How important is your ancestry in paganism?

[Politesse]

I want to take your quote, @Politesse , and expand on this a bit: we have responsibilities for others in the now, and our descendants in the future, as well as ourselves. It seems like in American culture, regardless of creed, origins, or any other factor, there seems to be little concern about the future generations, and little concern about others beyond the immediate family--if that far out from the self...

It's something I've troubled myself with for most of my life, and I still don't see how to work Those Who Are Not Here and Now, and Those Who Will Come After into my rituals and activities. Certainly those who came before deserve recognition and honor, but somehow I/we also need to recognize and honor those not here, and those who will be later.

I quite agree! I think we worry far too little about our own descendants.

I wonder if many cultures, especially indigenous peoples, manage to do this, or is it really as it seems to me, that almost no one does.

I certainly think that cultures with extended family lineages, who live with all generations of their family and expect to continue living in the same place for the next few, tend to be more conscious of the next generation (if one would dare to generalize about something so diverse in actualization). You might enjoy Robin Wall Kimmerer's Braiding Sweetgrass, which is a book on lived "ethnobotany" and which elevates this idea - the importance of indigenous culture-keeping for the benefit of our offspring - to a major theme. It's one of my favorite books of the decade so far.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I quite agree! I think we worry far too little about our own descendants.

I certainly think that cultures with extended family lineages, who live with all generations of their family and expect to continue living in the same place for the next few, tend to be more conscious of the next generation (if one would dare to generalize about something so diverse in actualization). You might enjoy Robin Wall Kimmerer's Braiding Sweetgrass, which is a book on lived "ethnobotany" and which elevates this idea - the importance of indigenous culture-keeping for the benefit of our offspring - to a major theme. It's one of my favorite books of the decade so far.

thanks...I'll add it to the list...

 

[Evie]

H

I would ask those persons, "Worship the gods of which ancestors?" Every person today has literally thousands of ancestors from whom they're directly descended. Going back just 10 generations one's ancestors number over 1,000. All through history tribes and populations continually emigrated and immigrated, fought and died off or assimilated, one group replacing another in the same region, not to mention syncretism time and again. Being from a given region does not necessarily mean one's family originated there but likely migrated for any number of reasons. Most Westerners certainly cannot claim any kind of purity.

I've done a fair amount of genealogical research on my biracial heritage. So far, the European side of my family I've traced back to the 10th century, the African side back only a couple of hundred years. Per those individuals, which gods should I worship?

And what should one do if they're adopted and know nothing of their birth family? Not to mention, without complete records, there's no way for anyone to know of breaks in their own bloodline - direct ancestor(s) who were adopted but those details lost.

How more simple to believe oneself a 'spiritual Jew'. A spiritual child of Abraham. The simple message of the Gospel of Christ. Free to Believe or not believe, no one is subject to being forced.

 

[Callisto]

H

How more simple to believe oneself a 'spiritual Jew'. A spiritual child of Abraham. The simple message of the Gospel of Christ. Free to Believe or not believe, no one is subject to being forced.

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Even better: honor the Gods to which one is drawn, not one because it's proselytized.

 

[VioletVortex]

No, it doesn't. That's pseudo-science.

Are you, as a spiritual person, discrediting pseudoscience? Spirituality in itself is a form of pseudoscience. That doesn't invalidate it, but in turn, I think that pseudoscience is just as valuable as mainstream science. Maybe more, since it isn't always backed by money.

 

[Evie]

.

Even better: honor the Gods to which one is drawn, not one because it's proselytized.

And you are fully entitled to believe that view.

 

[Callisto]

Yes, I know. And I do.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I consider Hinduism to be a pagan religion and ancestor remembrance is very important with us (Shrāddha). They are next to Gods and Goddesses.

 

[Evie]

I consider Hinduism to be a pagan religion and ancestor remembrance is very important with us (Shrāddha). They are next to Gods and Goddesses.

You are entitled to your belief, as everyone is.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That needs no reiteration. Of course, I am.

 

[Aupmanyav]

End of time with Hindus is about 150 trillion years away. I am least concerned with the Arc or the City of Christians. We have our own greats and our own books to follow.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is no birth or death for me. I am eternal.

"Na me mṛtyuśaṅkā na me jātibhedaḥ, pitā naiva me naiva mātā na janmaḥ;
na bandhur na mitraṃ gurunaiva śişyaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham.

