If the tree in the garden represented a Knowledge of both good and evil, then evil always existed. It exists as an equal opposite of good. This is a natural law.....for everything there is an equal opposite.
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How God is not loving
- Thread starter The Transcended Omniverse
- Start date
If the tree in the garden represented a Knowledge of both good and evil, then evil always existed. It exists as an equal opposite of good. This is a natural law.....for everything there is an equal opposite.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
So how does this cosy analogy work when looking at events like the Holocaust? Genocides, wars, famines, natural disasters, etc?
Knowledge is different from actual presence.
Like you bought a phone today and know that some time in future it would become defective , does that mean the defect is already present somewhere inside or outside the phone?
Things do not have an equal and opposite ( chair , table , clock ,planets, universe....? ).
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Exactly, even the label, "Jehovah's Witness"! Jesus said we were to be witnesses of Him,
Acts 1:8 (ESV Strong's) 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
The food at the table you dine at is spoiled and has to be thrown out on occasion, or not cooked thru and has to be reheated. Maybe you need a new chef!
That's true, but you actually believe that that means, Jesus will let you chew on some spoiled meat until it's time for you to eat the good meat. That Jesus will allow you to eat some rotten tomatoes until He wants you to eat a ripe watermelon.
Witnesses believe that Jesus will actually let His people believe a false teaching, interpretation, understanding or whatever else you want to call it, for decades, because it isn't the time for them to know the truth.
Witnesses believe that Jesus will allow "error" to be taught in His only org, and let good people be kicked out of, or leave His org for not believing those "errors", just because it's not the "proper time" for the truth to be taught.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
So only the first part of that command is for you? Should it actually have been written like this,
"[Everybody] go therefore and make disciples of all nations, [but only] the anointed baptize them...."?
Where does the Bible say you can't baptize yourself?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Then why did Jesus warn so much about 'not' going to hell, if we are all going there any way?
The knowledge of evil is what was always in existence, as an equal opposite of good (which is demonstrated by what God called the tree.) By calling it "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad", it indicates that God wanted to be the one to decree what was good and what was not. That was not to be left up to humans. Anything that can be enacted has an equal opposite.
But evil had never been carried out (to our knowledge) until a spirit son rebelled, abusing his free will and becoming a devil (slanderer and a liar) and a satan (resister and manslayer)
He tricked the humans into giving him what he wanted....so evil knowledge, followed by evil acts, entered into the world and it has never been the same since.
Would you buy the phone, knowing that it had the potential or reputation for that defect? Did humans have any defects before Adam sinned? Was there a potential for a defect to come about at any given time?
All defects have causes....some of them unforeseen. Was Adam's sin foreseen?
They actually do when you take those things as a concept rather than a "thing". The opposite to sitting in a chair could be sitting on the floor. Eating at a table to eating on a picnic blanket. Knowing the time by looking at a clock, as opposed to not knowing what time it is because you don't have one. There are planets and there are stars...how do earth-bound humans tell the difference without a telescope? The universe is a material creation.....but there was a time when the universe did not exist...before creation, what was there? Was it not the opposite of what exists now?
Who was Jesus a witness for? (Revelation 3:14) His disciples promoted his teachings....but whose teachings were they really? (John 7:15-18)
Our brotherhood is the healthiest one on the planet.....we compliment the chef all the time.
We are doing as Christ instructed as is seen in every nation on earth. JW.ORG see for yourself.
Does it? Or does it mean that he just has his own time to reveal what we need and sometimes we get impatient and want to throw in a few spices? I have never eaten "spoiled" meat, just perhaps a bit rare at times. Its better than eating regurgitated, poisoned mush, served at the wrong table....that is the only one with a "self-serve" counter.
He allowed that in Israel too for his own reasons. He tests his people to see what motivates them and when a hiccup occurs, it is interesting to see who remains loyal and who defects. When its his time to correct things, he does. Don't forget that God operates in universal time, not earth time. A thousand years is like a day to him, so what is a decade? A few minutes? We learn patience from our mistakes. We are human and we make them like everyone else. How many mistakes and errors in judgment did Israel make? It didn't stop God from using them as his servants.
When Jesus uttered some pretty harsh words to his Jewish audience, they left off listening to him and went off in a huff. He didn't chase after them, but asked his apostles if they were going to leave too? Their reply was "whom shall we go away to? You have the sayings of everlasting life". (John 6:66-69) This is the same with those who leave our brotherhood, certain that we have it all wrong.....we don't chase after them either. But where do those people go? They go back to the world and get lost all over again. That is their choice.
That is hogwash. Like you would know....that is a very twisted version, but I guess it suits your agenda to believe whatever you wish...if people are deluded, it is because they want to be (2 Thess 2:9-12)......we are all in that boat....so lets see who ends up drowning, shall we?
Well if anyone should have been able to baptize himself, it was Jesus.....but did he? Why didn't he?
Who said it is only the anointed who baptize? Any of the shepherds can baptize new disciples. By the fact that they are appointed elders qualifies them to baptize.
Oh dear......please understand the difference between "hades" and "gehenna".....
Jesus warned about gehenna, because it was a permanent end to life. No one comes back from gehenna because God alone has the power to restore life by his spirit.
Jesus was filled with holy spirit and resurrected several people.....but he warned the Pharisees that "gehenna" awaited them. It awaits all who choose the wrong road.
