How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?

[Soapy]

Other than jesus being the word in the flesh? John 1:14-18 From a christian perspective

She's the very incarnation of goodness. (Goodness in the flesh)
The regime was the very incarnation of evil. (Evil in the flesh)
The miser was an incarnation of greed. (Miser in the flesh)
She was the incarnation of wisdom. (I think this is in scripture-catholic bible, I believe)
This film is the latest incarnation of a fairy tale that dates back to the Middle Ages. (This one is an interesting use of the word. Manifestation?)
In its new incarnation, the car has a more rounded body shape.

These are how to use incarnation in a sentence.

It's just a word.

From a previous post concerning ‘incarnation’.

You see that every example you give is a MATAPHOR.

Jesus is ‘The word of God’ is a metaphor... Jesus carried out exactly what God told him (taught him) to say that Jesus is as good as God himself saying it.

That is what ‘word of God’ means.

The word of God taking on flesh means that ‘What God said came to fruition’.

Have you not heard the metaphor: ‘To take on flesh’ or Too become Flesh’?

 

[Soapy]

Incarnation means "a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or abstract quality."

Excuse me but where in heaven or on earth did you dredge up this nonsense from?

It’s complete codswallop.

It’s complete paganism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Excuse me but where in heaven or on earth did you dredge up this nonsense from?

It’s complete codswallop.

It’s complete paganism.

Dictionary.

Whether it's paganism or not is your call, the fact remains in the Bible god (his word) became an incarnation, flesh. He did this to create a relationship with his believers.

Your opinion about it doesn't change that. I don't believe Jesus is a savior but if I'm talking about Christianity and scripture, it reads that he is. I can't change what it teaches I just don't believe in it.

Maybe you don't like the word?

 

[Soapy]

Dictionary.

Whether it's paganism or not is your call, the fact remains in the Bible god (his word) became an incarnation, flesh. He did this to create a relationship with his believers.

Your opinion about it doesn't change that. I don't believe Jesus is a savior but if I'm talking about Christianity and scripture, it reads that he is. I can't change what it teaches I just don't believe in it.

Maybe you don't like the word?

Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.

My job is to bring to the mind of believers that trinity is also false. That’s why I express my views so fervently and constantly.

You cannot say you understand trinity - NOT EVEN TRINITARIANS UNDERSTAND TRINITY... how do you, an unbeliever, then say that YOU believe and understand it?

If you understand something of theology then you should then follow it...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're doing a bad job witnessing. I've seen many people come to christ but many who do are from examples of good will and charity from their peers.

Those who don't proselytize usually bring people to god through their speech and behavior. They have nothing to prove.

People do learn about christianity through the behavior and voice of followers. If christ's followers can't express the religion right, why would anyone be interested?

Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.

On that note.

That's silly. That would mean any person who wants to come worship with you have to be christian before they come through the door?

How do you build a christian community when you shoot them at the door when they say they are trinitarian or not christian?

My job is to bring to the mind of believers that trinity is also false. That’s why I express my views so fervently and constantly.

Oh. You gotta rethink your method of attack.

You got the wrong person. I don't agree with the trinity but I do understand both views. If you don't know your enemy, your argument won't get very far.

You cannot say you understand trinity - NOT EVEN TRINITARIANS UNDERSTAND TRINITY... how do you, an unbeliever, then say that YOU believe and understand it?

'Cause I don't have all the religious and spiritual bias as christians have. It's a pretty simple concept. I'm sure many theologians and philosophers etc understand the trinity intellectually.

Also, lets turn this around, if I don't understand it, trinitarians don't, how can you fight against it if you don't understand it either?

If you look up Roman Catholic explanations (and practice it), it's very easily understood. Practicing is hard for many christians. A lot of people depend on the mystic and poetic language. But why not just explain it plainly? Christianity and other religions doesn't need to be mystic in order for it to be understood.

If you understand something of theology then you should then follow it...

No. Studying religion, theology, and spirituality doesn't mean one is interested in taking it to heart. Can you imagine all theologians read all these different religions and try to practice each one just because they are interested in their studies!

