How does your religion view masturbation?

[philbo]

I don't think God is akin to a parent in the sense you are using it also I don't think that it's a good analogy to compare something that is private/personal like sexuality to showing it off anywhere. Playing with your analogy though, I take it you would have no problems having sex in front of your parents with a loved one, right? Same concept to me.

Not to mention that at any one time he's going to be watching hundreds of millions of people on the loo. <shudder>

Who'd want to be omniscient, anyway?

 

[oldbadger]

Such questions stump me. All I know is that six or seven times a day are far too few to appreciably reduce any sane person's horniness.

6 or 7 times a day? Blimey! Even at 15 I couldn't have managed a third of that. :sad:

But then, I might not fit your def of 'sane'.

 

[Sunstone]

6 or 7 times a day? Blimey! Even at 15 I couldn't have managed a third of that. :sad:

As you know, I was exaggerating. But I have a true story for you. A friend of mine -- a friend who strikes me as unusually honest -- tells me that, in his mid-teens, he went 15 rounds during a single 24 hour period.


Afterwards there was naturally no course left to him in life but to become the founding pastor of a mega-church.



(Just kidding about the pastor part)

 

[Vouthon]

I have a take on that, but no one else seems to entirely agree with me.

First, the mystical experience that is most often associated with enlightening a person is like a breeze. There is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- we can do to raise or lower that breeze. It comes and goes entirely of its own.

Please note there can be no spiritual progression if that experience is indeed like a breeze. You cannot progressively raise or lower a breeze. You cannot make one more or less likely to happen. A spiritual novice, and a person who has, say, practiced a meditative technique for 30 years, are on identical terms, in this light.

Next, and very important, there is no path to a breeze! In this final sense of the breeze metaphor, every religion is the same: Every religion is entirely worthless as a guarantee that the mystical experience will come to us. Again, there is no path to a breeze!

Second, we ourselves are like people living in houses who, for the most part, keep their doors and windows firmly closed. When the breeze comes, it cannot enter our houses to refresh us because our doors and windows are shut against it.

Here, at last, something like spiritual progress is possible. But only in this sense, we can work assiduously to open as many windows and doors as we can manage, so that, if the breeze finally comes, it can come in to refresh us. So, here, we can progress from, say, opening first one window, then the next, and so on. But we still cannot make the breeze happen. We can only become ready to receive it, if it does happen.

Make any sense to you, Stephen?

I just want to say that I really like this post but am not able to frubal you at the minute. When I become able again, you will certainly receive on for this post

It is an excellent description of infused contemplation in the Catholic tradition.

But that is off-topic, just wanted to say thank you!

 

[Sunstone]

I just want to say that I really like this post but am not able to frubal you at the minute. When I become able again, you will certainly receive on for this post

It is an excellent description of infused contemplation in the Catholic tradition.

But that is off-topic, just wanted to say thank you!

I would love to know more about infused contemplation. But, if it's not too much trouble, there is a better thread for it here.

 

[Vouthon]

Masturbation. My religion's take on it is fairly clear if you use the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a clear, blueprint for doctrine. If you take the Catholic tradition as a whole, rather than just this book, less so. Masturbation isn't mentioned in the Bible (well it is mentioned but not in a condemnatory way unless you heavily spin Onan), nor even in Sacred (extra-canonical) Tradition. In fact, the only clear teaching against it is from medieval theologians and the modern Catechism. I don't quite understand the reasons for this. Its definitely the most questionable Catholic sexual "sin" on numerous grounds.

Even the Catechism, which in a sense strongly condemns it, is also strangely moderate. It teaches that it is to be expected in young people who are in the process of discovering their sexual urges, for example in puberty and later adolescence. It also says that "culpability" (for self-pleasuring in this way with what has a fertility function) is lessened or even annulled if masturbation has become a habit upon which the person relies:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

So in other words, it starts by strongly condemning masturbation but then ends by essentially saying, "go light on the masturbators". If your young (affective immaturity), caught in a habit (force of acquired habit), or suffering from depression or severe stress (conditions of anxiety or other psychological) or even have a social reason for masturbating (uh, how infinite in possibilities might that be?) then your "culpability" is "reduced" - in other words a polite way of saying, "your not sinning". It then gives the whole topic over to "pastoral action", that is receiving guidance on it from your priest or pastor which might include, depending on the person, a very liberal take on their masturbation practice or a harder one. For example, if the person relies on masturbation and would be severely depressed without it, this individual would not be told to "stop" doing it instantly but rather have a more gradual evolution.

