How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?

[Soapy]

Mutual exclusivity - Wikipedia

Specifically, Christ being fully human does not mean he could not also have been God, according to standard Trinitarian doctrine.

Can I politely explain that ‘standard Trinitarian doctrine’ is false doctrine!

You will know from your history lessons that at one time the Christian CATHOLIC church was adamant that the Earth was the centre of the [solar system]... and you now know that that was completely false, too!

Trinitarians claim that their God is three persons... you know, like a Clover (or Shamrock) is a leaf (God) composed of three petals (persons). Now, you know that this analogy is total crap... why?

1. There are billions of clover leaves... There is only one True God!
   
2. All clover leaves have a stem... since it is part of the leaf, is it not a FOURTH element to take into consideration... a fourth ‘God’??
3. Is it disrespectful to your almighty God to equate him to a Leaf!!!

But when that analogy failed... they try an egg... three parts to an egg....! But whoa... that doesn’t work either:

1. The shell (one part... equal to the Father) is an enclosure for ...
2. The Yolk... (the Son)... which is surrounded by the...
3. White (the Holy Spirit)

Of course it doesn’t work either. But more to the fact that there is a FOURTH part to an egg.!!! Have you noticed that there is a skin (I’m not sure but I think it’s call Embullum ... don’t quote me on that but there is a lining against the shell. Shouldn’t this be a FOURTH GOD??

And don’t even speak of the ‘Ice, water, and steam’ GOD...!! You WILL EVENTUALLY notice that any molecule of the H2O is NOT in all three states AT THE SAME TIME...

Trinity FAILED AGAIN!!!!

So, please don’t argue about trinity Christianity because we know that it is false and you can always find it’s faults with ease.

When you argue about Christianity, please argue with the SCRIPTURES... and, respectfully, not misinterpretations, mistranslations and misunderstanding of the trinity fraternity.

In case you don’t know it already:

1. Jesus was a man born not from the seed of another man but made alive by the Holy Spirit of God just as the first man, Adam, was made
2. The body of both were made with inert material (Adam, the dust of the earth; Jesus, the seed of a woman)
3. Being so made, they both were sinless and holy: Son of God! (Adam: Luke3:38; Jesus: ‘The Holy Spirit shall overshadow [Mary] and the child to be born to you shall be called “Holy, the Son of God”)’
   
4. Jesus is called, ‘The second Adam’... or more emphatically, ‘The LAST ADAM’! He is a replacement for the fallen first Adam
5. Scriptures is littered with examples of the first Son sinning and another Son is brought up to replace him and take the PRIZE given to the MOST BELOVED SON OF THE FATHER (Scriptures terms this: ‘Firstborn’... sadly not too different from the chronological ‘First Born’). In Jewish terms, the first out of the womb, the ‘first born’ is also the ‘firstborn’... but if that one sins then another sin replaces him as the ‘firstborn’ (most beloved):
   1. Seth replaces Cain
   2. Isaac replaces Ishmael
   3. Jacob replaces Esau
   4. Joseph replaced ... (his elder brother)
   5. David replaces Saul (1st king of Israel)
   6. Solomon replaced ... (his elder brother)
   7. ...
   8. Jesus replaced Adam
   9. There are more but you can figure them out for yourself!!
6. Jesus was taught by his spirit Father (YHWH) what to say and do - and was dutiful in all things (the fullest and true meaning of ‘Son’!!!)
7. But he knew that he had a difficult job to perform.. like Abraham with Isaac, Jesus knee he had to be sacrificed by his Father .... in order to remove the sin of Adam... he remained dutiful dispute being tempted to ‘find another way!’. Jesus fulfilled his task having faith that his Father would resurrect him from the dead!!!
8. In accomplishing the sinless death and the eternal resurrection jesus removes the terms sin of Adam and we are now left with only our own sins to condemn us... but Jesus offered us hope if we followed his and his Father’s commands
9. Jesus was taken up to heaven and seated NEXT TO GOD... (he cannot BE GOD if he is NEXT TO God!!)
10. But now Jesus’ role is to restore sinlessness back to the whole world. He does so by use of the Holy Spirit of God (Holy Spirit of the Father). Consider the famine in Egypt and Joseph (Skinny to Jesus Christ) overseeing the restoration back to a harvest (sinlessness) by the power of the signet ring (the Holy Spirit) of the Pharoah (Akin to God The Father)
11. And finally, when all is restored, Jesus is rewarded with RULERSHIP OVER THE CREATED WORLD - he becomes FATHER to all selected humanity who believe in God and Christ
12. Think of these terms:
    1. ‘God’: Rule maker; sovereign; judge; greatest; worshipped one
    2. ‘Father’: Creator; Giver of life; rule maker; the head; King (Monarch)
    3. ‘Lord’: Master; overseer; shepherd; leader
13. Before Jesus, God was also ‘Lord’. He was all of the definition of ‘Lord’... but in these latter days he has delegated his Lordship to his Son so that his Son may be glorified by his creation. Do not claim that there are two Lords nor that both God and Jesus are the SAME Lord... a delegate does not claim to be the master who made him a delegate nor an emissary claim to be the king who sent him on his errand!
14. And notice in the book of Revelation that Jesus (the lamb) is NEVER WORSHIPPED... only ‘He who sat (sits) on the throne’ is worshipped. Jesus (and God) are rightfully both PRAISED, HONORED, and GLORIFIED... but only God is worshipped...

