comfortable with these responses.
God created us to die?
God created us to test us?
God created us to suffer?

none of the sound plausible to me. These do not sound like a good god to me.

Please Explain your faith.

This world is a filter, good and evil are the substance used to sort good people from bad, death is the end of the filtering process, the precious ones are put in paradise and the waste is thrown into the fire (hell) Yes, it's a test. Life is an experience, good and evil, hard and soft, bitter and sweet, life is a big school. In the end evil and good will be separated and no more death, there will be no suffering and evil in paradise and no good and comfort in hell. If you go to paradise you will be happy and thankful for the comfort and the good you will find in it, because you experienced evil and suffering in this life, and if you go to hell you will be sad and sorry that you lost good and comfort and will never have them again.

 

[anonymous9887]

This is also SYMBOLIC.

It is not saying God literally became Jesus.

If you read it all, it says he came from the father. Full of grace and truth. He never was God.

He was a Son as said, just like we are. He was sent by God as a Prophet.

Can you explain Surah 3:6

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I tell you what, why don't we all commit suicide .. then we can all go to sleep forever (according to you) and there will be no more suffering. Does that make sense??

Is a healthy person suffering ?______
When Jesus resurrected people he brought them back to healthy physical life on earth.
Revelation 22:2 is talking about the healing of Earth's nations. Does healing mean suffering or health ?
Revelation 22:2 is in fulfillment to God's promise to father Abraham according to Genesis 12:3 and Genesis 22:18
Jesus will bring an end to all suffering - Isaiah 33:24 - No one will say, " I am sick....."
Only the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7, so as the punishment for Adam was death, so 'eternal death' ( destruction ) will be only for the wicked.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hades is mentioned in Matthew's. Isn't it funny that God reveals about a Greek God? Don't you see that it's a human cross belief?
Bible doesn't portray God as tyrant? Paul are you ignoring my posts?
God is a child killer in the Bible. He is a pubisher just to test us. He starves people to death as punishment and test. He commands murder of all women and children. Plunder.
What are you saying? This is why I asked you to read up on marcion remember?

We are drawn out by our own desires - James 1:13-15
For the sake of the righteous, the words from Jesus' mouth will only destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:11; Revelation 19:14-16; Psalms 92:7

Hades/ haides is the Greek for the Hebrew word sheol.
The hades of Scripture is Not the same hades of Greek religious myth.
The Bible's hell ( hades/sheol ) is simply the ' temporary stone-cold grave ' for the sleeping dead until the dead are resurrected out of hades - Revelation 20:13-14
The dead sleep in death - Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:14
When the Jews mixed with the Greeks they adopted their philosophies and theories as being Scripture when they are Not Scripture.
Teaching a non-biblical hades as Scripture does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes the wrong teachings as wrong

 

[firedragon]

We are drawn out by our own desires - James 1:13-15
For the sake of the righteous, the words from Jesus' mouth will only destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:11; Revelation 19:14-16; Psalms 92:7

Hades/ haides is the Greek for the Hebrew word sheol.
The hades of Scripture is Not the same hades of Greek religious myth.
The Bible's hell ( hades/sheol ) is simply the ' temporary stone-cold grave ' for the sleeping dead until the dead are resurrected out of hades - Revelation 20:13-14
The dead sleep in death - Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:14
When the Jews mixed with the Greeks they adopted their philosophies and theories as being Scripture when they are Not Scripture.
Teaching a non-biblical hades as Scripture does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes the wrong teachings as wrong

Good that someone has done some studies.
Of course. Hadou=Hades=Sheol. Thats in our English thinking. Hadou and Hadeen in Greek can be Sheol. But look at the references for Hadees in Greek mate, the proper name for Hades. Try revelations 6:8 and 20. I cant remember the exact verse in revelations 20. You will have several mentions of Hades, the person Hades.

When you debate with some who some times give you cr(ap and pretend, you give them a clue to go look for varying things for their own good. That's what I did.

Cheers.

 

[anonymous9887]

Good that someone has done some studies.
Of course. Hadou=Hades=Sheol. Thats in our English thinking. Hadou and Hadeen in Greek can be Sheol. But look at the references for Hadees in Greek mate, the proper name for Hades. Try revelations 6:8 and 20. I cant remember the exact verse in revelations 20. You will have several mentions of Hades, the person Hades.

When you debate with some who some times give you cr(ap and pretend, you give them a clue to go look for varying things for their own good. That's what I did.

Cheers.

How come you refuse to answer what Surah 3:6 means?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Good that someone has done some studies.
Of course. Hadou=Hades=Sheol. Thats in our English thinking. Hadou and Hadeen in Greek can be Sheol. But look at the references for Hadees in Greek mate, the proper name for Hades. Try revelations 6:8 and 20. I cant remember the exact verse in revelations 20. You will have several mentions of Hades, the person Hades.
When you debate with some who some times give you cr(ap and pretend, you give them a clue to go look for varying things for their own good. That's what I did.
Cheers.

Cheers to you in return, and thank you for replying.
Where at Revelation 6:8 is hades mentioned as a real person ? The grave ( Hades ) was following after Death ( Death was the riders name on the symbolic pale horse )
The grave does Not literally follow the person of death. We know when we die, at death, we go to the grave ( even if the grave is the ocean, etc. )

Do you have Revelation 20:13-14 in mind ?______
Please notice that everyone in biblical hell (grave) is ' delivered up' (KJV ) meaning resurrected out of biblical hell/ hades.
Then, emptied-out hell/hades is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell/hades.
So, biblical hell/hades is simply mankind's temporary grave for the sleeping dead until resurrected out of the Bible's hell/hades.- Revelation 1:18

 

[firedragon]

Cheers to you in return, and thank you for replying.
Where at Revelation 6:8 is hades mentioned as a real person ? The grave ( Hades ) was following after Death ( Death was the riders name on the symbolic pale horse )
The grave does Not literally follow the person of death. We know when we die, at death, we go to the grave ( even if the grave is the ocean, etc. )

Do you have Revelation 20:13-14 in mind ?______
Please notice that everyone in biblical hell (grave) is ' delivered up' (KJV ) meaning resurrected out of biblical hell/ hades.
Then, emptied-out hell/hades is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell/hades.
So, biblical hell/hades is simply mankind's temporary grave for the sleeping dead until resurrected out of the Bible's hell/hades.- Revelation 1:18

You could always translate Hades as hell. If you wish to say the rider is death or grave I am okay with it. But generally most scholars identify Revelations 6:8 and Revelations 20 to depict the Hades. As I already said, Its not the Greek words Hadeen and Hadow, its Hadees. A lot of translations left it as Hades due to this.