 

[Soapy]

1. Jesus, was a man made by God in the same manner as the first human Being, Adam
   
2. This first Adam was born, not of the seed of mankind, but by the spirit of God, and thus Sinless, Holy, and Pure
3. Adam carries out the commands of God and therefore is called, ‘Son of God’
4. But Adam sinned and the rest us history...
5. God sought to redeem mankind from the sin of Adam by declaring that a saviour would come from the seed of a woman
6. But else wise, if a person in the line of Adam could be found who was pure and sinless as Adam was in the beginning, then if he sacrificed his life, Adams sin would be destroyed and mankind world be redeemed
7. No man of this kind was found. King David was the nearest, and God promised that his throne would be an everlasting throne and that one from his lineage would occupy that everlasting throne for eternity
8. So, after hundreds of years, God set aside the search for this human in the line of Adam and brought about the original plan set out at 5. above
9. God took the seed of the Virgin, Mary, and put into that seed LIFE by means of the Holy Spirit, life not from the sperm of a man. Therefore, once again, a man was born from the spirit of God.., what scriptures calls, ‘The Last Adam’
10. Before this took place, the angel had told the virgin that God WOULD overshadow her by his Holy Spirit and the child to be born to her would therefore be HOLY, [pure and sonless] and called, THE SON OF GOD MOST HIGH... just as the first Adam!! (See 2. above)
11. God had also prophesied that this last adam would be his servant, whom he would choose and upon whom he would pour out his spirit (this is an anointing - a setting aside for kingship - and priesthood - in this case) Isaiah 42:1 states this
12. Jesus successfully carried out all that God desired just as Isaiah 42:1 states. And we now find Jesus fully destined to set the world to rights and finally sit down on the throne of his forefather, David, ruling as KING over Creation AND High Priest to Almighty God, the Father

Please comment on EACH BULLET POINT stating what you see as non- scriptural...

Please please... justify you’re claims... please.

It’s important to this discussion that you are clear on your objections... please don’t just say that you don’t believe it... Quote scriptures where you say you do not agree and what counter argument you think you have.

Im getting the idea you don’t know what you are talking about and hence the disagreement without evidence that you are currently presenting...

Please please please comply - I’m eager to see if I have had things wrong by you - show me what I’m saying is not true - please!!!

 

[Soapy]

You're doing a bad job witnessing. I've seen many people come to christ but many who do are from examples of good will and charity from their peers.

Thank you. That’s exactly what I expect from such a person. It proves the rule!

Jesus says that no one comes to the FATHER except that the Father first calls them. This is not not those called are pre-destined - but that their hearts are set right by their own means and God selects them to come to be called. A bad person can have a change of heart (I know some... and Saul/Paul, was such a one!) and be called to be a believer... but simply doing good isn’t a calling... it must be backed by belief in God as Father, and Jesus as Christ/Messiah. HOWEVER, if the person is not in a position to come to know God and HIS CHRIST then compassion, dispensation, and compensation can be used to judge them worthy... Jesus, as judge at the second resurrection, has this discretion in his hands!!!

Those who don't proselytize usually bring people to god through their speech and behavior. They have nothing to prove.

See previous comment from me.

People do learn about christianity through the behavior and voice of followers. If christ's followers can't express the religion right, why would anyone be interested?

People have an innate desire to believe in a greater spiritual leader. You see even the most staunch atheist saying, ‘God help us’, or some such in a moment of terror... ‘Atheists’ believe in a NON-GOD!!! Life is pure futility unless there is a point and purpose to it... atheists struggle to find it and so invent devilishly clever ‘SCI-FI’ non-God reasons... always a higher life form found somewhere but for them, mankind always wins in the end... ha ha ha... the living organism of humanity, no matter what else is found out there... defeats the ALIEN. The image of God denied by the atheist beats the imaginary alien in the image of the non-God!!! How perverse and dishonourable!!!

On that note.

That's silly. That would mean any person who wants to come worship with you have to be christian before they come through the door?

No... that’s argumentative!! I did not say that...!! They are drawn to the doorway, the truth is given to them, they have the CHOICE to receive it and come in - or reject it and stay outside.