 

[Soapy]

No, there's more that's interesting, but I usually can focus on one idea at a time.

Expand your thoughts on this for me... thanks.

 

[Soapy]

exchemist said:

Specifically, Christ being fully human does not mean he could not also have been God, according to standard Trinitarian doctrine.

If we exclaim loudly that trinity is false, would it make any difference to you claiming you found a fault in Christianity or attempting lamely to uphold trinity?

TRUE CHRISTIANITY is not about TRINITY... it is about believing that Jesus is the Son of God (which means he cannot be God!!) and that Jesus is a sinless and holy one who follows dutifully the ways of his spiritual Father... That Jesus came and delivered the testimony that his Father gave him to deliver (Rev 1:1). And that Jesus (Servant of God) will restore the kingdom of God in earth just as was prophesied (Isaiah 42:1)

Bow the knee to Jesus Christ in praise, honor, and glorification (this is not worship!)

Glorify God, praise, lord and honor him; Sacrifice to Him in reverence (This is Worship)

The Father and the Son, in rightful order... there is no third ‘person’!! “I and the Father, are ONE [in ACCORD]’

 

[rrobs]

A lot of trinitarians won't answer the question because to separate christ from god is making christ human. When you make christ human, from their logic, he no longer can save a person from sins. Since salvation is important, any question of the nature of christ and god would put a dent on what they believed their own lives as believers.

I don't know if I met any christian (any) who can answer non-trinitarian view questions and still hold their beliefs nonetheless.

In other words, good luck?

Luck not required. The only thing a non-trinitarian has to do is read what's written.

1Cor 15:21,

For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
​

Few Christians understand that God gave dominion over the earth to man. God was not in charge then, and He is not in charge now. He accomplishes His will with the help of humans. If He can get a human to believe something then God can do it.

As a just God, He could not change His mind, come down to earth and make things right. Instead He had to give us the entire OT, which essentially contains the instructions for some man to carry out and thus redeem us. Of course that would have been Jesus. God told him, a man, what to do and he did it perfectly. If Jesus were God, there would be no big deal. I mean, naturally God would obey Himself, but to get a man to do that by his own free will is beyond fantastic, but that's the Bible story in a nutshell.

The upshot: man got us into the mess and it had to be a man who got us out. It is patently wrong to think that only God could redeem us. The scriptures say it had to be a man.

 

[rrobs]

... not, ‘Father is image of Son’... that is an impossibility! I think, I know, you meant: ‘Son is image of Father’!!!

As to finding out what non-trinity people think of the trinity.. please be careful where you look.

First off: You won’t find many that are truly Christian. You will find JW’s and Muslims mostly.

I am non-Trinitarian but am neither JW nor Muslim.

And don’t get drawn into the ‘Arian’ or modalist, or Jesus only, debates. These will all mislead and frustrate you. These are the favourite targets of Trinitarians because they are easy to attack and be shown to be at fault. And for good reason, too... they contain gulfs of errors.

