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How does your faith rationalize god allowing the existence of evil, death, and suffering?

firedragon

Veteran Member

Because the Quran follows the solar calendar, and indicates the lunar calendar only. Lunar calendar/Islamic calendar was introduced later, after the prophet Muhammeds death. At that time years had names, not numbers.

Anyway, the Quran mentions the singular word for day, Yawm in its singular form exactly 365 times. Same way, Shahr or month is mentioned exactly 12 times. Also the Quran speaks of the sun going towards the solar apex while earth swims along while rotating around its own axis. While the books is so specific, I cant be a hypocrite and follow the traditional Islamic calendar.

Peace.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Because the Quran follows the solar calendar, and indicates the lunar calendar only. Lunar calendar/Islamic calendar was introduced later, after the prophet Muhammeds death. At that time years had names, not numbers.

Anyway, the Quran mentions the singular word for day, Yawm in its singular form exactly 365 times. Same way, Shahr or month is mentioned exactly 12 times. Also the Quran speaks of the sun going towards the solar apex while earth swims along while rotating around its own axis. While the books is so specific, I cant be a hypocrite and follow the traditional Islamic calendar.

Peace.

I see.

:)
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
This is not totally correct.
When the article is missing, its an attribute. In fact, Kai theos en ho logos will mean And divine was the word, or Godly.

Also, pros does not have to be literally translated to toward, it can be with as well.
That is an interpretation, but theos is still a noun not an adjective.
Like acts 28:6 for example.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Nice copout my friend. I really respect your ability to do that.

And of course not. Nevertheless, you quoted a manuscript that is 99% complete.

Paul, you told me you look at papyrus, you quoted p52, the oldest NT manuscript. Its not even a page, its as small as a business card. With what audacity are you asking me about complete Quran manuscripts?

And the Quranic culture is to memorise it. Millions memorise it. Its so easy to reconcile if you have 1000 people who have memorised it. Even if you have two people.

Now tell me. How about prodding further with my questions? NOpe, you cant answer.

Now to cop out, ask me another question my friend. Go ahead.
Even if 1000 people quoted the scriptures and wrote it from memory there would be variants..

So the earliest manuscript is not complete?
That's odd.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Name them? What do you mean? They are already named by someone. And they have been dated already?

What are you asking about?
What I mean for each quranic manuscript I mentioned please provide the date, variants (are those manuscripts all alike), are they all complete. Are the earliest fragments identical to the other more complete manuscripts. Plain yes or no will do.
 
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anonymous9887

bible reader

So I haven't got a response from you guys regarding the manuscripts.

What I want to know
- the dating of the manuscripts
- Are all the manuscripts identical if not how many variants and why?
- are any of the manuscripts complete 100%

MANUSCRIPTS
- SAMMARQAND
- MA'IL QUR'AN
- PETROPOLITANUS
- HUSSEINI
- SANA
- TOPKAPI

DO THE EARLIEST FRAGMENTS MATCH UP TO THE OTHER MANUSCRIPTS?

Also the time period muhammad lived, and what was the time period Uthman lived please?
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
What I mean for each quranic manuscript I mentioned please provide the date, variants (are those manuscripts all alike), are they all complete. Are the earliest fragments identical to the other more complete manuscripts. Plain yes or no will do.

They are identical. Scripts change. Hijazi kufic.
No they are not complete. Some 99% and some fragments.

I answered earlier.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
So I haven't got a response from you guys regarding the manuscripts.

What I want to know
- the dating of the manuscripts
- Are all the manuscripts identical if not how many variants and why?
- are any of the manuscripts complete 100%

MANUSCRIPTS
- SAMMARQAND
- MA'IL QUR'AN
- PETROPOLITANUS
- HUSSEINI
- SANA
- TOPKAPI

DO THE EARLIEST FRAGMENTS MATCH UP TO THE OTHER MANUSCRIPTS?

Also the time period muhammad lived, and what was the time period Uthman lived please?

Muhammed died 632. Usman reigned 650.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
So I haven't got a response from you guys regarding the manuscripts.

What I want to know
- the dating of the manuscripts
- Are all the manuscripts identical if not how many variants and why?
- are any of the manuscripts complete 100%

MANUSCRIPTS
- SAMMARQAND
- MA'IL QUR'AN
- PETROPOLITANUS
- HUSSEINI
- SANA
- TOPKAPI

DO THE EARLIEST FRAGMENTS MATCH UP TO THE OTHER MANUSCRIPTS?

Also the time period muhammad lived, and what was the time period Uthman lived please?

We haven't got a response from you u in any damn thing mate.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Even if 1000 people quoted the scriptures and wrote it from memory there would be variants..