How do you build a christian community when you shoot them at the door when they say they are trinitarian or not christian?

See previous comment.

Oh. You gotta rethink your method of attack.

I don’t think I need guidance from an unbeliever - but a message is a message... I will consider it. However, what you see is what is causing you fear... yes, the truth does that... not my making but of the spirit that is Truth: The Holy Spirit from the Father. Did not the scriptures say that believers would be baptised by the fire of the Holy Spirit...? The potter test the vessels in the fire - those which are unworthy crack... and are thrown away!!!

You got the wrong person. I don't agree with the trinity but I do understand both views. If you don't know your enemy, your argument won't get very far.

I know my enemy... so I can deal with his wiles and devious ways... I do so with AID from the Holy Spirit which shows me the deceptions and forked tongue ideologies of trinity (I only discuss [anti-]trinity in the main... but in doing so all other things are brought into play to support that which I say to an audience)

'Cause I don't have all the religious and spiritual bias as christians have. It's a pretty simple concept. I'm sure many theologians and philosophers etc understand the trinity intellectually.

Also, lets turn this around, if I don't understand it, trinitarians don't, how can you fight against it if you don't understand it either?

If you look up Roman Catholic explanations (and practice it), it's very easily understood. Practicing is hard for many christians. A lot of people depend on the mystic and poetic language. But why not just explain it plainly? Christianity and other religions doesn't need to be mystic in order for it to be understood.



No. Studying religion, theology, and spirituality doesn't mean one is interested in taking it to heart. Can you imagine all theologians read all these different religions and try to practice each one just because they are interested in their studies!

And that’s exactly the problem. I often wonder how eminent persons of great industry say that they believe in trinity... Spiritual aspects is not given to be Sociology, philosophy, science, etc... Jesus told is this clearly:

• ‘The Greeks seek wisdom; the Jews seek a sign... but none will be given to [them]’

Yes, all answers to questions you ask as to why and wherefore, are scripturally given and pointed out to the believer as and when the Holy Spirit is called upon - Just as is said:

• ‘Do not think beforehand what you will say - when the time comes the Holy Spirit will speak through your mouth that which is needed to be said’ (paraphrase)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

People have an innate desire to believe in a greater spiritual leader. You see even the most staunch atheist saying, ‘God help us’, or some such in a moment of terror... ‘Atheists’ believe in a NON-GOD!!!

We don't have a innate desire to believe in a greater spiritual leader. That depends on how one is raised, their situation, their environment, and their spirituality.

Not sure why you have to caps and use exclamation points. There's nothing wrong not believing in god. We can't believe in something that does not exist.

Life is pure futility unless there is a point and purpose to it... atheists struggle to find it and so invent devilishly clever ‘SCI-FI’ non-God reasons... always a higher life form found somewhere but for them, mankind always wins in the end... ha ha ha... the living organism of humanity, no matter what else is found out there... defeats the ALIEN.

The image of God denied by the atheist beats the imaginary alien in the image of the non-God!!! How perverse and dishonourable!!![/QUOTE]

Not sure how you relate athiest structure and eventing devilishly clever sci-fi non-god reasons...

That sounds like a movie not spirituality.

No... that’s argumentative!! I did not say that...!! They are drawn to the doorway, the truth is given to them, they have the CHOICE to receive it and come in - or reject it and stay outside.

Nope. They are not drawn to the door. I was referring to this comment:

Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.

We have no place in the forum. That's like an atheist coming to your door and you say they have no place there. You shoot them before they even speak.

That, and you say that we draw believes away from the truth.

If they are drawn away, they are either in doubt or they actually followed something in their heart. Atheists (and believers) have nothing to do with it. We're not demons (or I sure hope not).

Jesus says that no one comes to the FATHER except that the Father first calls them.

This is not not those called are pre-destined - but that their hearts are set right by their own means and God selects them to come to be called. A bad person can have a change of heart (I know some... and Saul/Paul, was such a one!) and be called to be a believer... but simply doing good isn’t a calling... it must be backed by belief in God as Father, and Jesus as Christ/Messiah. HOWEVER, if the person is not in a position to come to know God and HIS CHRIST then compassion, dispensation, and compensation can be used to judge them worthy... Jesus, as judge at the second resurrection, has this discretion in his hands!!!