So, where will you find the true anti-Trinitarian-Christian...?

They are rare creatures! Will you identify one when you read/hear one??

Think on these:

1. Yhwh God never ever said he was ‘One God’. He said he was the Israelites ONLY GOD.
2. In the beginning, YHWH GOD created the world and all within for his own pleasure
3. HE designed a world that was physical.. that is, having limitations and laws that restricted the activities of its inhabitants...
4. HE created objects and entities with differing levels of intelligence and desire to reproduce as a way of maintaining their species: plants, animals, fish, birds, insects, etc.
5. Finally, HE created a MANAGER to oversee his creation... because YHWH is proud, he made the ‘Man’ in a physical IMAGE of his own being... this means high intelligence, mastery, love, creativity, judicious, inventive, proud, nurturing, husbandrous, righteous, sinless, holy, wise... it certainly does not mean a visual image: flesh for flesh like a human-human (mirror) image: God is SPIRIT and formless!
6. The first Man, called Adam, was FATHER of ALL HUMANITY... he was created sinless and holy... as you might expect, being the image of his creator. However, Adam sinned and caused Yhwh God to regret creating the Man. But Yhwh relented from destroying his creation saying that if a holy and sinless MAN (offspring of Adam) could be found among Adams offspring, then the ultimate test would be put in place: SACRIFICE this sinless holy offspring as payment for the first man’s sin!!
7. But, as with all wise system builders, YHWH set up a contingency: A SECOND ADAM would be created if none were found among Adams offspring. A second and LAST ADAM ...MADE IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE FIRST...!!
8. Yhwh gave man(kind) thousands of years to produce an offspring that was sinless and holy... none was found. The man, DAVID, came the closest. But, no... none was found because David did sin!!!!
9. So, YHWH implemented his contingency... He set about creating a SAVIOUR, a MESSIAH, a CHRIST... HE made a SECOND ADAM... from the SEED OF A WOMAN. Remember that Adam was created from the DUST OF THE EARTH and ENLIVENED BY THE BREATH of his Spirit. This second Adam MUST be the SAME
10. And so it was: The SEED (egg) of a woman is expelled monthly ... expelled to the earth... it is NOT SACRED. It is INERT, unliving... It is the SPERM OF A MAN that gives it LIFE (hence the Male is called ‘Father’!!!) But it is this very sperm that ‘SPIRITUALLY’ carries the sin. So, the second Adam CANNOT come from a human-human offspring... the Second Adam was created by the egg being ‘overshadowed by the Holy Spirit of Yhwh’
11. And since the second Adam was created from the seed of a woman and the breath of yhwh God, the child born was ‘SINLESS AND HOLY’, just like the first Adam.
12. But this second Adam DID NOT SIN... and so was that perfect holy sinless man to pay the penance YHWH god desired
13. As a REWARD for dying, this second Adam was resurrected by YHWH and given KINGSHIP OVER THE CREATED WORLD
14. this Second Adam will RULE as king in a world that is physical on the Spiritual throne of the ‘David’ that God loved.
15. Yhwh created the physical world to be ruled by a physical Being. ‘It was created for him - for the sinless holy one!! which would have been the FIRST ADAM if he had not sinned’

Question: In the trinity, the Son... who is also this Second Adam (though trinnies won’t say this!) acquires the throne of David... WHY, if the Son is YHWH GOD, would this be a REWARD!!

Would you believe that I have yet to receive a response from a trinitarian concerning this question?

Good stuff. I am also non-trinitarian, non-JW, and non-Muslum.

I read somewhere that 98.6% of Christians fall for the Nicene Council bastardization of the scriptures regarding the nature of Jesus. That leaves 1.4% who believe the scriptures. Of those 1.4%, many are JW who still believe Jesus had some form of preexistence, which is really not that much better than making him God. It is a lonely world indeed for those who believe that Jesus is a man, that he had a definite beginning (when he was born...like all other people), that he had free will, that he could have disobeyed God just like the first Adam.