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matthew 7:13-14NASB)
You see that the road to life is contrasted to the road that leads, not to "hell" but to "destruction".
"apōleia" means.....
- destroying, utter destruction
- of vessels
- a perishing, ruin, destruction." (Strongs)
What "hell" is this? It isn't "hades", its "gehenna". What does God do to those in "gehenna"? He destroys them....he doesn't torture them.
John 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son John 5:27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. Acts of the Apostles 10:42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. Acts of the Apostles 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.2 Timothy 4:1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
Whose words?
Matthew 10:28 doesn't say "Him". Who told you it did? @Deeje
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/10-28.htm
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/10-28.htm
Matthew 10:28...Mounce Interlinear...."28 · kai Do not mē be afraid phobeomai of apo those ho who can kill apokteinō the ho body sōma but de cannot mē kill apokteinō the ho soul psychē. Rather de mallon, fear phobeomai the ho one who can dynamai destroy apollymi both kai soul psychē and kai body sōma in en hell geenna."
Greek phrasing you know.....the reason why the majority of translations put "him" (sometimes even with a capital letter to indicate that this is speaking about God) in that verse. Who else can destroy the whole person?
Greek phrasing you know.....the reason why the majority of translations put "him" (sometimes even with a capital letter to indicate that this is speaking about God) in that verse. Who else can destroy the whole person?
Death kills the body and lots of bad choices kill the soul.
τὸν the
Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology
2532 [e] kai καὶ And
3361 [e] mē μὴ not
5399 [e] phobeisthe φοβεῖσθε you should be afraid
575 [e] apo ἀπὸ of
3588 [e] tōn τῶν those
615 [e] apoktennontōn ἀποκτεννόντων killing
3588 [e] to τὸ the
4983 [e] sōma σῶμα, body,
3588 [e] tēn τὴν the
1161 [e] de δὲ however
5590 [e] psychēn ψυχὴν soul
3361 [e] mē μὴ not
1410 [e] dynamenōn δυναμένων being able
615 [e] apokteinai ἀποκτεῖναι· to kill;
5399 [e] phobeisthe φοβεῖσθε you should fear
1161 [e] de δὲ however
3123 [e] mallon μᾶλλον rather
3588 [e] ton τὸν the [one]
1410 [e] dynamenon δυνάμενον being able
2532 [e] kai καὶ both
5590 [e] psychēn ψυχὴν soul
2532 [e] kai καὶ and
4983 [e] sōma σῶμα body
622 [e] apolesai ἀπολέσαι to destroy
1722 [e] en ἐν in
1067 [e] geennē γεέννῃ. hell.
These [ ] mean added as opinion.
Now you know. 
Oh well. Caught in a lie again they are.
Where is He here?
about (2), all (5), case* (3), cause* (1), circumstances* (3), companions* (8), condition* (1), experiences (2), far (1), followers* (1), former* (1), meat (1), one (6), one who (1), one* (1), others (4), others* (1), outsiders* (3), people (1), sight (1), some (7), some* (5), suitable (1), these (4), things (1), this (31), those (406), those who (17), together* (8), under* (1), welfare (1), what (47), what had happened (1), what* (1), which (14), who (52), whoever (8), whom (4).
I think it is safe to read "the" there. Not He. http://biblehub.com/greek/ton_3588.htm
Where is He here?
about (2), all (5), case* (3), cause* (1), circumstances* (3), companions* (8), condition* (1), experiences (2), far (1), followers* (1), former* (1), meat (1), one (6), one who (1), one* (1), others (4), others* (1), outsiders* (3), people (1), sight (1), some (7), some* (5), suitable (1), these (4), things (1), this (31), those (406), those who (17), together* (8), under* (1), welfare (1), what (47), what had happened (1), what* (1), which (14), who (52), whoever (8), whom (4).
I think it is safe to read "the" there. Not He. http://biblehub.com/greek/ton_3588.htm
What on earth is this raving about?
Who appointed Jesus as judge? On whose authority does Jesus act as judge? Whose teachings did Jesus come to impart? Whose worship did Jesus promote?
What is with this specious reasoning and debating about trivial words as if they alter the meaning of scripture?
Trolls get really boring after the first 5 minutes.
Who appointed Jesus as judge? On whose authority does Jesus act as judge? Whose teachings did Jesus come to impart? Whose worship did Jesus promote?
What is with this specious reasoning and debating about trivial words as if they alter the meaning of scripture?
Trolls get really boring after the first 5 minutes.
Funny! Why is it written many times that JESUS judges and in fact he or Jehovah does not commit anyone to Gehenna like you teach, but it is a person's own way which leads him or her there. Galatians 6:7 Matthew 15:14
You make Jehovah out to be a hangman. When it becomes obvious to you you will weep and gnash the teeth.
Oh @Deeje the irony. By your saying that Jesus is not judge, Jehovah is, even though it is written that Jesus is, is you indicating Jesus IS Jehovah.
I hope some day you can see the humor in it.
A million hours spent trying to convince people that Jesus is NOT Jehovah and then you imply he is. LOL Good!
I hope the Jehovah's Witnesses being funny can save them.
I hope some day you can see the humor in it.
A million hours spent trying to convince people that Jesus is NOT Jehovah and then you imply he is. LOL Good!
I hope the Jehovah's Witnesses being funny can save them.