Well, since atheists believe or know god does not exist, no one is calling them.

The rest, not sure how that relates.

People have an innate desire to believe in a greater spiritual leader. You see even the most staunch atheist saying, ‘God help us’, or some such in a moment of terror... ‘Atheists’ believe in a NON-GOD!!! Life is pure futility unless there is a point and purpose to it... atheists struggle to find it and so invent devilishly clever ‘SCI-FI’ non-God reasons... always a higher life form found somewhere but for them, mankind always wins in the end... ha ha ha... the living organism of humanity, no matter what else is found out there... defeats the ALIEN. The image of God denied by the atheist beats the imaginary alien in the image of the non-God!!! How perverse and dishonourable!!!

No they don't.

I had brain surgery, I never called for god. I almost got hit by two cars, inches, I never called god. My grandmother and aunt died. I never felt that grief before, god was no where in my mind.

I think christians are kidding themselves when they think when some of us have some extraneous situation, we'll call out to "their" god.

How do you deny and reject something that does not exist???

I don’t think I need guidance from an unbeliever - but a message is a message... I will consider it. However, what you see is what is causing you fear... yes, the truth does that... not my making but of the spirit that is Truth: The Holy Spirit from the Father. Did not the scriptures say that believers would be baptised by the fire of the Holy Spirit...? The potter test the vessels in the fire - those which are unworthy crack... and are thrown away!!!

No non-believer is guiding you. Don't know what this means.

On a side note, I remember I was with a christian. We were talking on our date. She tells me she and her family doesn't believe in two women dating and committement. Instead of guiding her to her devil, I asked her when was the last time she went to god. I never seen her again.

I hope she went to god.

Maybe you're talking about atheists in RF, but I'm sure not like that. My best friend is christian and I don't speak for god for her, but I do help her by talking with her about her faith and challenges.

Christianity isn't special.

The rest sounds like poetry. What are you trying to say?

I know my enemy... so I can deal with his wiles and devious ways... I do so with AID from the Holy Spirit which shows me the deceptions and forked tongue ideologies of trinity (I only discuss [anti-]trinity in the main... but in doing so all other things are brought into play to support that which I say to an audience)

Well, I don't have one, thank gosh. I live a better life without believing someone is here to take away my spirit. That's silly.

And that’s exactly the problem. I often wonder how eminent persons of great industry say that they believe in trinity... Spiritual aspects is not given to be Sociology, philosophy, science, etc... Jesus told is this clearly:

• ‘The Greeks seek wisdom; the Jews seek a sign... but none will be given to [them]’

I know why many people believe in the trinity. I don't have issues with the trinity and how people express their relationship with god.

It's THEIR relationship. Who am I to judge?

Yes, all answers to questions you ask as to why and wherefore, are scripturally given and pointed out to the believer as and when the Holy Spirit is called upon - Just as is said:

• ‘Do not think beforehand what you will say - when the time comes the Holy Spirit will speak through your mouth that which is needed to be said’ (paraphrase)

When I read scripture I see how people view the trinity in scripture. I also can see how non-trinitarians can.

If scripture is supposed to tell the truth, why can I see both if you're claiming there's only one way to see god, christ, and his spirit?

 

[GardenLady]

Arguing the nature of God from the biological facts of human parentage/descent, or our understanding of the physical universe in which we live, seems inherently illogical to me.

Jesus referred to God as his father and yet he and the father are one. Whether there is an analog in our physical universe isn't the issue. The question is, do we take Jesus at his word?

 

[Soapy]

We don't have a innate desire to believe in a greater spiritual leader. That depends on how one is raised, their situation, their environment, and their spirituality.

Not sure why you have to caps and use exclamation points. There's nothing wrong not believing in god. We can't believe in something that does not exist.

Life is pure futility unless there is a point and purpose to it... atheists struggle to find it and so invent devilishly clever ‘SCI-FI’ non-God reasons... always a higher life form found somewhere but for them, mankind always wins in the end... ha ha ha... the living organism of humanity, no matter what else is found out there... defeats the ALIEN.