You mentioned seed. God went into some detail in Genesis chapter one explaining that a seed always produces the same thing as the parent. The first introduction to Jesus was when God said the seed of the woman would crush Satan's head. Hmmmm...how does a human produce a God? Big problem there. But it is easily solved, a human produced another human. Eve's seed would be a human. Don't know how that gets lost on 98.6% of Christians.

The devil has gotten Christendom to worship another God besides Yahweh, and another Jesus whom Paul did not preach. Virtually every church in the world has a bloody "God" hanging on a cross behind the altar. If that's not idolatry, I don't know what it would be. No wonder the world is so turbulent.

I suppose one good thing about being a non-trinitarian today as opposed to much of church history is that we are not likely to get burned at the stake. At least not yet. I have a distinct feeling that some to whom I suggest Jesus is not God would happily burn me up if it were still in fashion.

God bless

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Luck not required. The only thing a non-trinitarian has to do is read what's written.

1Cor 15:21,

For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
​

Few Christians understand that God gave dominion over the earth to man. God was not in charge then, and He is not in charge now. He accomplishes His will with the help of humans. If He can get a human to believe something then God can do it.

As a just God, He could not change His mind, come down to earth and make things right. Instead He had to give us the entire OT, which essentially contains the instructions for some man to carry out and thus redeem us. Of course that would have been Jesus. God told him, a man, what to do and he did it perfectly. If Jesus were God, there would be no big deal. I mean, naturally God would obey Himself, but to get a man to do that by his own free will is beyond fantastic, but that's the Bible story in a nutshell.

The upshot: man got us into the mess and it had to be a man who got us out. It is patently wrong to think that only God could redeem us. The scriptures say it had to be a man.

Why wouldn't majority Christian's not know this?

 

[rrobs]

Why wouldn't majority Christian's not know this?

In the seven church epistles written by Paul, we are given the true doctrine. At one time that doctrine prevailed.

Acts 9b-10

9b he (Paul) departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus. 2Tim 1:15;

10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks​

Acts 19:20,

So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
​

But problems began to develop.

Acts 20:29,

For I (Paul) know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.​

2 Pet 2:1,

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.​

There are many other warnings to the early church, but none of them were heeded. In fact it got so bad that before Paul even died things went completely South in a big hurry.

2Tim 1:15,

This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me (Paul); of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
​

Given that Asia was pretty much their entire world, this verse says basically that all Christians had turned away from Paul and were led into something that is not the truth.

That's from the scriptures. From history it is fairly easy to ascertain that the Roman Catholic church were the ones who hijacked the truth. Sadly, by and large, the truth remains buried under the lies of the Orthodox Church. Doctrinaly, there is not much difference between the Catholic and Protestant church. They have both abandoned the one true God and their one true savior, in favor of a Pagan construct hammered out by Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology loving so called "church father" at a council held some 300 years after Jesus died. It took that long to come up with the non-scriptural terms they use in an attempt to explain the unexplainable. They had to invent new words and concepts to make their devilish doctrine, words and concepts that can in no wise be found it the scriptures themselves. "God the Son" would be a prime example. The words are simply not in the scriptures.

To answer your question head on, Christians believe Jesus is God because they value tradition over truth. It is also worth noting that nobody can go beyond what they are taught. The teaching that Jesus is God has been going on for some 2,000 years now. That's a lot of false teaching to overcome. I think it fair to say that virtually every Christian that begins a study of the scriptures already "knows" that Jesus is God. It might be easy to find a few verses that, due to preconceived ideas, can be twisted into maybe saying that Jesus is God. But, while doing that, they ignore the hundreds upon hundreds of verses that clearly say Jesus is not and could not be God. How about the 50 odd some places where Jesus is called the Son of God? In what world is a son his own father?

Well, I guess that is a long answer to a short question. However, I have kept it is short as I can. Truth is, I could go on and on showing how the scriptures really say Jesus is God's son, and therefor can't be God Himself. It's ultra simple. I think a 2 year old recognizes he or she is not their own father. What a shame grown adults can't be as wise.

Take care.

 

[YoursTrue]

Luck not required. The only thing a non-trinitarian has to do is read what's written.

1Cor 15:21,

For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
​

Few Christians understand that God gave dominion over the earth to man. God was not in charge then, and He is not in charge now. He accomplishes His will with the help of humans. If He can get a human to believe something then God can do it.