Ahaṃ nirvikalpo nirākāra rūpo, vibhutvā ca sarvatra sarvendriyāṇaṃ;
na cāsangata naiva muktir na meyaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham."

5) I do not have fear of death, as I do not have death. I have no separation from my true self, no doubt about my existence, nor have I discrimination on the basis of birth. I have no father or mother, nor did I have a birth. I am not the relative, nor the friend, nor the guru, nor the disciple. I am indeed, that eternal auspicious bliss.

6) I am all pervasive. I am without any attributes, and without any form. I have neither attachment to the world, nor to liberation (mukti). I have no wishes for anything because I am everything, everywhere, every time, always in equilibrium. I am indeed, I am indeed, that eternal auspicious bliss.
Atma Shatkam - Wikipedia (Also known as Nirvana Shatakam - Six verses to enlightenment)

 

[Evie]

A

There is no birth or death for me. I am eternal.

"Na me mṛtyuśaṅkā na me jātibhedaḥ, pitā naiva me naiva mātā na janmaḥ;
na bandhur na mitraṃ gurunaiva śişyaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham.

Ahaṃ nirvikalpo nirākāra rūpo, vibhutvā ca sarvatra sarvendriyāṇaṃ;
na cāsangata naiva muktir na meyaḥ, cidānandarūpaḥ śivo'ham śivo'ham."

5) I do not have fear of death, as I do not have death. I have no separation from my true self, no doubt about my existence, nor have I discrimination on the basis of birth. I have no father or mother, nor did I have a birth. I am not the relative, nor the friend, nor the guru, nor the disciple. I am indeed, that eternal auspicious bliss.

6) I am all pervasive. I am without any attributes, and without any form. I have neither attachment to the world, nor to liberation (mukti). I have no wishes for anything because I am everything, everywhere, every time, always in equilibrium. I am indeed, I am indeed, that eternal auspicious bliss.
Atma Shatkam - Wikipedia (Also known as Nirvana Shatakam - Six verses to enlightenment)

And you have every right to believe as you choose.

 

[Callisto]

A

And you have every right to believe as you choose.

Why do you persist in telling people what they're already aware of? Yes, we all have the right to believe as we choose, including you.

 

[Evie]

T

They're not Christians so stop the preaching.

They will never be able to claim they were not told.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

T

They will never be able to claim they were not told.

Regardless, preaching is against the rules of the site:

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.

You are also derailing this thread. So I'd advise you to stop it.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

How important is your ancestry in paganism?


Answer; None. For those that believe in some form of paganism why should ancestry be of any matter? Maybe I don't understand the question? My ancestors were more into European 'witchcraft', then to polytheism probably (Celtic) due to to the area where my family ancestry was traced via genealogy search.

 

[Theist]

Well, my ancestors were all Catholic. You would have to go back 1000 years to find an ancestor who was pagan. Catholicism is just as much a part of my heritage as paganism. I left the Catholic Church because I just couldn't agree with the dogma, and not for any ethnic reasons. I honor the Roman gods of my ancestors and belong to several reconstructionist organizations. But the ancient Romans themselves were not against sacrificing to "foreign" Gods and Goddesses, so I don't see why that would be a problem.

 

[Tabu]

How important is ancestry in paganism?
This is how I understand it though I am not pagan , at least not in this birth.
There are two different and distinct terms
1. Kul devta : Your family deity (Kuladevata - Wikipedia)
2. Ishta devta : Your cherished deity ( Iṣṭa-devatā (Hinduism) - Wikipedia)
The understanding from BK knowledge ,since we believe in the rebirth of souls is that , Kul devta or Family deity belongs to your ancestry.
The Ishta devta or the cherished deity could be one who would have guided you and saved you from getting into troubles at some part of this journey of life.This may be why you feel an attachment to that deity soul.
Apart from that there are many symbolic deities, whom you invoke for specific favors like wealth , knowledge , power etc..

 

[Aupmanyav]

Maybe I should stop being polite and say what I really think. Like 'it is beyond belief that a human mind can possess such rot'. Would that be better?

That again is your view. That doe not make my view any less valid. Remember, being rude reflects on your elders, your religion, your education and your circumstances. In Hinduism these are known as 'samskaras'. It is not civil.