The image of God denied by the atheist beats the imaginary alien in the image of the non-God!!! How perverse and dishonourable!!!

Not sure how you relate athiest structure and eventing devilishly clever sci-fi non-god reasons...

That sounds like a movie not spirituality.



Nope. They are not drawn to the door. I was referring to this comment:

Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.

We have no place in the forum. That's like an atheist coming to your door and you say they have no place there. You shoot them before they even speak.

That, and you say that we draw believes away from the truth.

If they are drawn away, they are either in doubt or they actually followed something in their heart. Atheists (and believers) have nothing to do with it. We're not demons (or I sure hope not).



Well, since atheists believe or know god does not exist, no one is calling them.

The rest, not sure how that relates.



No they don't.

I had brain surgery, I never called for god. I almost got hit by two cars, inches, I never called god. My grandmother and aunt died. I never felt that grief before, god was no where in my mind.

I think christians are kidding themselves when they think when some of us have some extraneous situation, we'll call out to "their" god.

How do you deny and reject something that does not exist???



No non-believer is guiding you. Don't know what this means.

On a side note, I remember I was with a christian. We were talking on our date. She tells me she and her family doesn't believe in two women dating and committement. Instead of guiding her to her devil, I asked her when was the last time she went to god. I never seen her again.

I hope she went to god.

Maybe you're talking about atheists in RF, but I'm sure not like that. My best friend is christian and I don't speak for god for her, but I do help her by talking with her about her faith and challenges.

Christianity isn't special.

The rest sounds like poetry. What are you trying to say?



Well, I don't have one, thank gosh. I live a better life without believing someone is here to take away my spirit. That's silly.



I know why many people believe in the trinity. I don't have issues with the trinity and how people express their relationship with god.

It's THEIR relationship. Who am I to judge?



When I read scripture I see how people view the trinity in scripture. I also can see how non-trinitarians can.

If scripture is supposed to tell the truth, why can I see both if you're claiming there's only one way to see god, christ, and his spirit?[/QUOTE]
There’s quite a lot to say to you from what is said.

• “Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.”

I said this to mean that you cannot come into a Christian forum and say:

• “I don’t believe in Christianity”

... that is so ...ooh... wrong! I can say that I don’t believe in Christian TRINITY because the head topic is Christianity. It’s bull**** to say otherwise...

• “Hey, I’m atheist and you guys are arguing bollocks... there is no God!!”

We are here to debate CHRISTIANITY and aspects of it... why not come in and say:

• ‘Fermat’s last theorem isn’t quite solved’

Duh!! I think you’re in the wrong section of the forum!!!

There can be no end to a debate (or even discussion) if the absolute opposite of what is set out to be debated (or discussed) is put on the table! There will just be endless, ‘It is’...’No, it’s not’!!

And, in fact, that is exactly how it is going in this thread.

The point is that at some stage an antagonist realises that the protagonist has revealed their input as a wrongful belief... So, unless there is a humungous Holy Spirited revelation on the scale of Saul to Paul, there will be endless debate... not good. It will just cause anxiety, anger, frustration, disgust, and resentment against each other.

In fact, scriptures does warn us about debating with, um.., ‘foolish ones’... ‘throwing your pearls [of wisdom] before the swines [of godly intelligence]’

But still, there is a hope that the antagonist is one of those in the statistical norm of 2 out of 100. God only requires us to make the change in 1 out of 100 persons:

• ‘It is sufficient that even one person should be brought to an understanding’ (paraphrased)

So I don’t worry if the word I give out in a forum is not received... my job is to give out the sermon and move on... even one at some time may receive it and believe ... it is not for me to know of that person but I pray to God that it is so! This is not ungodly pride.. it is glorious pride like a man who accomplished a great task against the odds. Should that man be dulled in his works because someone accuses him ungodly PRIDE for his good works? Why, even Jesus Christ made glory of his achievements!!!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not sure how you relate athiest structure and eventing devilishly clever sci-fi non-god reasons...

That sounds like a movie not spirituality.



Nope. They are not drawn to the door. I was referring to this comment:

Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.