As a just God, He could not change His mind, come down to earth and make things right. Instead He had to give us the entire OT, which essentially contains the instructions for some man to carry out and thus redeem us. Of course that would have been Jesus. God told him, a man, what to do and he did it perfectly. If Jesus were God, there would be no big deal. I mean, naturally God would obey Himself, but to get a man to do that by his own free will is beyond fantastic, but that's the Bible story in a nutshell.

The upshot: man got us into the mess and it had to be a man who got us out. It is patently wrong to think that only God could redeem us. The scriptures say it had to be a man.

True, God was pleased, very pleased, with Jesus' sacrifice. God was in charge, so to speak, as He must have been with (in spirit) Adam as Adam grew familiar with his surroundings. But after the sin, Adam turning against God, God allowed man to continue in his own course, moving him out of that Garden. But then God is going to take the earth back in time and have God's glory reside with man on the earth.

 

[YoursTrue]

Good stuff. I am also non-trinitarian, non-JW, and non-Muslum.

I read somewhere that 98.6% of Christians fall for the Nicene Council bastardization of the scriptures regarding the nature of Jesus. That leaves 1.4% who believe the scriptures. Of those 1.4%, many are JW who still believe Jesus had some form of preexistence, which is really not that much better than making him God. It is a lonely world indeed for those who believe that Jesus is a man, that he had a definite beginning (when he was born...like all other people), that he had free will, that he could have disobeyed God just like the first Adam.

You mentioned seed. God went into some detail in Genesis chapter one explaining that a seed always produces the same thing as the parent. The first introduction to Jesus was when God said the seed of the woman would crush Satan's head. Hmmmm...how does a human produce a God? Big problem there. But it is easily solved, a human produced another human. Eve's seed would be a human. Don't know how that gets lost on 98.6% of Christians.

The devil has gotten Christendom to worship another God besides Yahweh, and another Jesus whom Paul did not preach. Virtually every church in the world has a bloody "God" hanging on a cross behind the altar. If that's not idolatry, I don't know what it would be. No wonder the world is so turbulent.

I suppose one good thing about being a non-trinitarian today as opposed to much of church history is that we are not likely to get burned at the stake. At least not yet. I have a distinct feeling that some to whom I suggest Jesus is not God would happily burn me up if it were still in fashion.

God bless

Or other means of shutting up dissidents from mainstream doctrine. Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world.

 

[cataway]

Why wouldn't majority Christian's not know this?

mainly because the majority of Christian's don't read and study the bible . they believe what they want to believe or believe what they are told to believe

 

[YoursTrue]

Luck not required. The only thing a non-trinitarian has to do is read what's written.

1Cor 15:21,

For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
​

Few Christians understand that God gave dominion over the earth to man. God was not in charge then, and He is not in charge now. He accomplishes His will with the help of humans. If He can get a human to believe something then God can do it.

As a just God, He could not change His mind, come down to earth and make things right. Instead He had to give us the entire OT, which essentially contains the instructions for some man to carry out and thus redeem us. Of course that would have been Jesus. God told him, a man, what to do and he did it perfectly. If Jesus were God, there would be no big deal. I mean, naturally God would obey Himself, but to get a man to do that by his own free will is beyond fantastic, but that's the Bible story in a nutshell.

The upshot: man got us into the mess and it had to be a man who got us out. It is patently wrong to think that only God could redeem us. The scriptures say it had to be a man.

Speaking of a just God, many religions claiming to be Christian within the past several decades have turned their back on the eternal torture hellfire doctrine.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

mainly because the majority of Christian's don't read and study the bible . they believe what they want to believe or believe what they are told to believe

I doubt that. It's kind of hard to prove that Christian's don't know their own scriptures. That would mean there are Christians who Do get it?

 

[Terry Sampson]

Trivial Reality Check:

Today is 07/14/2020. The OP was posted 03/13/2020. Not including today, this thread is 123 days old. That's 4 months and 1 day. No converts made as a result of this thread so far, and no end to the thread in sight.