The quotation about it being a "constant tradition" isn't actually accurate. The Catechism is a "sure norm" but not everything in it is doctrine unless it reference an authoritative document. The reference for that quote is a CDF document from the 1970s. There are no references from the Bible, Sacred Tradition or anything canonical in that way - clear because Divine Revelation (for some inexplicable reason) says nothing about masturbation.

The prudential judgement of the church is clear, and therefore not to be dismissed offhand by Catholics, however in fact its rather confusing.

So I'm conflicted as to what my "religion" says on masturbation. If you go by the Catechism, its clear enough. If not, then its "chequered" with nothing in the deposit of faith explicitly condemning it but without any approval either and certainly with the prudential judgement of the church as a whole being that it is immoral.

Certainly, monks, nuns, clergy and anyone under a vow of celibacy should not be masturbating. This would also be, presumably, the goal to be emulated - the ideal (not sexual renunciation, rather I mean refraining from self-pleasuring).

I think it would be very difficult to masturbate without lust. Most people need to imagine an erotic image of a person to turn themselves on.

However given the broad category that could "reduce culpability" for wanting to self-pleasure yourself, I struggle to think when it truly would be a sin for the vast majority of individuals.

 

[Raban]

Most world religions typically do not approve of it.. it is a psychological defense against giving into what is considered carnal material desire which many faiths wish to abandon. As for me, I see no problem with such a thing, until however the very act, the lust for such pleasure becomes what one may identify as an 'idol'. Once an individual 'worships' sexual arousement (or may be addicted to it) I believe even once removed from theism that it is a detriment and a degrading action to the very idea of man, whom may surpass such things, in pursuit of 'higher ideals'. However if you believe that life should simply be enjoyed, and that action is inevitably worthless, then such an argument of the likes which i have posited is utterly worthless.

 

[Avonia]

I once went to my friend's bible-study group, and everyone there seemed to be against masturbation because it's a waste of time and keeps people from being productive, or something.
I asked if that meant sex was a waste of time, too, and they were like "um, yeah, I guess".

 

[Levite]

If you are sure that your parents don't care much if you will masturbate in front of their eyes any day, Means.. if you can easily masturbate in front your parents eyes, than of course your "Omnipresent supreme parent" also doesn't care much for your sexual habits, or masturbation.

Do you think its OK to masturbate in front of parents eyes ? If NO, than just think of the one who is omnipresent supreme parent.

So, by the same reasoning, I should never go to the bathroom, because God can see me, and after all, I wouldn't pee or poop in front of my parents. Nor should I ever change clothes or shower naked or anything, because God can see me, and I wouldn't be naked in front of my parents.

Or I should never have sex with my wife, because God can see me, and I wouldn't have sex in front of my parents.

Don't get me wrong, I often use and enjoy the image of God as a parent, but there does inevitably come a point where the analogy breaks down. There may or may not be reasons to masturbate or not to masturbate, but "God can see you" is, IMO, just no reason at all.

 

[philbo]

There may or may not be reasons to masturbate or not to masturbate, but "God can see you" is, IMO, just no reason at all.

He must have seen some pretty crazy **** over the years - the odd bit of bishop-bashing would barely be worth a second glance..

 

[Skwim]

How does your religion view masturbation?

It tries to view it in the privacy of one's home. Failing that, in HD on a 55" screen.

​

 

[mounir]

religiously there is nothing wrong with masturbation . too simply because in doing so there is nothing immoral and no buddy get hurt of something . lets compare masturbation homosexuality , this phenomena unfortunately can hurt the others indirectly to confuse children and next generation about what a love life should be like . so lets sum up by saying that masturbation is something that individual can enjoy and do with himself and he is free in his body to do whatever he wants to do , plus there is no sigh in ibrahamic religions to prohibit this habit which can be scientifically not good .