So the earliest manuscript is not complete?
That's odd.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

BTW again and again I say that the earliest Bible manuscript is a business card size papyrus. What's odd is that you mentioned as one of your references. P52.

Abnormal.

Cheers.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

BTW again and again I say that the earliest Bible manuscript is a business card size papyrus. What's odd is that you mentioned as one of your references. P52.

Abnormal.

Cheers.
I'm sure it's probably been done or maybe not. If 10 people that memorized the quran today wrote it down straight from memory, are you saying there would be not a single difference?
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
They are identical. Scripts change. Hijazi kufic.
No they are not complete. Some 99% and some fragments.

I answered earlier.
Btw no disrespect but I was kind of asking Jabar, to see what he says, maybe he would answer the questions fully in a response in detail.

My bad I guess I did say you guys. But I've been kind of waiting for Jabars response.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I'm sure it's probably been done or maybe not. If 10 people that memorized the quran today wrote it down straight from memory, are you saying there would be not a single difference?

Mate. We have done this. Many times. Too many times to count.

Just two people can get it 100% right. But the science is not that. Its Qiraat, reading, even if there is a variant between two people, its really easy to reconcile because when two Harizs get together the memory bells reconcile easily. If there are 3, it makes it completely infallible.

If there are ten, there is no question about it.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
This is a question for everyone who has a god including myself have to answer.
Why does your god or gods allow evil, suffering, and death?

Free will.
A desire by creation to experience a world without God as if that is reality.
In Reality, it is an illusion.

Did this originate with gods initial plan?

No.

Did god just create us and abandon us?

No

If our god(or gods)is good why are all these evil things still happening?

Already answered above. Again: this is the desire of creation and allowance of Free Will.
The Way out of this self made mess/hell was provided before the illusion (entire universe) was established, but the desire was great enough to establish the universe. In essence, the Way out, the undoing has already occurred, but due to perception of self, it appears as if there is still a lot more to come before any undoing is realized. In Reality, it is realized already.

We can all criticize our texts and spit on other people's faith but does your own religion answer this difficult question?

Not really a religion, but yes.
I fully believe the Knowledge of this is within All, and not kept secret. But it can be incredibly challenging as the denial around "I made this, I want this (existence without God)" is very strong. Treacherous in fact.

The reasoning behind these questions Is basically being comfortable with these responses.
God created us to die?

Not accurate. Creation cannot die (in Reality).

God created us to test us?

Not remotely accurate. The 'testing' concept comes from remembrance of Self (as God's) and desire to stay consistent with that realization. When seen as very challenging to stay consistent, the 'test' concept takes shape. The test is really upon us, but is not entirely a faulty concept, just that it is not remotely accurate to suggest the Father has placed the test upon us.

God created us to suffer?

Not remotely accurate. A (or our) desire to be 'without God' is the desire to suffer, but of course not spun that way when first considering the notion of being without God. Instead seen as a way to live 'freely' or experience existence without (unconditional) Love.

none of the sound plausible to me. These do not sound like a good god to me.

Please Explain your faith.

An attempt to be without God initiates an idea (universal paradigm) that God has opposition / an opposite. This is then projected onto the Father as if God is opposing Creation. God's Answer (the Holy Spirit or Voice of God) is then perceived as threatening a way of life that seeks freedom (from God). Because of the profound confusion that permeates the universal paradigm, when not only is God seen as separate from Creation, but Creation is separate from Itself (and all things), then all that is existing (foremost God) plus all things perceived as existing (but are actually illusionary) are a threat to Self: a double edged sword, or a possible defense that could provide support but are known to have side effects that harm the (little) self, and could be used as an attack because, as the logic goes, a good offense makes for a great defense. The Holy Spirit reminds All (all the time) that within is Christ, or God's perfect Creation and that it is not possible to be without God (Supreme Love). As this may not be understood as the Answer it is, to the self-made problem, then forgiveness becomes the coinciding/alternative solution or the only sane defense. In Reality, no one needs forgiveness for God is not insane and does not witness to the opposition, the suffering, the guilt, the fear. But seeing that we do (or perhaps more accurate to say I do), then forgiveness overcomes this, but does depend on utilizing it in all situations and with sense of consistency. Forgiveness overlooks the perceived error in others by addressing the fundamental error made by own self (the desire to be without God), realizing that is not possible and in Reality has never occurred. Takes an illusion (or mis-creation) to see world without God as remotely possible, or perceived as reality. Faith and Reason cannot be lost, and so it becomes a matter of where they are being applied. Which Master are they serving?

Nothing Real can be threatened
Nothing unreal exists
Herein lies the Peace of God.
 
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