 

[rrobs]

True, God was pleased, very pleased, with Jesus' sacrifice. God was in charge, so to speak, as He must have been with (in spirit) Adam as Adam grew familiar with his surroundings. But after the sin, Adam turning against God, God allowed man to continue in his own course, moving him out of that Garden. But then God is going to take the earth back in time and have God's glory reside with man on the earth.

While discussing the dreaded CV19 the other day, a friend, a good Christian, said, "Well, at least God is in charge." No, no, no!

God is not, nor ever was in charge of the earth. What is it about God giving Adam dominion over the earth that most of Christendom doesn't get? Do they think God kills babies for the devil's entertainment. They must, given that at every funeral of a 2 month old baby it is said, "God wanted another flower in heaven." Yikes! That's no different than saying, "God murdered little Johnny because He is selfish and doesn't care about Johnny's parents."

Of course, God's ultimate plan of a new heaven and earth will be brought to pass, but He must work with believing humans to make that plan a reality. The logos of John 1:1 is God's plan to redeem mankind from sin and death. God came up with the plan but He needed to convince some human to carry it out.

Making Jesus to be God makes it quite impossible to see the true greatness of that logos, God's plan. Somehow God had to convince a man to perfectly mimic everything written in the OT. He had to keep Israel going to preserve the bloodline and the instructions the redeemer would have to follow. That must have been akin to herding a million cats! What a story! But all that brilliance dulls in an instant when we make Jesus God.

How hard would it have been for God to obey Himself? What's the big deal for God to believe He'd raise Himself from the dead? It would make for a truly hum drum, boring story. But for a man, with like passions as the rest of us, to perfectly obey God every second of his life is beyond comprehension. Far and away, it makes the best story ever penned. How sad that so few can really appreciate what their God and their savior did for them.

 

[Soapy]

Luck not required. The only thing a non-trinitarian has to do is read what's written.

1Cor 15:21,

For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
​

Few Christians understand that God gave dominion over the earth to man. God was not in charge then, and He is not in charge now. He accomplishes His will with the help of humans. If He can get a human to believe something then God can do it.

As a just God, He could not change His mind, come down to earth and make things right. Instead He had to give us the entire OT, which essentially contains the instructions for some man to carry out and thus redeem us. Of course that would have been Jesus. God told him, a man, what to do and he did it perfectly. If Jesus were God, there would be no big deal. I mean, naturally God would obey Himself, but to get a man to do that by his own free will is beyond fantastic, but that's the Bible story in a nutshell.

The upshot: man got us into the mess and it had to be a man who got us out. It is patently wrong to think that only God could redeem us. The scriptures say it had to be a man.

The upshot: man got us into the mess and it had to be a man who got us out. It is patently wrong to think that only God could redeem us. The scriptures say it had to be a man.

Absolutely right!!

 

[YoursTrue]

Expand your thoughts on this for me... thanks.

Perhaps my attention span is short? You had many points, and in order for me to focus I have to isolate each point. Which is why I looked up about essence and still can't see how each person's "essence" equates to equality with each other and then make up one "being." When i have more time (because I'm reading the Bible soon) I will get back to that extensive post you made. Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

While discussing the dreaded CV19 the other day, a friend, a good Christian, said, "Well, at least God is in charge." No, no, no!

God is not, nor ever was in charge of the earth. What is it about God giving Adam dominion over the earth that most of Christendom doesn't get? Do they think God kills babies for the devil's entertainment. They must, given that at every funeral of a 2 month old baby it is said, "God wanted another flower in heaven." Yikes! That's no different than saying, "God murdered little Johnny because He is selfish and doesn't care about Johnny's parents."

Of course, God's ultimate plan of a new heaven and earth will be brought to pass, but He must work with believing humans to make that plan a reality. The logos of John 1:1 is God's plan to redeem mankind from sin and death. God came up with the plan but He needed to convince some human to carry it out.

Making Jesus to be God makes it quite impossible to see the true greatness of that logos, God's plan. Somehow God had to convince a man to perfectly mimic everything written in the OT. He had to keep Israel going to preserve the bloodline and the instructions the redeemer would have to follow. That must have been akin to herding a million cats! What a story! But all that brilliance dulls in an instant when we make Jesus God.