We have no place in the forum. That's like an atheist coming to your door and you say they have no place there. You shoot them before they even speak.

That, and you say that we draw believes away from the truth.

If they are drawn away, they are either in doubt or they actually followed something in their heart. Atheists (and believers) have nothing to do with it. We're not demons (or I sure hope not).



Well, since atheists believe or know god does not exist, no one is calling them.

The rest, not sure how that relates.



No they don't.

I had brain surgery, I never called for god. I almost got hit by two cars, inches, I never called god. My grandmother and aunt died. I never felt that grief before, god was no where in my mind.

I think christians are kidding themselves when they think when some of us have some extraneous situation, we'll call out to "their" god.

How do you deny and reject something that does not exist???



No non-believer is guiding you. Don't know what this means.

On a side note, I remember I was with a christian. We were talking on our date. She tells me she and her family doesn't believe in two women dating and committement. Instead of guiding her to her devil, I asked her when was the last time she went to god. I never seen her again.

I hope she went to god.

Maybe you're talking about atheists in RF, but I'm sure not like that. My best friend is christian and I don't speak for god for her, but I do help her by talking with her about her faith and challenges.

Christianity isn't special.

The rest sounds like poetry. What are you trying to say?



Well, I don't have one, thank gosh. I live a better life without believing someone is here to take away my spirit. That's silly.



I know why many people believe in the trinity. I don't have issues with the trinity and how people express their relationship with god.

It's THEIR relationship. Who am I to judge?



When I read scripture I see how people view the trinity in scripture. I also can see how non-trinitarians can.

If scripture is supposed to tell the truth, why can I see both if you're claiming there's only one way to see god, christ, and his spirit?

There’s quite a lot to say to you from what is said.

• “Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.”

I said this to mean that you cannot come into a Christian forum and say:

• “I don’t believe in Christianity”

... that is so ...ooh... wrong! I can say that I don’t believe in Christian TRINITY because the head topic is Christianity. It’s bull**** to say otherwise...

• “Hey, I’m atheist and you guys are arguing bollocks... there is no God!!”

We are here to debate CHRISTIANITY and aspects of it... why not come in and say:

• ‘Fermat’s last theorem isn’t quite solved’

Duh!! I think you’re in the wrong section of the forum!!!

There can be no end to a debate (or even discussion) if the absolute opposite of what is set out to be debated (or discussed) is put on the table! There will just be endless, ‘It is’...’No, it’s not’!!

And, in fact, that is exactly how it is going in this thread.

The point is that at some stage an antagonist realises that the protagonist has revealed their input as a wrongful belief... So, unless there is a humungous Holy Spirited revelation on the scale of Saul to Paul, there will be endless debate... not good. It will just cause anxiety, anger, frustration, disgust, and resentment against each other.

In fact, scriptures does warn us about debating with, um.., ‘foolish ones’... ‘throwing your pearls [of wisdom] before the swines [of godly intelligence]’

But still, there is a hope that the antagonist is one of those in the statistical norm of 2 out of 100. God only requires us to make the change in 1 out of 100 persons:

• ‘It is sufficient that even one person should be brought to an understanding’ (paraphrased)

So I don’t worry if the word I give out in a forum is not received... my job is to give out the sermon and move on... even one at some time may receive it and believe ... it is not for me to know of that person but I pray to God that it is so! This is not ungodly pride.. it is glorious pride like a man who accomplished a great task against the odds. Should that man be dulled in his works because someone accuses him ungodly PRIDE for his good works? Why, even Jesus Christ made glory of his achievements!!![/QUOTE]

You're quotes are off. I can't follow.

 

[Soapy]

There’s quite a lot to say to you from what is said.

• “Wrong wrong wrong... and the fact you say that you are an unbeliever in Christ Jesus means you have no place in this forum - anything your day can only be to draw believers away from the truth.”

I said this to mean that you cannot come into a Christian forum and say:

• “I don’t believe in Christianity”

... that is so ...ooh... wrong! I can say that I don’t believe in Christian TRINITY because the head topic is Christianity. It’s bull**** to say otherwise...