 

[chinu]

So, do you really believe, Chinu, old chap, that Ultimate Reality is fairly said to be a parent?

Yes, this old chap is sure.

 

[chinu]

Playing with your analogy though, I take it you would have no problems having sex in front of your parents with a loved one, right? Same concept to me.

Regardless of I don't think having sex with a loved one before getting privacy is any decent action to do in front of parents, But still I think that masturbation is much more indecent action than that of having sex with a loved one to do in front of parents.. loll.

 

[chinu]

Not to mention that at any one time he's going to be watching hundreds of millions of people on the loo. <shudder>

Who'd want to be omniscient, anyway?

Dear its the relationship between parent and his children.
Of course, parents want their children to grow-up and stop using diapers.

 

[chinu]

So, by the same reasoning, I should never go to the bathroom, because God can see me, and after all, I wouldn't pee or poop in front of my parents. Nor should I ever change clothes or shower naked or anything, because God can see me, and I wouldn't be naked in front of my parents.

Of course children can get naked, pee or poop in front of their parents when they are small at age, and of course parents never care much for such things done by their children when they are small ate age. Similarly one is just small at age for God until one reaches enlightenment, or "Oneness with God"

Or I should never have sex with my wife, because God can see me, and I wouldn't have sex in front of my parents.

One can have sex with wife in front of God because He's common parent for everybody, whereas earthy parents are not common parent for both husband and wife.

There may or may not be reasons to masturbate or not to masturbate, but "God can see you" is, IMO, just no reason at all.

IMO, masturbation is indecent action, Always, Or indecent to perform in front of supreme parent.

 

[philbo]

Dear its the relationship between parent and his children.
Of course, parents want their children to grow-up and stop using diapers.

Of course we want our children to grow up and stop using diapers: so we don't have to be witness to all the ****.

But if you're an omniscient, all-seeing sort of god, then you don't have a choice: it doesn't matter how grown-up your children have become, you still see them all at all their least dignified moments.

 

[chinu]

Of course we want our children to grow up and stop using diapers: so we don't have to be witness to all the ****.

I don't know what do you think is meant by GROWN-UP.
One remains small at age for God until one reaches enlightenment, or "Oneness with God".

But if you're an omniscient, all-seeing sort of god, then you don't have a choice: it doesn't matter how grown-up your children have become, you still see them all at all their least dignified moments.

When one becomes "One with God", its like drop became the sea itself
Thus.. further there's no need to watch grown-up children because after then it just becomes watching own-self.

I hope you are realizing what I want to express you, Philbo. Do you ?

 

[philbo]

I don't know what do you think is meant by GROWN-UP.
One remains small at age for God until one reaches enlightenment, or "Oneness with God".

..you were the one who said "Of course, parents want their children to grow-up and stop using diapers", I was using "grown up" in what I took to be exactly the same context as you had used the phrase.

When one becomes "One with God", its like drop became the sea itself

Thus.. further there's no need to watch grown-up children because after then it just becomes watching own-self.

I hope you are realizing what I want to express you, Philbo. Do you ?

er, nope. I've never met anybody I'd describe as (or would describe themselves as) being "One with God". Are you saying that once people are adult in the eyes of God, He no longer watches them? So presumably he's not watching them masturbate, either - lucky escape for Him, eh?
[/quote]

 

[chinu]

..you were the one who said "Of course, parents want their children to grow-up and stop using diapers", I was using "grown up" in what I took to be exactly the same context as you had used the phrase.

Of course God want his children (Souls) to get reunite with "Him", Grow-up means to get reunite with him, or "Oneness".

er, nope. I've never met anybody I'd describe as (or would describe themselves as) being "One with God". Are you saying that once people are adult in the eyes of God, He no longer watches them? So presumably he's not watching them masturbate, either - lucky escape for Him, eh?

Am saying.. when Soul gets reunite with God, only then one is adult in the eyes of God, Or in other words.. After oneness both child and parent become one with each other and their remains no child thereafter, only parent. Or in some other words.. When seer and seen becomes one with each other, their remains no seen thereafter, and if remains no seen then what is there to watch thereafter ?

I hope it is clear now.