How hard would it have been for God to obey Himself? What's the big deal for God to believe He'd raise Himself from the dead? It would make for a truly hum drum, boring story. But for a man, with like passions as the rest of us, to perfectly obey God every second of his life is beyond comprehension. Far and away, it makes the best story ever penned. How sad that so few can really appreciate what their God and their savior did for them.

He made the earth. It is written He will restore the earth and get rid of all causes of unhappiness. Isaiah, Revelation and more indicate this. I agree if Jesus were Godintheflesh, he would not have the need to pray.

 

[Soapy]

Trivial Reality Check:

Today is 07/14/2020. The OP was posted 03/13/2020. Not including today, this thread is 123 days old. That's 4 months and 1 day. No converts made as a result of this thread so far, and no end to the thread in sight.

It is not for us to convert anyone. We can only speak as we see things: some right - some wrong!

The Tares grow and look exactly like the Wheat... only when it fruits can the difference be seen: only at the end will the truth be known completely!

I follow the line that Jesus is Holy sinless man: a replacement for the sinful Adam, the sin of whom Jesus redeem us from by his own blood (sinless life, scourging, death, and resurrection)

I believe that because of this Jesus now sits in office of God (Just as Joseph sat in the office of Pharoah) redeeming the whole of mankind back to God. All our own sin and destruction is now in our own hands; our own responsibility!!!

Finally, Jesus will select whom he will from among mankind to be in HIS KINGDOM... the rulership over creation and be its ‘Eternal Father’.

You will read that Satan is the STEWARD over creation still at this time:

• Woe to the world because the ruler of this world has come into his kingdom’...
• ‘It is mine to give to whom I will!’

These speak about Satan as ‘God’ of this order of things. He is STEWARD, the placeholder for a human ruler... Satan is an Angel and must be replaced by a true ruler:

• ‘The world to come will by no means be ruled by angels..!’

Satan is extremely angered and knows his time time is short and aims to destroy as many humans by filling them with sin against almighty God. He tried to get Jesus to bow down in worship to him and acquire the throne of David (Rulership over mankind) without the dreadful scourging and death that was to come... Jesus knee how painful this would be but still subdued himself to the fathers Will:

• ‘Father, if there could be another way... but not my will but yours [be done]’ ... and he sweated blood at the coming realisation: could he really die and his Father resurrect him... Was it really possible? If Jesus was God, how could he have doubted???

People, choose your camp but don’t expect to persuade anyone else... Dias I do: just post as best with the truth - don’t try to lie nor twist if you can’t explain: its not given to everyone to know the truth.., if you lie and then try to speak the truth, who is to believe you?????

Hold onto the hope that someone, anyone (1 in 99) will read the truth you speak and be persuaded - you might not even know it but it’s not for you to glorify yourself saying, ‘I persuaded him!!’:

• “No one comes to God except that God calls him” so that anyone should boast that they did the deed!!!

 

[exchemist]

Can I politely explain that ‘standard Trinitarian doctrine’ is false doctrine!

You will know from your history lessons that at one time the Christian CATHOLIC church was adamant that the Earth was the centre of the [solar system]... and you now know that that was completely false, too!

Trinitarians claim that their God is three persons... you know, like a Clover (or Shamrock) is a leaf (God) composed of three petals (persons). Now, you know that this analogy is total crap... why?

1. There are billions of clover leaves... There is only one True God!
   
2. All clover leaves have a stem... since it is part of the leaf, is it not a FOURTH element to take into consideration... a fourth ‘God’??
3. Is it disrespectful to your almighty God to equate him to a Leaf!!!

But when that analogy failed... they try an egg... three parts to an egg....! But whoa... that doesn’t work either:

1. The shell (one part... equal to the Father) is an enclosure for ...
2. The Yolk... (the Son)... which is surrounded by the...
3. White (the Holy Spirit)

Of course it doesn’t work either. But more to the fact that there is a FOURTH part to an egg.!!! Have you noticed that there is a skin (I’m not sure but I think it’s call Embullum ... don’t quote me on that but there is a lining against the shell. Shouldn’t this be a FOURTH GOD??

And don’t even speak of the ‘Ice, water, and steam’ GOD...!! You WILL EVENTUALLY notice that any molecule of the H2O is NOT in all three states AT THE SAME TIME...