• “Hey, I’m atheist and you guys are arguing bollocks... there is no God!!”

We are here to debate CHRISTIANITY and aspects of it... why not come in and say:

• ‘Fermat’s last theorem isn’t quite solved’

Duh!! I think you’re in the wrong section of the forum!!!

There can be no end to a debate (or even discussion) if the absolute opposite of what is set out to be debated (or discussed) is put on the table! There will just be endless, ‘It is’...’No, it’s not’!!

And, in fact, that is exactly how it is going in this thread.

The point is that at some stage an antagonist realises that the protagonist has revealed their input as a wrongful belief... So, unless there is a humungous Holy Spirited revelation on the scale of Saul to Paul, there will be endless debate... not good. It will just cause anxiety, anger, frustration, disgust, and resentment against each other.

In fact, scriptures does warn us about debating with, um.., ‘foolish ones’... ‘throwing your pearls [of wisdom] before the swines [of godly intelligence]’

But still, there is a hope that the antagonist is one of those in the statistical norm of 2 out of 100. God only requires us to make the change in 1 out of 100 persons:

• ‘It is sufficient that even one person should be brought to an understanding’ (paraphrased)

So I don’t worry if the word I give out in a forum is not received... my job is to give out the sermon and move on... even one at some time may receive it and believe ... it is not for me to know of that person but I pray to God that it is so! This is not ungodly pride.. it is glorious pride like a man who accomplished a great task against the odds. Should that man be dulled in his works because someone accuses him ungodly PRIDE for his good works? Why, even Jesus Christ made glory of his achievements!!!

You're quotes are off. I can't follow.[/QUOTE]
Really?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're quotes are off. I can't follow.

Really?[/QUOTE]

Yes. Go back.

I think you missed a " [ " somewhere.

 

[Soapy]

Forget missed ‘[‘’s... attend to the important matters...

Let’s start again!

“How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?”

- In Genesis they claim ‘GOD’ and the ‘Spirit of God’ (TWO PERSONS) and yet claim that this is TRINITY (THREE).

- They define ‘Gods as three persons yet ‘God’ and the Spirit of God’ makes FOUR persons.

- They claim that God saying ‘We’ and ‘Us’ means THREE... since when did ‘Us’ mean only three - or even ‘We’ also meaning three?

- The only other ‘persons’ mentioned are the Angels... so ‘God’ and the ‘Angels’ are perceivable ‘US’ and ‘We’.

For sure, God did not make the Angels just to applaud his works... the angels are created to:

• CARRY OUT THE WORKS of God...”

and indeed,

• ‘to do the works of God’

is the definition of:

• “Sons of God”

...........
But read further... the Sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men and desired them. The angels:

• Made bodies for themselves and put their own spirits in them and came onto the daughters of men - taking as many as they desired!!! Thus the nephilims were born to them!!

What do you read?? The angels CREATED BODIES... but they couldn’t put a separate SPIRIT into it to ENLIVEN THE BODY...

They had to enliven the body with their OWN SPIRIT.

But God, the creator of Spirits, put A SPIRIT into the LIFELESS BODY of the lifeless man:

• ‘And the man BECAME A LIVING SOUL’

Adam’s body was LIFELESS until God put a spirit into it....
—————————————

And now your comments, please!!!

 

[YoursTrue]

Something wrong here. According to standard Christian belief, Christ was both truly God and truly human. The two are not considered mutually exclusive.

May I ask what you mean by 'the two are not considered mutually exclusive'? Pardon me if someone else asked and you answered.

 

[YoursTrue]

... not, ‘Father is image of Son’... that is an impossibility! I think, I know, you meant: ‘Son is image of Father’!!!

As to finding out what non-trinity people think of the trinity.. please be careful where you look.

First off: You won’t find many that are truly Christian. You will find JW’s and Muslims mostly.

I am non-Trinitarian but am neither JW nor Muslim.

And don’t get drawn into the ‘Arian’ or modalist, or Jesus only, debates. These will all mislead and frustrate you. These are the favourite targets of Trinitarians because they are easy to attack and be shown to be at fault. And for good reason, too... they contain gulfs of errors.

So, where will you find the true anti-Trinitarian-Christian...?

They are rare creatures! Will you identify one when you read/hear one??

Think on these:

1. Yhwh God never ever said he was ‘One God’. He said he was the Israelites ONLY GOD.
2. In the beginning, YHWH GOD created the world and all within for his own pleasure
3. HE designed a world that was physical.. that is, having limitations and laws that restricted the activities of its inhabitants...
4. HE created objects and entities with differing levels of intelligence and desire to reproduce as a way of maintaining their species: plants, animals, fish, birds, insects, etc.
5. Finally, HE created a MANAGER to oversee his creation... because YHWH is proud, he made the ‘Man’ in a physical IMAGE of his own being... this means high intelligence, mastery, love, creativity, judicious, inventive, proud, nurturing, husbandrous, righteous, sinless, holy, wise... it certainly does not mean a visual image: flesh for flesh like a human-human (mirror) image: God is SPIRIT and formless!
6. The first Man, called Adam, was FATHER of ALL HUMANITY... he was created sinless and holy... as you might expect, being the image of his creator. However, Adam sinned and caused Yhwh God to regret creating the Man. But Yhwh relented from destroying his creation saying that if a holy and sinless MAN (offspring of Adam) could be found among Adams offspring, then the ultimate test would be put in place: SACRIFICE this sinless holy offspring as payment for the first man’s sin!!
7. But, as with all wise system builders, YHWH set up a contingency: A SECOND ADAM would be created if none were found among Adams offspring. A second and LAST ADAM ...MADE IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE FIRST...!!
8. Yhwh gave man(kind) thousands of years to produce an offspring that was sinless and holy... none was found. The man, DAVID, came the closest. But, no... none was found because David did sin!!!!
9. So, YHWH implemented his contingency... He set about creating a SAVIOUR, a MESSIAH, a CHRIST... HE made a SECOND ADAM... from the SEED OF A WOMAN. Remember that Adam was created from the DUST OF THE EARTH and ENLIVENED BY THE BREATH of his Spirit. This second Adam MUST be the SAME
10. And so it was: The SEED (egg) of a woman is expelled monthly ... expelled to the earth... it is NOT SACRED. It is INERT, unliving... It is the SPERM OF A MAN that gives it LIFE (hence the Male is called ‘Father’!!!) But it is this very sperm that ‘SPIRITUALLY’ carries the sin. So, the second Adam CANNOT come from a human-human offspring... the Second Adam was created by the egg being ‘overshadowed by the Holy Spirit of Yhwh’
11. And since the second Adam was created from the seed of a woman and the breath of yhwh God, the child born was ‘SINLESS AND HOLY’, just like the first Adam.
12. But this second Adam DID NOT SIN... and so was that perfect holy sinless man to pay the penance YHWH god desired
13. As a REWARD for dying, this second Adam was resurrected by YHWH and given KINGSHIP OVER THE CREATED WORLD
14. this Second Adam will RULE as king in a world that is physical on the Spiritual throne of the ‘David’ that God loved.
15. Yhwh created the physical world to be ruled by a physical Being. ‘It was created for him - for the sinless holy one!! which would have been the FIRST ADAM if he had not sinned’

Question: In the trinity, the Son... who is also this Second Adam (though trinnies won’t say this!) acquires the throne of David... WHY, if the Son is YHWH GOD, would this be a REWARD!!

Would you believe that I have yet to receive a response from a trinitarian concerning this question?

Very interesting point #1, Soapy.

 

[exchemist]

May I ask what you mean by 'the two are not considered mutually exclusive'? Pardon me if someone else asked and you answered.

Mutual exclusivity - Wikipedia

Specifically, Christ being fully human does not mean he could not also have been God, according to standard Trinitarian doctrine.

 

[Soapy]

Very interesting point #1, Soapy.

Only #1?

 

[YoursTrue]

Only #1?

No, there's more that's interesting, but I usually can focus on one idea at a time.

 

[YoursTrue]

Mutual exclusivity - Wikipedia

Specifically, Christ being fully human does not mean he could not also have been God, according to standard Trinitarian doctrine.

Glad you said according to the doctrine.