Trinity FAILED AGAIN!!!!

So, please don’t argue about trinity Christianity because we know that it is false and you can always find it’s faults with ease.

When you argue about Christianity, please argue with the SCRIPTURES... and, respectfully, not misinterpretations, mistranslations and misunderstanding of the trinity fraternity.

In case you don’t know it already:

1. Jesus was a man born not from the seed of another man but made alive by the Holy Spirit of God just as the first man, Adam, was made
2. The body of both were made with inert material (Adam, the dust of the earth; Jesus, the seed of a woman)
3. Being so made, they both were sinless and holy: Son of God! (Adam: Luke3:38; Jesus: ‘The Holy Spirit shall overshadow [Mary] and the child to be born to you shall be called “Holy, the Son of God”)’
   
4. Jesus is called, ‘The second Adam’... or more emphatically, ‘The LAST ADAM’! He is a replacement for the fallen first Adam
5. Scriptures is littered with examples of the first Son sinning and another Son is brought up to replace him and take the PRIZE given to the MOST BELOVED SON OF THE FATHER (Scriptures terms this: ‘Firstborn’... sadly not too different from the chronological ‘First Born’). In Jewish terms, the first out of the womb, the ‘first born’ is also the ‘firstborn’... but if that one sins then another sin replaces him as the ‘firstborn’ (most beloved):
   1. Seth replaces Cain
   2. Isaac replaces Ishmael
   3. Jacob replaces Esau
   4. Joseph replaced ... (his elder brother)
   5. David replaces Saul (1st king of Israel)
   6. Solomon replaced ... (his elder brother)
   7. ...
   8. Jesus replaced Adam
   9. There are more but you can figure them out for yourself!!
6. Jesus was taught by his spirit Father (YHWH) what to say and do - and was dutiful in all things (the fullest and true meaning of ‘Son’!!!)
7. But he knew that he had a difficult job to perform.. like Abraham with Isaac, Jesus knee he had to be sacrificed by his Father .... in order to remove the sin of Adam... he remained dutiful dispute being tempted to ‘find another way!’. Jesus fulfilled his task having faith that his Father would resurrect him from the dead!!!
8. In accomplishing the sinless death and the eternal resurrection jesus removes the terms sin of Adam and we are now left with only our own sins to condemn us... but Jesus offered us hope if we followed his and his Father’s commands
9. Jesus was taken up to heaven and seated NEXT TO GOD... (he cannot BE GOD if he is NEXT TO God!!)
10. But now Jesus’ role is to restore sinlessness back to the whole world. He does so by use of the Holy Spirit of God (Holy Spirit of the Father). Consider the famine in Egypt and Joseph (Skinny to Jesus Christ) overseeing the restoration back to a harvest (sinlessness) by the power of the signet ring (the Holy Spirit) of the Pharoah (Akin to God The Father)
11. And finally, when all is restored, Jesus is rewarded with RULERSHIP OVER THE CREATED WORLD - he becomes FATHER to all selected humanity who believe in God and Christ
12. Think of these terms:
    1. ‘God’: Rule maker; sovereign; judge; greatest; worshipped one
    2. ‘Father’: Creator; Giver of life; rule maker; the head; King (Monarch)
    3. ‘Lord’: Master; overseer; shepherd; leader
13. Before Jesus, God was also ‘Lord’. He was all of the definition of ‘Lord’... but in these latter days he has delegated his Lordship to his Son so that his Son may be glorified by his creation. Do not claim that there are two Lords nor that both God and Jesus are the SAME Lord... a delegate does not claim to be the master who made him a delegate nor an emissary claim to be the king who sent him on his errand!
14. And notice in the book of Revelation that Jesus (the lamb) is NEVER WORSHIPPED... only ‘He who sat (sits) on the throne’ is worshipped. Jesus (and God) are rightfully both PRAISED, HONORED, and GLORIFIED... but only God is worshipped...

That is your opinion. There are others, held by the established denominations of Christianity for two thousand years.

 

[exchemist]

Glad you said according to the doctrine.

Well, that caveat applies to anything said about any religious stance, really.